Re: Re: Re: I am my memory, which is provided by my 1p.

2012-12-18 Thread Telmo Menezes
Hi Roger, Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=nsjDnYxJ0bo On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Telmo Menezes It would be good if they showed a video clip. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] rclo...@verizon.net]

Re: the only truth we can understand is a man-made object

2012-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Dec 2012, at 22:02, meekerdb wrote: On 12/17/2012 11:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Dec 2012, at 20:28, meekerdb wrote: On 12/16/2012 2:31 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: No. With the CTM the ultimate truth is arithmetical truth, and we cannot really define it (with the CTM). We can

Re: Re: On Income Fairness (income equality) in the USA and the world

2012-12-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg Fear is the control tool of fascism, not conservatism. Fascism is state control of the individual through fear. Conservatism is the opposite, desiring the least state control of the individual (freedom). Liberalism aims at maximum state control of the individual through laws

The quantum = monadic domain as the domain of life, mind and intelligence

2012-12-18 Thread Roger Clough
Stephen King has sent the following link(s) at the bottom, which I am very thankful for, since they suggest many similarites between the idealistic (inextended) domain of the monads and the quantum domain. I believe they are identical, since: (a) Both are nonphysical (inextended), both being

Re: Re: What is truth ? Take your pick.

2012-12-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King Sorry, I got his name wrong. Try, for starters, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Davidson_%28philosopher%29 A more in-depth treatment is at http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/davidson/ [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/18/2012 Forever is a long time, especially

Re: Re: On the need for perspective and relations in modelling the mind

2012-12-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal It would be interesting to see which logical statements apply to the monadic=quantum domain, which is beyond space and time. Part of Quantum Information theory. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/18/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen

Re: The quantum = monadic domain as the domain of life, mind and intelligence

2012-12-18 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/18/2012 9:38 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Stephen King has sent the following link(s) at the bottom, which I am very thankful for, since they suggest many similarites between the idealistic (inextended) domain of the monads and the quantum domain. I believe they are identical, Dear Roger,

Re: Re: Avoiding the use of the word God

2012-12-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King Leibniz simply assumed that the PEH existed. My followup was that at least for large groups of particles, not of small groups or 1, thermodynamincs is the PEH. In a way this makes sense, since God seems to act only on groups (such as killing all besides noah and his

Re: Re: promoting REASON

2012-12-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg Party politics will soon end. The two parties of the future (next year if even that) will be (a) those who want to cut the debt and (b) those who don't. That's what's happened to much of europe. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/18/2012 Forever is a long time,

Re: Re: Re: Re: I am my memory, which is provided by my 1p.

2012-12-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Telmo Menezes Thank you so much ! What an achievement ! Hard to believe. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/18/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Telmo Menezes Receiver: everything-list Time:

Question: Robotic truth

2012-12-18 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Suppose that you are in charge of the software of a social robot. I mean a robot that live with other robots that collaborate to solve problems. These robots must repair themselves, with pieces that are located in the field. these pieces are scarce or they are not for free, and some groups of

Re: Re: clearing up the confusion on the fairness index

2012-12-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb I should have said real per person income instead of growth rate, but they are in the same ball park: I subsequently found, in a followup email, that although the gini factor shows inequality in the USA to becoming greater, the effect over the last 40 years (gini up by a factor of

Re: Question: Robotic truth

2012-12-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Alberto G. Corona I'd rather just take a poll. I feel more comfortable with data. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/18/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Alberto G. Corona Receiver: everything-list

Re: Men don't get no respect these days

2012-12-18 Thread John Mikes
Do not fall for the US mistake to call the prez's administration a government. In this country GOVERNMENT = CONGRESS, they spend, or save. Boehner's majority deal: do it MY WAY and I agree. Obama is not republican: he is weak. JM On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Richard Ruquist

Re: the only truth we can understand is a man-made object

2012-12-18 Thread John Mikes
Congrats to the perfect definition. Add to it (my) agnostic position that we know only part of everything and nobody will talk truth. To Brent: about FACTS? the facts we see(?) are similarly only model related (partially understood). JM On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 4:02 PM, meekerdb

Re: Re: promoting REASON

2012-12-18 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:34:14 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Party politics will soon end. The two parties of the future (next year if even that) will be (a) those who want to cut the debt and (b) those who don't. That's what's happened to much of europe.

