Re: Asifism

2007-06-14 Thread Torgny Tholerus
Bruno Marchal skrev: Le 07-juin-07, 15:47, Torgny Tholerus a crit : What is the philosophical term for persons like me, that totally deny the existence of the consciousness? An eliminativist. "Eliminativist" is not a good term for persons like me, because that term implies that

Re: Asifism

2007-06-14 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2007/6/14, Torgny Tholerus [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Bruno Marchal skrev: Le 07-juin-07, à 15:47, Torgny Tholerus a écrit : What is the philosophical term for persons like me, that totally deny the existence of the consciousness? An eliminativist. Eliminativist is not a good term for persons

Re: Asifism

2007-06-14 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On 14/06/07, Quentin Anciaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eliminativist is not a good term for persons like me, because that term implies that you are eliminating an important part of reality. But you can't eliminate something that does not exists. If you don't believe in ghosts, are you

Re: Asifism

2007-06-14 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2007/6/14, Stathis Papaioannou [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 14/06/07, Quentin Anciaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eliminativist is not a good term for persons like me, because that term implies that you are eliminating an important part of reality. But you can't eliminate something that

Re: How would a computer know if it were conscious?

2007-06-14 Thread David Nyman
On Jun 14, 3:47 am, Colin Hales [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4) Belief in 'magical emergence' qualitative novelty of a kind utterly unrelated to the componentry. Hi Colin I think there's a link here with the dialogue in the 'Asifism' thread between Bruno and me. I've been reading Galen

Re: Asifism

2007-06-14 Thread Torgny Tholerus
Quentin Anciaux skrev: 2007/6/14, Stathis Papaioannou [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 14/06/07, Quentin Anciaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure but I still don't understand what could mean 'to know', 'to believe' for an entity which is not conscious. Also if you're not conscious,

Re: Asifism

2007-06-14 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2007/6/14, Torgny Tholerus [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Quentin Anciaux skrev: 2007/6/14, Stathis Papaioannou [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 14/06/07, Quentin Anciaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure but I still don't understand what could mean 'to know', 'to believe' for an entity which is not conscious.

Re: Asifism

2007-06-14 Thread David Nyman
On Jun 14, 12:19 pm, Quentin Anciaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure but I still don't understand what could mean 'to know', 'to believe' for an entity which is not conscious. Also if you're not conscious, there is no 'me', no 'I', so there exists no 'person like you' because then you're not a

Re: Asifism

2007-06-14 Thread Torgny Tholerus
Quentin Anciaux skrev: 2007/6/14, Torgny Tholerus [EMAIL PROTECTED]: If a rock shows the same behavior as a human being, then you should be able to use the same words (know, believe, think) to describe this behaviour. If the rock know something and it behaves like it knows it, then

Re: Asifism

2007-06-14 Thread David Nyman
On Jun 14, 2:08 pm, Torgny Tholerus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the rock does *not* know anything, *but* the rock behaves as if it knows it, then it is reasonable to say that the rock knows it. Ah, but of course it is *not* reasonable to say this. You account is an 'action-only' account.

Re: Asifism

2007-06-14 Thread Quentin Anciaux
On Thursday 14 June 2007 15:08:15 Torgny Tholerus wrote: Quentin Anciaux skrev: 2007/6/14, Torgny Tholerus [EMAIL PROTECTED]: If a rock shows the same behavior as a human being, then you should be able to use the same words (know, believe, think) to describe this behaviour. If the

Re: How would a computer know if it were conscious?

2007-06-14 Thread John Mikes
Colin and partners: To the subject question: how do you know your own conscious state? (It all comes back to my 'ceterum censeo': what are we talking about as 'consciousness'? - if there is a concensus-ready definition for open-minded use at all). And a 2nd question: May I ask: what is

Re: How would a computer know if it were conscious?

2007-06-14 Thread David Nyman
On Jun 14, 4:46 am, Stathis Papaioannou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course all that is true, but it doesn't explain why neurons in the cortex are the ones giving rise to qualia rather than other neurons or indeed peripheral sense organs. Well, you might as well ask why the engine drives the

Re: How would a computer know if it were conscious?

2007-06-14 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On 15/06/07, David Nyman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 14, 4:46 am, Stathis Papaioannou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course all that is true, but it doesn't explain why neurons in the cortex are the ones giving rise to qualia rather than other neurons or indeed peripheral sense organs.

Re: How would a computer know if it were conscious?

2007-06-14 Thread David Nyman
On Jun 15, 1:13 am, Stathis Papaioannou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do we lose if we say that it is organisation which is intrinsically capable of sense-action, but it takes a substantial amount of organisation of the right sort to in order to give rise to consciousness? This drops the