Re: models and physical laws

2012-04-29 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 28.04.2012 17:49 meekerdb said the following: On 4/28/2012 12:10 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: If we say that everything based on models, the question is then what physical laws are. For example, if quantum mechanics is just a model, then its interpretation, for example MWI, in my view, does

Re: models and physical laws

2012-04-29 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
John, according to your agnostic view, is a model a good term to describe our knowledge? Evgenii On 28.04.2012 22:37 John Mikes said the following: Evgenii: MWI is great, I just cannot follow the logic why ALL 'worlds' should be identical with this one we are doomed to live in (except for

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread 1Z
On Apr 27, 11:19 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: That's why I said, except for people who believe in philosophical zombies. Brent A quailess AI isn;t a p-zombie. A p-zombie is physically identical to a human. An AI will be made out of silicon or something, which could

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread 1Z
On Apr 27, 9:16 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 4/27/2012 12:00 PM, 1Z wrote: On Apr 27, 7:13 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net  wrote:    We never explained where the elan vital was or where it came from.  We just came up with a different kind of 'explanation'. And the EV

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread 1Z
On Apr 27, 9:29 pm, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 27, 11:38 am, 1Z peterdjo...@yahoo.com wrote: What do you say the efficient cause of feeling is? Some priori brain state. What could make a brain state cause a feeling? A psychophsical law

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 12:49 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: It's standard use of language that if something is not determined it is random. I have never heard of that in my life. Did you say that because you had no choice or was it random? If something is determined it

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread meekerdb
On 4/29/2012 3:22 AM, 1Z wrote: On Apr 27, 11:19 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: That's why I said, except for people who believe in philosophical zombies. Brent A quailess AI isn;t a p-zombie. A p-zombie is physically identical to a human. An AI will be made out of silicon or

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Apr 29, 1:26 pm, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 28, 2012  Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: How many times do you want me to restate the obvious third alternative 42. YOU CREATE the reason to act. OK, then you create the reason to act for a reason OR you

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread 1Z
On Apr 29, 8:37 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 4/29/2012 3:22 AM, 1Z wrote: On Apr 27, 11:19 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: That's why I said, except for people who believe in philosophical zombies. Brent A quailess AI isn;t a p-zombie. A p-zombie is

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread meekerdb
On 4/29/2012 5:26 PM, 1Z wrote: On Apr 29, 8:37 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 4/29/2012 3:22 AM, 1Z wrote: On Apr 27, 11:19 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: That's why I said, except for people who believe in philosophical zombies. Brent A quailess AI isn;t a

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread 1Z
On Apr 30, 2:30 am, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 4/29/2012 5:26 PM, 1Z wrote: On Apr 29, 8:37 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net  wrote: On 4/29/2012 3:22 AM, 1Z wrote: On Apr 27, 11:19 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net   wrote: That's why I said, except for people who

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread meekerdb
On 4/29/2012 6:37 PM, 1Z wrote: On Apr 30, 2:30 am, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 4/29/2012 5:26 PM, 1Z wrote: On Apr 29, 8:37 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.netwrote: On 4/29/2012 3:22 AM, 1Z wrote: On Apr 27, 11:19 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: That's

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Apr 29, 9:53 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: I think we do.  My dog acts intelligently and most people suppose he experiences qualia. Do we think a stupid dog experiences qualia which is not as rich as that of a smart dog? Pain does not hurt as much for a dog that doesn't know

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread meekerdb
On 4/29/2012 8:03 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Apr 29, 9:53 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: I think we do. My dog acts intelligently and most people suppose he experiences qualia. Do we think a stupid dog experiences qualia which is not as rich as that of a smart dog? No, but I

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Apr 29, 11:17 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 4/29/2012 8:03 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Apr 29, 9:53 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net  wrote: I think we do.  My dog acts intelligently and most people suppose he experiences qualia. Do we think a stupid dog experiences

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread meekerdb
On 4/29/2012 8:34 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Apr 29, 11:17 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 4/29/2012 8:03 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Apr 29, 9:53 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.netwrote: I think we do. My dog acts intelligently and most people suppose he experiences

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Apr 29, 11:40 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: So why is it that some people don't feel pain? You mean physiologically, like Leprosy or a spinal cord injury? If your receiving instrument is damaged, you can't properly access the experiences that others can. Lose your internet

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-04-29 Thread meekerdb
On 4/29/2012 8:59 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Apr 29, 11:40 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: So why is it that some people don't feel pain? You mean physiologically, like Leprosy or a spinal cord injury? No, genetically. There is no specific 'receiving instrument' for pain. Brent