Re: Observers and Church/Turing

2011-02-03 Thread Andrew Soltau
On 01/02/11 20:07, Bruno Marchal wrote: But it gives only all possible experiential realities, and even if these are by chance consistent with a physical quantum environment up to a certain point, it is tremendously unlikely that at each moment they will continue to be so. If you prove

Re: Observers and Church/Turing

2011-02-03 Thread Andrew Soltau
On 01/02/11 20:07, Bruno Marchal wrote: In step 8 you state that 'a “physical universe” really “exists” and is too little in the sense of not being able to generate the entire UD*, nor any reasonable portions of it,'. However, if we adopt Tipler's Omega point scenario, we get infinite

Re: Are our brains in that VAT? Yep.

2011-02-03 Thread Andrew Soltau
On 02/02/11 23:54, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Colin Hales c.ha...@pgrad.unimelb.edu.au wrote: This means we are hooked into the external world in ways that are not present in the peripheral nerves. Looking at the (nerves pulses) signals, it is impossible to

Re: Maudlin How many times does COMP have to be false before its false?

2011-02-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Feb 2011, at 01:18, Brent Meeker wrote: On 2/2/2011 2:00 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Brent Meekermeeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: I think it very likely that the brain can be so modeled. But the meaning that simulated brain, as expressed in it's

Re: Maudlin How many times does COMP have to be false before its false?

2011-02-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Feb 2011, at 01:41, David Nyman wrote: On 2 February 2011 23:35, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: To protect a natural world primary ontology, I think Colin has to provide a naturalization of consciousness escaping digitalization at all nature levels, and this without

Re: Observers and Church/Turing

2011-02-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Feb 2011, at 11:28, Andrew Soltau wrote: On 01/02/11 20:07, Bruno Marchal wrote: But it gives only all possible experiential realities, and even if these are by chance consistent with a physical quantum environment up to a certain point, it is tremendously unlikely that at each

Re: Observers and Church/Turing

2011-02-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Feb 2011, at 12:05, Andrew Soltau wrote: On 01/02/11 20:07, Bruno Marchal wrote: In step 8 you state that 'a “physical universe” really “exists” and is too little in the sense of not being able to generate the entire UD*, nor any reasonable portions of it,'. However, if we adopt

Re: Observers and Church/Turing

2011-02-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
Andrew, Let me try to be a little more precise or helpful. I just said, On 03 Feb 2011, at 15:15, Bruno Marchal wrote: Yes, but your point in step 8 is that a physical universe is *too little*, but with omega point it is not too little, it is as rich as arithmetically possible. Not at

Re: Maudlin How many times does COMP have to be false before its false?

2011-02-03 Thread David Nyman
On 3 February 2011 13:40, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Colin has to find a difference between the physical world and the physical world extracted from comp. What I think I'm still missing is the precise significance of has to in the above. What is supposed to follow from NOT

Re: Maudlin How many times does COMP have to be false before its false?

2011-02-03 Thread Jason
On Feb 2, 6:18 pm, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: On 2/2/2011 2:00 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Brent Meekermeeke...@dslextreme.com   wrote: I think it very likely that the brain can be so modeled.  But the meaning that simulated

Re: Maudlin How many times does COMP have to be false before its false?

2011-02-03 Thread Brent Meeker
On 2/3/2011 5:17 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 03 Feb 2011, at 01:18, Brent Meeker wrote: On 2/2/2011 2:00 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Brent Meekermeeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: I think it very likely that the brain can be so modeled. But the meaning

Re: Are our brains in that VAT? Yep.

2011-02-03 Thread Colin Hales
Stathis (Down below...) Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Colin Hales c.ha...@pgrad.unimelb.edu.au wrote: This means we are hooked into the external world in ways that are not present in the peripheral nerves. Looking at the (nerves pulses) signals, it is

Re: Maudlin How many times does COMP have to be false before its false?

2011-02-03 Thread Brent Meeker
On 2/3/2011 2:40 PM, Jason wrote: On Feb 2, 6:18 pm, Brent Meekermeeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: On 2/2/2011 2:00 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Brent Meekermeeke...@dslextreme.comwrote: I think it very likely that the

Re: Are our brains in that VAT? Yep.

2011-02-03 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Colin Hales c.ha...@pgrad.unimelb.edu.au wrote: Can the behaviour of the neurons including the electric fields be simulated? For example, is it possible to model what will happen in the brain (and what output will ultimately go to the muscles via