Re: Can you think of an experiment to verify comp ?

Bruno was born 100 years too late, he would have predicted quantum mechanics. Saibal Citeren Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net: Hi Bruno Marchal Nothing is true, even comp, until it is proven by experiment. Can you think of an experiment to verify comp ? Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net

Re: Dennett and others on qualia

You can identify a particular qualia with certain computational states of algorithms. All you need to do to (in principle) decide if a system is experiencing the color red is to see if the right algorithm is being executed. Saibal Citeren Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com: On

Re: Dennett and others on qualia

Citeren Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com: On Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:58:33 PM UTC-4, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: You can identify a particular qualia with certain computational states of algorithms. All you need to do to (in principle) decide if a system is experiencing the color red

Re: Dennett and others on qualia

Citeren Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net: On 10/25/2012 5:16 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com: On Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:58:33 PM UTC-4, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: You can identify a particular qualia with certain computational states of

Re: Climate change

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 12/2/2012 10:56 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 12/2/2012 1:31 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 12/2/2012 12:56 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 12/1/2012 11:23 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 12/1/2012 6:42 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 12/1/2012 9:18 PM, meekerdb wrote:

Re: what is mechanism?

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 7/2/2012 6:15 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 5:35 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 2:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: To summarize our conversation up to this point:

Re: Oh no!

Citeren Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net: On 7/11/2012 4:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 10 Jul 2012, at 20:38, Stephen P. King wrote: Say that it is not so! http://www.technologyreview.com/view/428428/higgs-boson-may-be-an-imposter-say-particle/?ref=rss -- Given the complexity of

Re: The Unreality of Time

Citeren Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 30 Jul 2012, at 19:57, meekerdb wrote: On 7/30/2012 2:19 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: The Boltzman brains , according with what i have read, are completely different beasts. Boltzman pressuposes, that , since no random arrangement of matter is

Re: Why AI is impossible

Life is an ill defined phenomenological concept. Saibal Citeren Roger rclo...@verizon.net: Hi Evgenii Rudnyi This is not going to make you computer folks happy, sorry. Life is whatever can experience its surroundings, nonlife cannot do so. That's the difference. Intelligence requires the

Re: Is convergence a unique test for pi ?

Citeren Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 18 Aug 2012, at 17:19, Roger wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal Yes, you can square the square root of any number to test its accuracy, but there are a variety of algorithms used to calculate pi. Which is correct ? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

Re: Simple proof that our intelligence transcends that of computers

It's a simple logical paradox, an AI could play the same game by asking: Is the following statement true? 'This statement can't be confirmed to be true solely by utilizing a human brain'. Saibal Citeren benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com: In this post I present an example of a

Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

It may be too late to do someting about global warming. In the early 1980s we had plenty of time to act, today we have to accept at least 2°C temperature rise and hope that will not cause big problems, but even that will require taking drastic measures. You don't need catastrophic effects on

Re: Nonsense!

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 9/24/2012 9:28 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/24/2012 12:02 PM, John Clark wrote: Thus the moon does not exist when you are not looking at it. Hi John, I expected better from you! This quip is based on the premise that you are the only

Re: Nonsense!

Citeren Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net: On 9/24/2012 12:02 PM, John Clark wrote: Thus the moon does not exist when you are not looking at it. Hi John, I expected better from you! This quip is based on the premise that you are the only observer involved. Such nonsense! Considering

Re: Nonsense!

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 9/24/2012 8:02 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 9/24/2012 9:28 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/24/2012 12:02 PM, John Clark wrote: Thus the moon does not exist when you are not looking at it. Hi John, I

Re: Nonsense!

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 9/24/2012 8:57 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/24/2012 11:17 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 9/24/2012 8:02 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 9/24/2012 9:28 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/24/2012 12:02 PM, John Clark

Re: Re: Nonsense!

