Re: Changing the past by forgetting

2009-04-21 Thread Saibal Mitra
Yes, I agree, and that's then why we cannot do this in practice. The verification of the MWI would have to wait untilk we have artificially intelligent observers implemented by quantum computers. However, ass uming that the MWI is indeed correct, it doesn't matter if you undo the measurement. If

Extra explanation

2009-04-21 Thread Saibal Mitra
I just send a posting to the FOR list about my article. I did not have the time to reply to everyone on this list previously. Reading the old discussion again, I think that it was suggested that the exact quantum states matter, but they don't. It was only used to illustrate the thought experiment

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-21 Thread John Mikes
Jesse, I always appreciated your posts as considerate, logical and most professional. Now I a not so sure... Brent mixed up a bit the concepts, even stirring in interpretation into meaning, you speak about our real world - a joke. All because both of you are infected with a

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Apr 2009, at 17:41, Brent Meeker wrote: A computation is a sequence of numbers (or of strings, or of combinators, etc.) as resulting by an interpretation. For such an interpretation, you don't need a world, only an interpreter that is a universal system, like elementary arithmetic

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-21 Thread Brent Meeker
Bruno Marchal wrote: On 20 Apr 2009, at 17:41, Brent Meeker wrote: A computation is a sequence of numbers (or of strings, or of combinators, etc.) as resulting by an interpretation. For such an interpretation, you don't need a world, only an interpreter that is a universal system,

Re: Changing the past by forgetting

2009-04-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
Accepting QM without collapse, I am not sure you can dump your memory in the environment in any truly irreversible way. Bruno On 21 Apr 2009, at 15:22, Saibal Mitra wrote: Yes, I agree, and that's then why we cannot do this in practice. The verification of the MWI would have to wait

Re: Changing the past by forgetting

2009-04-21 Thread Saibal Mitra
That's correct. It is not really irreversible. The point is that it doesn't matter as you end up in a state where the outcome of finding out what happened is not pre-determined. Saibal - Original Message - From: Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent:

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Apr 2009, at 18:59, Brent Meeker wrote: The question was whether information was enough, or whether something else is needed for consciousness. I think that sequence is needed, which we experience as the passage of time. When you speak of computations going from A to B do you

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-21 Thread Brent Meeker
Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Apr 2009, at 18:59, Brent Meeker wrote: The question was whether information was enough, or whether something else is needed for consciousness. I think that sequence is needed, which we experience as the passage of time. When you speak of computations going

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-21 Thread John Mikes
Bruno, you made my day when you wrote: *SOMEHOW - *in: ...The machine has to be runned or executed relatively to a universal machine. You need the Peano or Robinson axiom to define such states and sequences of states. You can shuffled them if you want, and somehow the UD does shuffle them by its