RE: computationalism and supervenience

2006-09-02 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Peter Jones writes: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Peter Jones writes: I'm not necessarily talking about every possible computation being implemented by every physical system, just (at least) the subset of finite computations implemented by a physical computer or brain. I

Re: computationalism and supervenience

2006-09-02 Thread Brent Meeker
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Peter Jones writes: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Peter Jones writes: I'm not necessarily talking about every possible computation being implemented by every physical system, just (at least) the subset of finite computations implemented by a physical

RE: Counterfactual?

2006-09-02 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Peter Jones writes: Physical determinism is the idea that the future is genrated form the persent by rigid physical laws. As opposed to the idea that the future is fixed becasue it is already there, like the end of a movie which is already in the can , and need not bear any logical

RE: Counterfactual?

2006-09-02 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Peter Jones writes: But is there any sense in which we as humans are any more free than billiard balls or dice beyond the fact that we *feel* we are free? There may be. For instance, freedom might be a combination of indeterminism and rational self-control. I have a strong feeling

Re: Counterfactual?

2006-09-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 31-août-06, à 12:59, Stathis Papaioannou a écrit : But is there any sense in which we as humans are any more free than billiard balls or dice beyond the fact that we *feel* we are free? I have a strong feeling that my free will is not randomness and not determinism: is there

Re: Arithmetical Realism

2006-09-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 31-août-06, à 22:20, 1Z a écrit : Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 29-août-06, à 20:45, 1Z a écrit : The version of AR that is supported by comp only makes a commitment about mind-independent *truth*. The idea that the mind-independent truth of mathematical propositions entails the

Re: Arithmetical Realism

2006-09-02 Thread David Nyman
Bruno Marchal wrote: Please I have never said that primary matter is impossible. Just that I have no idea what it is, no idea what use can it have, nor any idea how it could helps to explain quanta or qualia. So I am happy that with comp it has necessarily no purpose, and we can abandon

Re: computationalism and supervenience

2006-09-02 Thread 1Z
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Peter Jones writes: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Peter Jones writes: The requirement that computations require counterfactuals isn't ad hoc, it comes from the observation that computer programmes include if-then statements. The idea that

Re: Arithmetical Realism

2006-09-02 Thread David Nyman
1Z wrote: Necessary truth doesn't entail necessary existence unless the claims in question are claims about existence. If one claims (which I don't BTW) that something is 'necessarily true' *independent of contingent existence* then I think for this to be in any way coherent, one must be

Re: Arithmetical Realism

2006-09-02 Thread 1Z
David Nyman wrote: 1Z wrote: Necessary truth doesn't entail necessary existence unless the claims in question are claims about existence. If one claims (which I don't BTW) that something is 'necessarily true' *independent of contingent existence* then I think for this to be in any way

Re: Arithmetical Realism

2006-09-02 Thread David Nyman
1Z wrote: Statements, concepts and beliefs must be contingently instantiated. That doesn't mean that their truths-values are logially contingent. I'm not sure that in a world of strictly contingent existence one can establish a 'logical necessity' that is independent of 'contingent

Re: Arithmetical Realism

2006-09-02 Thread 1Z
David Nyman wrote: 1Z wrote: Statements, concepts and beliefs must be contingently instantiated. That doesn't mean that their truths-values are logially contingent. I'm not sure that in a world of strictly contingent existence one can establish a 'logical necessity' that is

unsubscribe

2006-09-02 Thread Jonathan Colvin
Please remove from list...too much traffic..not enough time... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com To

Re: Arithmetical Realism

2006-09-02 Thread David Nyman
1Z wrote: Why should the *truth* of a statement be dependent on the *existence* of an instance of it ? What I mean is that - for a 'thoroughgoing contingentist' - 'statements', 'concepts', 'truths', 'referents' and anything else whatsoever can exist solely in virtue of their actual contingent

Re: Arithmetical Realism

2006-09-02 Thread 1Z
David Nyman wrote: 1Z wrote: Why should the *truth* of a statement be dependent on the *existence* of an instance of it What I mean is that - for a 'thoroughgoing contingentist' - 'statements', 'concepts', 'truths', 'referents' and anything else whatsoever can exist solely in virtue of

Re: Arithmetical Realism

2006-09-02 Thread David Nyman
1Z wrote: Indeed, but the contingentist doesn't have to regard truth as something that exists. Fair enough, but even the contingentist needs to express herself intelligibly without recourse to a constant blizzard of scare quotes. So she still needs something that FAPP corresponds to

RE: computationalism and supervenience

2006-09-02 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes: [Stathis Papaioannou] No, it follows from the idea that anything can be a computation. I think this is trivially obvious, like saying any string of apparently random characters is a translation of any English sentence of similar or shorter length, and if