Citeren Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net: Hi smitra If the moon doesn't exist, how were we able to land men on it ? Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/25/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: smitra

Re: Nonsense!

defines at least partially the algorithm that is running at any moment. So, the fact that things don't exist if we don't look may be the very reason why we can exist at all. Saibal Citeren Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net: Hi smitra If the moon doesn't exist, how were we able to land

Re: Nonsense!

Citeren Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net: On 9/25/2012 11:46 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Hi Roger, My idea about this is that the Moon and that we landed on it exists in parallel with the Moon not existing or existing but we not landing on it, or we already having a base on the oon

Re: Scott Aaronson vs. Max Tegmark

Citeren Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com: On 27 March 2014 19:11, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 26 Mar 2014, at 22:30, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thursday, March 27, 2014, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 05:06:46PM +1100,

Re: Climate models

It is the belief that the scentists can be trusted to do the research they are supposed to do in a scientifically responsible way, vs. the belief in the conspiracy theory that the entire scientific field has been hijacked by ultra left wing environmental pressure groups. Saibal Citeren

Re: Moslem peace march ?

Citeren John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com: On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:\ After the Boston bombings, what I'd like to see is a Moslem Peace March. A tbhousand man moslem peace march. I would much rather see a thousand Muslims wise up and publicly

Hard Problem not hard at all?

It is whatever an algorithm is computing. All the information is in the computational state. If you have pain in your knee then exactly what you are experiencing must be unambiguously present in the computational state of your brain. Saibal -- You received this message because you are

Re: Rationals vs Reals in Comp

See here: http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~zeilberg/mamarim/mamarimPDF/real.pdf Saibal Citeren Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com: A quote from someone on Facebook. Any comments? Computers can only do computations for rational numbers, not for real numbers. Every number in a computer is

Re: Hard Problem not hard at all?

Any aesthetic phenomena or for that matter anything else we experience is described by the known laws of physics which tells you what matters is the way information is processed. So, I'm not conviced there really exists a well defined problem here with consciousness. We're told by philosphers

Re: Rationals vs Reals in Comp

Perhaps one should define things such that it can be impolemented by any arbitrary finite state machine, no mater how large. Then, while there may not be a limit to the capacity of finite state machines, each such machine has a finite capacity, and therefore in none of these machines can one

Re: That the mind continues to function after brain activity has ceased

So, why do I have a brain if I don't need one? Why don't I just float away while my body continues to type this message? Saibal Citeren Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net: That the mind continues to function after brain activity has ceased The documented fact that people have had near death

Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to function suggests its ...

If you feel pain then that feeling is directly related to the deaths of the creatures who didn't become your ancestors because of a lack of feeling for that same pain. So, you are actually experiencing the deaths of these creatures. Saibal Citeren John Mikes jami...@gmail.com: Russell and

Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to function suggests its ...

Thought experiment: Suppose that someone has never experienced touching hot objects before. As long as this person does not find out that touching hot objects is painful, either by touching hot objects himself or by being told that it is painful, he will be in a superposition of two sectors of

Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to function suggests its ...

Citeren Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 23 May 2013, at 00:05, meekerdb wrote: On 5/22/2013 2:49 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Thought experiment: Suppose that someone has never experienced touching hot objects before. As long as this person does not find out that touching hot objects

Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to function suggests its ...

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 5/23/2013 7:07 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 23 May 2013, at 00:05, meekerdb wrote: On 5/22/2013 2:49 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Thought experiment: Suppose that someone has never experienced touching

Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to function suggests its ...

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 5/23/2013 12:51 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/5/23 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On 5/23/2013 11:27 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/5/23 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On

Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to function suggests its ...

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 5/23/2013 5:20 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 5/23/2013 12:51 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/5/23 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On 5/23/2013 11:27 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:

Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to function suggests its ...

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 5/23/2013 4:31 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 5/23/2013 7:07 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 23 May 2013, at 00:05, meekerdb wrote: On 5/22/2013 2:49 PM,

Re: That the mind works even after the brain ceases to function suggests its ...

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 5/23/2013 4:31 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 5/23/2013 7:07 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 23 May 2013, at 00:05, meekerdb wrote: On 5/22/2013 2:49 PM,

Re: Fictionalism!

