The ontological firewall between mind and body

2012-08-23 Thread Roger Clough


Hi Stephen P. King 

Pratt does not seem to understand that there is an ontological firewall between 
extended  (body)
and inextended (mind) entities. As far as I know, only monadology can wipe out 
that problem.


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
8/23/2012 
Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything 
could function.
- Receiving the following content - 
From: Stephen P. King 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-22, 16:29:22
Subject: Re: Pratt theory


Hi Richard!

Wonderful! Another pair of eyes looking at Pratt's work. This is progress! 
There are a couple open problems, such as how to model large networks of 
bisimulations but from my toy model study I think I have a solution to that 
one. The only technical problems are the formulation of a tensor product rule 
for arbitrary Monads (whose bodies/minds are the logical algebra and 
topological space couples that Pratt models using Chu_k spaces) and the 
forgetful version of residuation. I have some ideas on those too...

By the way, the entire question of particles/strings/etc. is reduced to a 
phenomenology/epistemology question that can be addressed using computational 
simulation modeling and considerations of observational bases. We only need to 
recover/derive the data not the stuff. The mereology of monads would follow 
the entanglement scheme of QM (for Chu_k ; k = complex number field) and allow 
us to use the pseudo-telepathy idea from quantum game theory to model 
bisimulation networks in a different basis. What I like about this the most is 
that it offers a completely new paradigm for investigations into physics and 
philosophy. See http://boole.stanford.edu/pub/ph94.pdf for even more 
discussions.


On 8/22/2012 4:04 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote:

Stephan,


Many thanks for this wonderful paper by Vaugh Pratt
http://boole.stanford.edu/pub/ratmech.pdf 


Pratt theory appears to replace Godellian theory.  
But Godellian theory manifests consciousness, so some think.
And Pratt theory seems to apply to the interaction of physical particles 
with each other and with the monads



Its axioms seem reasonable- but who am I to say.

1.A physical event a in the body A impresses its occurrence on a mental state x 
of the mind X, written a=|x. 
2.Dually, in state x the mind infers the prior occurrence of event a, written x 
|= a.
3.States may be understood as corresponding more or less to the possible worlds 
of a Kripke structure, 
and events to propositions that may or may not hold in di erent worlds of that 
structure.
4.With regard to orientation, impression is causal and its direction is that of 
time. 
5.Inference is logical, and logic swims upstream against time.
 Prolog’s backward-chaining strategy dualizes this by viewing logic as primary 
and time as swimming upstream against logic, 
  but this amounts to the same thing. The basic idea is that time and logic  ow 
in opposite directions.
6.The general nature of these inferences depends on the set K of values that 
events can impress on states.
7.Our  rst distinction between body and mind will be the trivial one of using 
di erent variables to range over these sets: A, B over bodies, X, Y over minds.
8.The second distinction will be in how the two kinds of sets transform into 
each other. 
9.Later we make a third distinction within the objects themselves by realizing 
the two kinds as Chu spaces with dual form factors: sets tall and thin, 
antisets short and wide.
10.We regard each point of the interval as a weighted sum of the endpoints, 
assuming nonnegative weights p, q normalized via p + q = 1, making each point 
the quantity p   q.
11.We shall arrange for Cartesian dualism to enjoy the same two basic 
connections and the two associated properties, with mind and body in place of  
1 and 1 respectively.
12.Minds transform with antifunctions or antisets, and sets are physical.
13.Mental antifunctions/sets copy and delete, whereas physical functions 
'identify and adjoin'.
14. For K the set (not  eld) of complex numbers, right and left residuation 
are naturally taken to be the respective products ...
corresponding to respectively inner product and its dual outer product in a 
Hilbert space


That The numbers ±1 are connected in two ways, algebraic and geometric 
suggests how the spatial separation of the monads is equivalent to an algebra. 
This also sounds much like a straight line with points along the line having 
the properties P,Q such that P+Q=1


Now this is interesting: Points have necessary existence, all being present 
simultaneously in the physical object A. 
15.States are possible, making a Chu space a kind of a Kripke structure 
[Gup93]: 
only one state at a time may be chosen from the menu X of alternatives.


Seems that divine intervention may be an assumption. I wonder who does the 
choosing. May I suggest Godellian consciousness?


16. the spaces A and B play the interaction game A   B, their tensor product.
17. The 

Re: The ontological firewall between mind and body

2012-08-23 Thread Stephen P. King

Hi Roger,

ontological firewall ? Could you elaborate on exactly what that 
means to you? BY Pratt, the difference between the two is just a matter 
of perspective, like the figure-ground. One cannot see both at the same 
time without cancelling both out. Pratt builds on how the mind and body 
have transformations that flow in opposite directions.



On 8/23/2012 10:00 AM, Roger Clough wrote:


Hi Stephen P. King
Pratt does not seem to understand that there is an ontological 
firewall between extended  (body)
and inextended (mind) entities. As far as I know, only monadology can 
wipe out that problem.




--
Onward!

Stephen

Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed.
~ Francis Bacon

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Re: Re: The ontological firewall between mind and body

2012-08-23 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King 

No, it's not just a matter of perspective,  and his philosophy is illogical.

The firewall is there to separate things that should not and can not possibly 
mix or
exhange anything between them by themselves.  Most prominently, in materialism, 
 it is the firewall between 
mind and brain. Nobody's ever been able to interface them, hence there is no 
feasible solution
mind and brain. 





Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
8/23/2012 
Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything 
could function.
- Receiving the following content - 
From: Stephen P. King 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-08-23, 12:56:53
Subject: Re: The ontological firewall between mind and body


Hi Roger,

?? ontological firewall ? Could you elaborate on exactly what that means to 
you? BY Pratt, the difference between the two is just a matter of perspective, 
like the figure-ground. One cannot see both at the same time without cancelling 
both out. Pratt builds on how the mind and body have transformations that flow 
in opposite directions.


On 8/23/2012 10:00 AM, Roger Clough wrote:



Hi Stephen P. King 
?
Pratt does not seem to understand that there is an ontological firewall between 
extended ?(body)
and inextended (mind) entities. As far as I know, only monadology can wipe out 
that problem.
?



-- 
Onward!

Stephen

Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed. 
~ Francis Bacon

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