Re: Re: Re: Re: I am my memory, which is provided by my 1p.

2012-12-18 Thread Telmo Menezes
Hi Roger, It is indeed hard to believe. Glad you enjoyed it! Best, Telmo. On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 4:53 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Telmo Menezes Thank you so much ! What an achievement ! Hard to believe. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] rclo...@verizon.net]

Re: Progressives and social darwinism

2012-12-18 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:40:40 AM UTC-5, Alberto G.Corona wrote: This is just one of many draft menssages in response to political questions that I did not send to this group because it is of-topic, but it may be interesting. 'Was slavery good before Progressive activism changed

Re: the only truth we can understand is a man-made object

2012-12-18 Thread meekerdb
On 12/17/2012 11:53 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Is there a logic that does not recognize a proposition to be true or false unless there is an accessible proof for it? Accessible is hard for me to define canonically, but one could think of it as being able to build a model (via

Re: the only truth we can understand is a man-made object

2012-12-18 Thread meekerdb
On 12/17/2012 11:51 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Which implies there is some measure of 'true' other than 'provable'. What do you mean ? that provable true is truer ? No, just that there must be propositions we judge to be true that aren't provable. Brent -- You received this message

Re: Avoiding the use of the word God

2012-12-18 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/18/2012 10:16 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King Leibniz simply assumed that the PEH existed. My followup was that at least for large groups of particles, not of small groups or 1, thermodynamincs is the PEH. Dear Roger, I am OK with the idea that thermodynamics is the PEH,

Re: Question: Robotic truth

2012-12-18 Thread Alberto G. Corona
It just want te people to argue about what must be true for these robots. I suppose that the truth about fabrication of pieces are know and accepted by all, so the only remaining things to communicate and hold as trur are the ones related with the location of available pieces or things related

Re: Question: Robotic truth

2012-12-18 Thread Alberto G. Corona
2012/12/18 Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com It just want te people to argue about what must be true for these robots. I suppose that the truth about fabrication of pieces are know and accepted by all, so the only remaining things to communicate and hold as trur are the ones related with

Re: The quantum = monadic domain as the domain of life,mind and intelligence

2012-12-18 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/18/2012 10:51 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King You said I see space and time as, respectively, the order of simultaneous givens and of sequentially givens of the percepts of monads. They emerge from the statistics of entanglements between many monads and need not be considered

Re: On Income Fairness (income equality) in the USA and the world

2012-12-18 Thread meekerdb
On 12/18/2012 4:35 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Fear is the control tool of fascism, not conservatism. Fascism is state control of the individual through fear. Conservatism is the opposite, desiring the least state control of the individual (freedom). You're confusing

Re: promoting REASON

2012-12-18 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/18/2012 11:54 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:34:14 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Party politics will soon end. The two parties of the future (next year if even that) will be (a) those who want to cut the debt and (b) those

Re: Progressives and social darwinism

2012-12-18 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/18/2012 12:19 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: The difference is that the Conservatives knowingly promote fear and intolerance while the Progressives at least believe in a life-affirming agenda. Craig, Please look at this statement again. It is false on so many levels it hurts me to read

Re: the only truth we can understand is a man-made object

2012-12-18 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/18/2012 12:51 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 12/17/2012 11:51 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Which implies there is some measure of 'true' other than 'provable'. What do you mean ? that provable true is truer ? No, just that there must be propositions we judge to be true that aren't

Re: promoting REASON

2012-12-18 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:19:46 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 12/18/2012 11:54 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:34:14 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Party politics will soon end. The two parties of the future (next year if