They exist if there is a consistent description of them. Even within conventional physics there is room for that, as discussed recently on this list. In the MWI or in eternal inflation models, everything that is not strictly forbidden by the conservation laws will happen. Flying pink

Re: Fictionalism!

But if such a real physical pink elephant can't exist, that means that it is not a logically consistent concept to begin with. If one starts from a logically consistent system, then one can always find a physical system whose equations of motion realize it, it will then exist in a generic

Re: On Global Warming----The sun is getting a little hotter

Not assumed to be caused, but known to be caused. The science is clear, it's only that the vast majority of the population is science illiterate to the point that many people with university degrees in economics, engineering etc. don't know much about physics and are susceptible to the same

Re: How to protect your computer from spying by the IRS and Eric H. Holder, Jr.

Why not use an anonymous proxy server? Also you can communicate with people using a shared email address by uploading encrypted texts in the drafts folder. Saibal Citeren spudboy...@aol.com: Dr. Mikes, question- Do you feel that the search engine duckduckgo really prevents spying by

Re: Everett and Einstein

Well, there is no point in living if you don't want to live. And if you don't live from some time onward, you still live at earlier times. In fact, you are alive today, because you are going to die in the future (otherwise the probability of being alive today would be vanishingly small). In

That congressman would have reported him to the FBI, he would have been prosecuted and convicted for espionage without that trial getting much media attention. Saibal Citeren Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net: Whistleblower: Bradley Manning Manning could have done himself a favor by not

Re: Question for the QM experts here: quantum uncertainty of the past

Citeren Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au: On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 05:26:41PM -0700, Pierz wrote: I need clarification of the significance of quantum theory to determining the *past*. I remember having read or heard that the past itself is subject to quantum uncertainty. Something like

Re: Question for the QM experts here: quantum uncertainty of the past

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 8/14/2013 7:48 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au: On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 05:26:41PM -0700, Pierz wrote: I need clarification of the significance of quantum theory to determining the *past*. I remember having

Re: Question for the QM experts here: quantum uncertainty of the past

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 8/14/2013 4:43 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 8/14/2013 7:48 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au: On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 05:26:41PM -0700, Pierz wrote: I need

Re: Question for the QM experts here: quantum uncertainty of the past

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 8/14/2013 6:41 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: I guess I don't understand that. You seem to be considering a simple case of amnesia - all purely classical - so I don't see how MWI enters at all. The probabilities are just ignorance uncertainty.

Re: Question for the QM experts here: quantum uncertainty of the past

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 8/15/2013 6:18 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 8/14/2013 6:41 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: I guess I don't understand that. You seem to be considering a simple case of amnesia - all purely classical - so I

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Supporting the Nazis was the right thing to for the Arabs back then. In fact, in India you had a similar sentiment, some people wanted to support the Japanese in order to liberate their country. This is not something the typical Westerner knows about, but in India these people have a lot of

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Also I believe that 9/11 was a good thing, albeit it would have been better if Bin Laden had focusses only on legitimate military targets like the White House, the US Congress, the Senate and the Pentagon. Citeren Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net: The Nazi history of the terrorist Muslim

Re: The History of the Muslim Brotherhood in 3 minutes

No, that's not going to gain you any more understanding than watching a Goebbels propaganda movie about what's happening in Germany. Roger Clough = Our very own Goebbels Citeren Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net: To understrand what's going on in Egypt, see The History of the Muslim

Re: Question for the QM experts here: quantum uncertainty of the past

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 8/16/2013 4:57 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 8/15/2013 6:18 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 8/14/2013 6:41 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: I guess I don't understand that.

