Re: Where Math and Logic are Insufficient

2008-12-07 Thread Kim Jones
On 07/12/2008, at 4:29 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: (The Court Jester wrote): What you cannot say is what is determining the order in the chaos once it arrives. That's closer to what I mean. 2 men start to dig a hole. They are instructed to make it reach a depth of 5 feet. One of them

Re: MGA 3

2008-12-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 07 Dec 2008, at 06:19, Abram Demski wrote: Bruno, Yes, I think there is a big difference between making an argument more detailed and making it more understandable. They can go together or be opposed. So a version of the argument targeted at my complaint might not be good at all

Re: MGA 3

2008-12-07 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 10:06:30AM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: Perhaps, but the whole point is that remains to be justify. It is *the* problem. If we assume comp, then we have to justify this. No doubt little programs play a key role, but the bigger one too, unless some destructive

Re: MGA 3

2008-12-07 Thread Russell Standish
On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 03:32:53PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: I would be pleased if you can give me a version of MAT or MEC to which the argument does not apply. For example, the argument applies to most transfinite variant of MEC. It does not apply when some magic is introduced in MAT,

Re: Consciousness and free will

2008-12-07 Thread M.A.
I don't know about Bruno, but I'm just referring to the ordinary person's attempts to improve his life in such categories as: love, health, creative fulfillment, prosperity, wisdom and so forth.m.a. - Original Message - From: John Mikes To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: