Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On 12/08/2011, at 1:06 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, muscles will contract for any old material that can conduct an electric current. A muscle doesn't require a high level conversation with the brain's cells to react. We can move in our sleep when we aren't

Re: bruno list

2011-08-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Aug 2011, at 19:24, meekerdb wrote: On 8/11/2011 7:14 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: In any case, I have made the thought experiment simpler by *assuming* that the replacement component is mechanically equivalent to the biological tissue. We can imagine that it is a black box animated

Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Aug 2011, at 14:16, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 11, 1:14 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: The conclusion is that such a device is impossible because it leads to conceptual difficulties. Consciousness itself leads to conceptual difficulties. Except for the fact that

Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Aug 2011, at 08:55, Stephen P. King wrote: On 8/11/2011 1:14 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Stephen P. Kingstephe...@charter.net wrote: Please explain what would you think would happen if you replaced part of your brain with an unconscious

Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 12, 4:21 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/08/2011, at 1:06 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, muscles will contract for any old material that can conduct an electric current. A muscle doesn't require a high level conversation with the

Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 12, 5:01 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 11 Aug 2011, at 14:16, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 11, 1:14 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: The conclusion is that such a device is impossible because it leads to conceptual difficulties. Consciousness

Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 12, 5:05 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 11 Aug 2011, at 08:55, Stephen P. King wrote:    What special sauce? Why is it ok to assume that consciousness is   something special that can only occur is special circumstances? Why   not consider that possibility that it is

Re: bruno list

2011-08-12 Thread meekerdb
On 8/12/2011 2:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Aug 2011, at 19:24, meekerdb wrote: On 8/11/2011 7:14 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: In any case, I have made the thought experiment simpler by*assuming* that the replacement component is mechanically equivalent to the biological tissue. We

Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 11.08.2011 22:46 meekerdb said the following: On 8/11/2011 1:04 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... I would say now that consciousness is conscious perception. The main problem in my view though is who follows the narrative. Does your theory answer such a question? I'd say You do, there's no

Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 12.08.2011 00:00 Craig Weinberg said the following: On Aug 11, 4:04 pm, Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru wrote: I would say now that consciousness is conscious perception. The main problem in my view though is who follows the narrative. Does your theory answer such a question? Just as an

Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread meekerdb
On 8/12/2011 11:00 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 11.08.2011 22:46 meekerdb said the following: On 8/11/2011 1:04 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... I would say now that consciousness is conscious perception. The main problem in my view though is who follows the narrative. Does your theory answer

Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 12, 2:00 pm, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: This the point that I do not understand. The question is here more what exactly is the observer in my body. Presumably it is the brain. Then it first constructs the world that I observe, than it observes the constructed world. It is

Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 12.08.2011 20:40 meekerdb said the following: On 8/12/2011 11:00 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 11.08.2011 22:46 meekerdb said the following: On 8/11/2011 1:04 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... I would say now that consciousness is conscious perception. The main problem in my view though is

Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 12.08.2011 20:47 Craig Weinberg said the following: On Aug 12, 2:00 pm, Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru wrote: This the point that I do not understand. The question is here more what exactly is the observer in my body. Presumably it is the brain. Then it first constructs the world that I

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2011-08-12 Thread John Mikes
Dear Pilar, as your fellow Not-English-Mothertongue guy. I point to the*incompleteness * in this language:* Nothing - EXISTS not.* It isn't. But it is bad English to write: * Why 'is-not' nothing?* so we have a discussion point. In my (non-IndoEuropean) mothertongue the question is exactly

Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 12, 3:41 pm, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: It would be interesting to see how do you know this. Some revelation or something else? I don't know it, I just think that it could be the case. If you can fully and finally reject the proposition that your own experiences could be

Re: Unconscious Components

2011-08-12 Thread meekerdb
On 8/12/2011 12:37 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 12.08.2011 20:40 meekerdb said the following: On 8/12/2011 11:00 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 11.08.2011 22:46 meekerdb said the following: On 8/11/2011 1:04 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... I would say now that consciousness is conscious