Re: Question for the QM experts here: quantum uncertainty of the past

Citeren Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com: 2013/8/21 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 8/20/2013 5:26 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 8/16/2013 4:57 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 8/15/2013 6:18 AM,

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

spudb...@aol.com: I do not see why Roger, needs, politics in this forum, but, so be it. Smitra expresses a view that decides the US, has to be ruined for the evil it has conspired against the wonderful, and innocent, people's of the 3rd world. I am guessing that when the ISI strikes India

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

In these sorts of polls the proper context is missing. Then you can easily fall in the same trap as the Germans who supported Hitler. In Egypt you actually see this very clearly, a large fraction of the population who are against the Muslim Brotherhood are saying that the hundreds of dead

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

With hindsight 9/11 was a good thing to have happened, it ended up exposing the fascist Neo-Cons for what they were. The Neo-Con ideology was defeated on the battlegrounds of Iraq. It is sad that it had to happen that way with all the innocent victims in the US and Iraq, but I believe that the

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

If I think that: With hindsight 9/11 was a good thing to have happened, it ended up exposing the fascist Neo-Cons for what they were. The Neo-Con ideology was defeated on the battlegrounds of Iraq. It is sad that it had to happen that way with all the innocent victims in the US and Iraq, but I

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

If I think that: With hindsight 9/11 was a good thing to have happened, it ended up exposing the fascist Neo-Cons for what they were. The Neo-Con ideology was defeated on the battlegrounds of Iraq. It is sad that it had to happen that way with all the innocent victims in the US and Iraq, but I

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

https://sites.google.com/site/faydowkerarchive2003/home/mariarosario The modern history of Guatemala was decisively shaped by the U.S.-organized invasion and overthrow of the democratically elected regime of Jacobo Arbenz in June 1954. Since that time, while Guatemala has remained securely

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Because I at least explain why that's the case. Agree or disagree with me, but it's something that can be debated. You, on the other hand, are an ideologue who is not capable of reading past the first sentence if that looks like contradicting whatever you believe in. Citeren John Clark

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Citeren spudboy...@aol.com: Chris and Smitra are performing a collective filtering of history, in which barbarism is merely a feature of capitalism while jolly, socialists, are completely ignored because, if a socialist tortures, or slaugters the innocent, that's different. Because

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 8/25/2013 9:36 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: If I think that: With hindsight 9/11 was a good thing to have happened, it ended up exposing the fascist Neo-Cons for what they were. That's sort of like saying it's good that the Nazi's killed all those

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Morality is an ill defined concept, you can just as well invoke religion. I never appeal to any notion of morality, when I say that something is good, then I have some specific outcome in mind. I think I did explain that. An alien visiting the Earth may well conclude that the right thing to

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Chris, No I don't need to invoke morality, the price I pay for that is to have to explain explicity what I mean by a good outcome, what measure I choose here to determine this, etc. 9/11 was a good thing to have happened, despite the perpetrators not having good intentions, i.e. the

RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Hi Chris, you are saying that: No, Saibal you invoke the moral quality of the act by describing it as a good thing But this is exactly why I want to avoid this whole morality thing, it comes with a baggage that then implies things that I don't support. I can think that 9/11 was a good

Re: Is Determinism Falsifiable?

It is difficult to falsify, e.g. it is not strictly correct to say that local determinism has been falsified, as 't Hooft explains here: http://arxiv.org/abs/1308.1007 Saibal Citeren Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com: Is it scientific? -- You received this message because you are

Re: Question for the QM experts here: quantum uncertainty of the past

Yes, that's also my favorite way of thinking about this, you are precisely that what you experience at any one time, and that may well include memories of the past. What was discussed earlier in this thread about decoherence, is only revelevant to explaining why you don't get macroscopic

Re: Is Determinism Falsifiable?