Re: clearing up the confusion on the fairness index

2012-12-18 Thread meekerdb
On 12/18/2012 7:05 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg More liberal misrepresentation of the truth. The gini for the USA is about average for the world. But it's above the average, and the individual values, for the OECD AND it's been steadily increasing since 1980 - when Ray-gun was

Re: promoting REASON

2012-12-18 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/18/2012 2:17 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:19:46 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 12/18/2012 11:54 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:34:14 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Party politics

Re: Question: Robotic truth

2012-12-18 Thread meekerdb
On 12/18/2012 8:05 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: Suppose that you are in charge of the software of a social robot. I mean a robot that live with other robots that collaborate to solve problems. These robots must repair themselves, with pieces that are located in the field. these pieces are

Re: promoting REASON

2012-12-18 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:30:48 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 12/18/2012 2:17 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:19:46 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 12/18/2012 11:54 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:34:14

Re: the only truth we can understand is a man-made object

2012-12-18 Thread meekerdb
On 12/18/2012 8:47 AM, John Mikes wrote: To Brent: about FACTS? the facts we see(?) are similarly only model related (partially understood). That's true. Being a 'fact' is a matter of degree and in practice all 'facts' are theory laden. Even a fact like, I am experiencing seeing a chair.

Re: promoting REASON

2012-12-18 Thread meekerdb
On 12/18/2012 8:54 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: As far as the pipe dream of increasing individual liberty by reducing the power of government, can't you see that unconstitutional Corporate Feudalism will fill the vacuum before you can say Habeus Corpus? You think that Monsanto is going to give

Re: the only truth we can understand is a man-made object

2012-12-18 Thread meekerdb
On 12/18/2012 10:27 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 12/18/2012 12:51 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 12/17/2012 11:51 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Which implies there is some measure of 'true' other than 'provable'. What do you mean ? that provable true is truer ? No, just that there must be

Re: clearing up the confusion on the fairness index

2012-12-18 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Roger : Try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_distribution_in_the_United_States Then Try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_in_the_United_States Hal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to

Re: the only truth we can understand is a man-made object

2012-12-18 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/18/2012 3:28 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 12/18/2012 10:27 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 12/18/2012 12:51 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 12/17/2012 11:51 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Which implies there is some measure of 'true' other than 'provable'. What do you mean ? that provable true

Re: On Income Fairness in the USA and the world

2012-12-18 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Roger: Try this and sort by wealth Gini http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_distribution_of_wealth Hal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.

Re: On Income Fairness in the USA and the world

2012-12-18 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Roger : Try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_distribution_in_the_United_States Then Try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_in_the_United_States Hal Sorry if this posts more than once - some of my posts just

Re: clearing up the confusion on the fairness index

2012-12-18 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, December 17, 2012 8:02:12 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 12/17/2012 5:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Taxing the rich does not redistribute the income, it adjusts the expenses so that those who benefit disproportionately from the public resources pay their share for an

Re: the only truth we can understand is a man-made object

2012-12-18 Thread meekerdb
On 12/18/2012 1:12 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: We have many entities that are available to agree that 2+2=4 (for all sizes of 2 and 4 that we can find), 2^90 entities at least! Every particle that exist in our universe that can hold a bit of data and all possible combinations of them that

Re: clearing up the confusion on the fairness index

2012-12-18 Thread Stephen P. King
On 12/18/2012 4:40 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, December 17, 2012 8:02:12 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 12/17/2012 5:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Taxing the rich does not redistribute the income, it adjusts the expenses so that those who benefit

Re: Question: Robotic truth

2012-12-18 Thread Alberto G. Corona
But you can not devote yourself to evaluate truth A solipsist robot is a dead robot. an exceptic robot is a almost dead robot. The other robots will not collaborate with a robot that spend so much time and is unreliable for collaboration. other robots will break the robot apart while it is

Re: Question: Robotic truth

2012-12-18 Thread meekerdb
I don't know what you're replying - it doesn't seem to have any connection to what I wrote. Where did I would devote myself to eveluating what's true. Where did I say anything about solipism. You asked how to program a robot to evaluate what's true in interaction with other self-interested