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2011-08-12 Thread meekerdb
What is there? Everything! So what isn't there? Nothing! --- Norm Levitt, after Quine On 8/12/2011 1:02 PM, John Mikes wrote: Dear Pilar, as your fellow Not-English-Mothertongue guy. I point to the* incompleteness* in this language:*/ Nothing - _EXISTS_ not./* It isn't. But it

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2011-08-12 Thread Pilar Morales
Dear John, thank you for the feedback. My comments below.. On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 4:02 PM, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Pilar, as your fellow Not-English-Mothertongue guy. I point to the*incompleteness * in this language:* Nothing - EXISTS not.* It isn't. But it is bad

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2011-08-12 Thread meekerdb
On 8/12/2011 2:08 PM, Pilar Morales wrote: I see you take it for granted that the Universe was born. Was it indeed? Maybe OUR universe was, but I speak about the World (Multiverse, none of them necessarily identical in any sense) in which we inhabit a pretty simple one with

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2011-08-12 Thread Pilar Morales
Brent, Is it possible that zero could have negative charge, positive charge, and neutral charge? Which reminds me, why is it that the photon doesn't have an anti-particle other than itself? It makes no sense to me that Bosons for the most part don't have antimatter equivalents. I would think that

Re: Blueprint of existence

2011-08-12 Thread meekerdb
On 8/12/2011 4:33 PM, Pilar Morales wrote: I was following the conversation on consciousness and life and was trying to find out if there's a relationship between the number of Bosons and Fermions in living organisms (as units and as parts of larger more complex organisms) versus their ratio

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2011-08-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 12, 8:28 pm, Pilar Morales pilarmorales...@gmail.com wrote: gravitation and magnetism are manifestations of the same force, just different reactions to interactions. I think that is the case also. To me it seems possible that gravity, like time, is not a true primitive phenomenon, but

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2011-08-12 Thread meekerdb
On 8/12/2011 5:28 PM, Pilar Morales wrote: Brent, Is it possible that zero could have negative charge, positive charge, and neutral charge? Zero is the cardinality of the empty set. It's not part of the physical world. Which reminds me, why is it that the photon doesn't have an

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2011-08-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 12, 9:55 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Photons don't carry charge.  If they did they'd interact with other photons and we wouldn't be able to see anything. Would you say that what we see is photons? Even in our dreams? -- You received this message because you are subscribed

Should Math Be Taught in School

2011-08-12 Thread meekerdb
Are you the kind of person who knows math? http://videosift.com/video/Miss-USA-2011-Should-Math-Be-Taught-In-Schools Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.

Re: bruno list

2011-08-12 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 3:22 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: John Searle claims to be a physicalist but he believes that if part of your brain is replaced by a functionally identical computer chip your behaviour will remain the same but your consciousness will fade away.

Re: bruno list

2011-08-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 12, 11:18 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: Noticing is distributed, but the parts of the brain are interconnected. Visual perception occurs in the visual cortex, then the information may be sent to the limbic system causing an emotional reaction to what is seen and the

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2011-08-12 Thread Pilar Morales
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 9:55 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 8/12/2011 5:28 PM, Pilar Morales wrote: or a magnetron, which to me, gravitation and magnetism are manifestations of the same force, just different reactions to interactions. Andre Sakharov wrote a famous paper that

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2011-08-12 Thread meekerdb
On 8/12/2011 7:01 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 12, 9:55 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: Photons don't carry charge. If they did they'd interact with other photons and we wouldn't be able to see anything. Would you say that what we see is photons? Even in our dreams?

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2011-08-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 13, 12:26 am, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 8/12/2011 7:01 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 12, 9:55 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net  wrote: Photons don't carry charge.  If they did they'd interact with other photons and we wouldn't be able to see anything. Would you

Re: bruno list

2011-08-12 Thread meekerdb
On 8/12/2011 8:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: It can be noticed separately in that hemisphere but if it is not communicated it will be a separate consciousness. I think we have almost converged to agreement here. If the AI part communicates to the brain hemisphere just as the brain

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2011-08-12 Thread meekerdb
On 8/12/2011 9:33 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 13, 12:26 am, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 8/12/2011 7:01 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 12, 9:55 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.netwrote: Photons don't carry charge. If they did they'd interact with other photons