I think 't Hooft has argued in some other paper that one should consider the set of possible initial states that the early universe could have been in, which then restricts the freedom of observers today. So, he actually uses this issue to argue why superdeterminsim isn't all that strange, but

Re: Aaronson's paper

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 9/28/2013 7:20 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 12:47:28PM +1300, LizR wrote: On 23 September 2013 13:16, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: For me, my stopping point is step 8. I do mean to summarise the intense

Re: Aaronson's paper

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 9/29/2013 6:26 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 9/28/2013 7:20 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 12:47:28PM +1300, LizR wrote: On 23 September 2013 13:16, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

Citeren Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303492504579115310362925246.html *Humans 1, Robots 0* Cashiers Trump Self-Checkout Machines at the Grocery Store Computers seem to be replacing humans across many industries, and we're all getting very

Re: WSJ Article On Why Computers Make Lame Supermarket Cashiers

Citeren Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 08 Oct 2013, at 22:22, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303492504579115310362925246.html *Humans 1, Robots 0* Cashiers Trump Self-Checkout Machines at the Grocery

Re: For John Clark

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 10/25/2013 9:08 AM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com mailto:allco...@gmail.com wrote: Be consistent, reject MWI, or ask *the same question* about the probability of *you* (who is you ?

Re: What do you do if your Obamacare is too expensive ?

What will happen is that the focus of the right wing extremists in the US on sabotaging the health care law, will lead to a Hillary being elected in 2016, a Democratic controlled House of Representatives and a fillibuster proof Democratic majority in the Senate. And that with a strong left

Re: What do you do if your Obamacare is too expensive ?

In the US they waited too long and they now have a very inefficient system, they pay twice as much per capita compared to most other Western countries for healthcare. But then that also means that you now have this huge health care industry in the US comprising of insurance companies, private

Re: Everything is real or unreal?

Quantum mechanics is only an approximate description of the Mathematical Multiverse. The only things that are real are the elements of that Multiverse, which are algorithms (some of them describe people in some computational state). While the details have yet to be worked out (I have been

Solution to the OM problem

On this list we've talked about observer moments (OM) quite a lot, but I always found the notion that some pattern represents a conscious state to be problematic. I have written up a draft of a paper, see here: http://arxiv.org/abs/1009.4472 One can use the reasoning in the end of the paper

Re: JOINING: Travis Garrett

Welcome! I haven't been active on this list lately. Your article looks very interesting, I'll read it in detail. Saibal Citeren Travis Garrett travis.garr...@gmail.com: Hi everybody, My name is Travis - I'm currently working as a postdoc at the Perimeter Institute. I got an email

Re: Solution to the OM problem

I wrote the paper to motivate the problem and show how QM is relevant even though it is not relevant from the usual physics perspective. I.e. decoherence prevents quantum phenomena from being relevant from the mechanistic point of view and you are then led to approach the problem from the

QTI is trivially false

QTI is trivially false, because it is a paradoxical result, similar to an alleged proof that 1 + 1 = 3. You don't need to check to proof to see that it must be wrong. The reason why QTI is a paradoxical is because we have a finite memory. The class of all observers that can represent you is

Re: QTI is trivially false

I think we are now making hidden assumptions about the nature of time, namely that it really exists, and then we are trying to argue that you can still have immortality (in different senses). However, it is far more natural to assume that time does not exist and then you get immortality (in

Re: Reading The Theory of Nothing

I think that in this discussion one is assuming that the classical picture of an OM applies and that then leads to the false notion that you need to look at a sequence of states. But this is completely false. Obviously the brain is effectively classical, but classicality from quantum dynamics

Re: Should Math Be Taught in School

By not teaching math to kids, we are dumbing down the next generation. Of course, most people do not have a talent for math, but then most people do not have a talent for writing either. A few hundered years ago, only a small fraction of the population was taught to read and write. If you had

Re: David Eagleman on CHOICE

My opinion is that quantum mechanics is essential to define an OM, despite it being in the classical domain. The computational state of an AI is not the precise physical state of the system that generates the AI, it is some coarse grained picture of it. So, if you have a classical computer,

Re: David Eagleman on CHOICE

I can't answer for Brent, but my take in this is that what matters is whether the state of the system at any time represents a computation being performed. So, this whole duration requirment is not necessary, a snapshot of the system contains information about what program is being run. So, it

Re: David Eagleman on CHOICE

Ok, so this is where I would disagree. It only seems that to define a computation you need to look at the time evolution, because a snapshot doesn't contain enough information about the dynamics of the system. But here one considers all of the enormous amount of information stored in the

Re: Movie Graph Argument

I explained my argument on this here: http://arxiv.org/abs/1009.4472 Saibal Citeren Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com: On Dec 12, 11:43 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/12/2011 6:28 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: I don't think a cartoon is conscious either.  But I was

Re: Movie Graph Argument

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 12/16/2011 8:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: If you think of a quantum multiverse, then that argument would work if the brain is a quantum computer. If it is classical, its states can be considered as having been prepared in the classical base, But

Re: Movie Graph Argument

Citeren Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 21 Dec 2011, at 14:06, David Nyman wrote: On 21 December 2011 09:58, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: Because Maudlin assumes a single universe physics, Where? It assumes only the Turing emulabilty. Its the only way to get

Re: Movie Graph Argument

Citeren Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 21 Dec 2011, at 23:08, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: Citeren Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 21 Dec 2011, at 14:06, David Nyman wrote: On 21 December 2011 09:58, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: Because Maudlin assumes a single

Citeren Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 13 Jun 2014, at 05:06, LizR wrote: On 13 June 2014 05:11, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 12 Jun 2014, at 00:30, LizR wrote: So a person would be a garden of forking paths laid out by deterministic physics, within which their conscious

Re: QM and oil droplets

Who knows? Perhaps the De Broglie-Bohm enthousiast can get some further insights from this experiments allowing them to e.g. predict subtle patterns in interference phenomena that shouldn't be there acording to orthodox quantum mechanics. De Broglie-Bohm theory looks to me a bit like the old

Re: The dovetailer disassembled

On 30-04-2015 09:19, Bruce Kellett wrote: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 30 April 2015 at 13:20, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote: The way I understand it, nothing happens in Platonia. Which is to say nothing ever happens. The real question is why we think stuff is 'happening'.

Re: What does the MGA accomplish?

On 12-05-2015 03:54, Bruce Kellett wrote: As stated above, counterfactual correctness is not required to reproduce just the one original conscious moment. This is where I disagree from the others in this discussion group. Imagine someone having some definite experience. Given the

Re: The dovetailer disassembled

On 01-05-2015 17:59, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Apr 2015, at 17:07, smitra wrote: On 30-04-2015 09:19, Bruce Kellett wrote: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 30 April 2015 at 13:20, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote: The way I understand it, nothing happens in Platonia. Which

Re: 1P/3P CONFUSION again and again

You can just define personal identity as a single observer moment, which includes any memories of the outcomes of the duplication experiments, so the string of the W's and M'should be included in the definition of you. You can also invent a machine that creates a consciousness that has false

Re: MWI question for the physicists...

MWI is not realistic in the sense you need to define it here. I.e. you need to assume that whether or not a photon moves through a polarizer depends on its hidden variable and the setting of the polarizer it is moving through, not the setting of the other polarizer or other hidden variables of

Re: Vast Methane releases in Arctic Ocean

There are only a finite number of things we can experience. The brain can only be found in a finite number of physically distinguishable states, and only a small fraction of these states can be considered to represent the conscious experience of some given person. So this eternal Garden or

Re: Responsibility and Personhood

Responsibility/culpability is a feature of our own programming allowing us to modify the program of our closely related copies, including ourselves. If we have precise control of the source code of an AI then this notion is rather pointless as we can directly modify the code. However, an AI

Re: What day is it?

On 07-10-2015 02:04, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 4:35 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 00:06, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 7:51 am, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 1:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at. I meant that if the normal

Re: What day is it?

On 07-10-2015 07:20, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 8:11 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 02:04, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 4:35 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 00:06, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 7:51 am, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 1:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: I'm

Re: What day is it?

On 07-10-2015 12:52, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Oct 2015, at 05:11, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 02:04, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 4:35 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 00:06, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 7:51 am, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 1:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote