On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:27 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 1/2/2013 4:08 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
In my opinion, good and evil are just names we attach to brain processes
we all have in common. These brain processes make us pursue the best
interest of society instead of our own
Hi Roger,
That's a bit surprising!
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Telmo Menezes
Then we pretty much agree.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] rclo...@verizon.net]
1/2/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 02 Jan 2013, at 13:08, Telmo Menezes wrote:
In my opinion, good and evil are just names we attach to brain processes
we all have in common. These brain processes make us pursue the best
interest of society instead of
Hi Bruno Marchal
IMHO Good is no more arbitrary than life is.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-02, 14:55:31
Hi Craig Weinberg
Enhancing Life is not a very arbitrary value,
but of course interpreting what that means
can differ from person to person. That's why we have
laws, either religious or legal ones.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the
Hi Craig Weinberg
Do you know anything about jurisprudence ? It doesn't care
if your motivations were good or evil, it only cares if you
broke the law or not.
Serial killers are generally thought to be sociopaths, but
they don't usually have much success cooking up an insanity defense.
They are
Chemotherapy is generally thought to be evil to the cancer
(it tries to kill it) and good to the patient (it tries ultimately to
cure him through killing the cancer).
While chemotherapy works against the cancer, on the other hand,
Christian believers such as me believe that the holy spirit, if
Hi Craig Weinberg
Tsunamis and other forces of nature are themselves amoral*, but
their effects can be good (enhance life) or evil (diminish life).
*Since God causes everything to happen, he also, although
reluctantly (the theological term is God's permissive will)
mustl cause evil to happen as
Hi Craig Weinberg
It doesn't matter whether you have good or bad intentions.
The law and God judge us by what we do. You do the crime,
you do the time. You sin, you go to Hell. Personally, I believe
that the eternal torture of Hell is not to be able to feel God's
love and forgiveness. That
Hi Craig Weinberg
If you jump off of a building, gravity will kill you.
Is that God's fault ? IMHO since God created
nature, he also created the natural forces, which
cause tsunamis. God is lawful, so He follows his
own natural laws. Crap happens down here.
We aren't yet in Heaven.
[Roger
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 5:35:00 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
Do you know anything about jurisprudence ?
Only as much as you do.
It doesn't care
if your motivations were good or evil, it only cares if you
broke the law or not.
Did I contradict that somewhere?
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 6:06:42 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
It doesn't matter whether you have good or bad intentions.
The law and God judge us by what we do. You do the crime,
you do the time.
I'll let the Bible speak for itself, if that is the God you are
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 5:53:56 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
Tsunamis and other forces of nature are themselves amoral*, but
their effects can be good (enhance life) or evil (diminish life).
Are you saying that God is powerless to change nature?
*Since God
Hi
Sheldrake's morphic resonance is based on observations such as this:
repeated operations by people doing the same times crossword puzzle cause
subsequent solving of the puzzle later in the day easier.
This is ridiculed by scientists.
But IMHO morphic resonance could be understood as
Hi Craig Weinberg
Evil is not defined by law, but crime is.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Craig Weinberg
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-03, 08:12:58
Hi Craig Weinberg
All of your quotes are very good advice.
What's your point ?
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Craig Weinberg
Receiver: everything-list
Time:
Hi Craig Weinberg
Whatever the Bible says.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Craig Weinberg
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-03, 08:55:02
Subject: Re: Re: The
Hi Stephen P. King
1) I dobn't know what you mean by subjective. Things happen.
Crap happens.
2). You seem to have some incorrect ideas about Leibniz.
Leibniz in no way pretended that he created a perfect system.
The world is far from perfect. All L did suggest is that God did
the best job
On 1/3/2013 9:30 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Stephen P. King
1) I dobn't know what you mean by subjective. Things happen.
Crap happens.
2). You seem to have some incorrect ideas about Leibniz.
Leibniz in no way pretended that he created a perfect system.
The world is far from perfect. All L did
Hi Stephen P. King
I suppose that you're referring to the cpre-established perfect harmony,
which makes it seem as if everything we do is determined (by God).
IMHO that only means that God knows what we will do, not
make the decision for us.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013
I have a even simpler explanation of Sheldrake's morphic resonance
observations, Rupert Sheldrake is a simpleton and a crappy scientist.
John K Clark
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Hi meekerdb
The world down here isn't heaven, yes,
but there still is a Heaven for the afterlife, IMHO.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: meekerdb
Receiver:
Hi meekerdb
Although a brilliant logician, Russell was far left (no doubt a
communist and so anti-christian). His diatribe against Christianity
is a prime example. It's totally misinformed and mistaken.
Ethics is, at bottom, loving your neighbor as your self.
[Roger Clough],
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi meekerdb
Although a brilliant logician, Russell was far left (no doubt a
communist and so anti-christian). His diatribe against Christianity
is a prime example. It's totally misinformed and mistaken.
Ethics is, at
Hi Roger,
I'm curious about the experimental setup. Could it be that he's just
misinterpreting a probabilistic distribution? Suppose the amount of time it
takes people to solve a puzzle follows a normal distribution. As time
passes and we ride the slope to the mean, we can get the mistaken
Hi Richard Ruquist
My understanding of Sheldrake's results suggests
to me that the universe is not like a deterministic great computer,
or if it is, the deterministic or mechanical part acts like a filter to
incline random motions to more regular ones
which Sheldrake calls habits or morphic
Hi Telmo Menezes
I suffer from chronic depression, and so have the same
problem, in which case I try to act according to principles.
My main belief is that whoever comes to me is my neighbor.
So I keep a few dollars in my wallet to give to beggars
in the street.
[Roger Clough],
Hi Roger Clough,
Nova Spivack has two linked blogs following the one I copied below in
which he argues that since consciousness is not computable, something
he takes for granted, then consciousness must be even more fundamental
than spacetime. You might find it of interest to read all three
Roger,
How are morphic fields related to monads?
Richard
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Telmo Menezes
Sheldrake's been criticized in such a fashion for many of his results
(there are a huge number of other types of observations) but I simply
Thanks Roger! I'm intrigued and will investigate further when time permits.
Another more mundane explanation might be related to the effect of knowing
that something is possible. I believe there is some research on this
effect. In sports, for example, when someone breaks a psychological barrier
Hi Richard Ruquist
Sheldrake says that, if I remember properly,
monads are a combination of mind and body,
so are mindbrains. The perceptions of these
in turn reflect all of the perceptions of all
of the other monads in the universe, so the
universe is a giant mindbrain. Then there
is a
Roger,
But how do morphic fields fit in with this scheme of things?
Richard
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Richard Ruquist
Sheldrake says that, if I remember properly,
monads are a combination of mind and body,
so are mindbrains. The perceptions
Hi Richard Ruquist
Sheldrake and leibniz would offer a more shocking picture, namely that
strings, like all matter, are alive.
But Gates is to be congratulated
for excaping from the cult of materialism.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near
Hi Richard Ruquist
They rule everything.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Richard Ruquist
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-03, 11:48:05
Subject: Re: Monads
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 10:44:17 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Telmo Menezes
Sheldrake's been criticized in such a fashion for many of his results
(there are a huge number of other types of observations) but I simply
trust that he's not deceiving us. My reason is that materialists
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 9:04:39 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
Evil is not defined by law, but crime is.
I ask again, Did I contradict that somewhere?
[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] javascript:
1/3/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end.
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 9:11:29 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
All of your quotes are very good advice.
What's your point ?
My point is that any worthwhile religion is very much concerned with
intentions and the content of your 'heart', at least as much as whether
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 6:14:41 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
If you jump off of a building, gravity will kill you.
Is that God's fault ? IMHO since God created
nature, he also created the natural forces, which
cause tsunamis. God is lawful, so He follows his
own
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 10:45:01 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote:
BTW my stichk is that consciousness
comes from discrete compactified space that is arithmetic, in both the
megaverse and in each universe.
Richard
Why would consciousness come from discrete compactified space? To me, all
On 02 Jan 2013, at 20:13, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 12:57:34 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 02 Jan 2013, at 02:01, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Chemotherapy Good or Evil?
Better than nothing for most people having some disease.
Worst than THC injection, plausibly
On 02 Jan 2013, at 20:27, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/2/2013 4:08 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
In my opinion, good and evil are just names we attach to brain
processes we all have in common. These brain processes make us
pursue the best interest of society instead of our own self-
interest. I
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 5:22:24 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
Enhancing Life is not a very arbitrary value,
I don't know about arbitrary, but it is a very nebulous value. What does
the enhancement of life consist of? The growth of bacteria? The improvement
of the
On 02 Jan 2013, at 20:31, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/2/2013 5:21 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Leibniz's view, in his theodicy , which I hold to also, is that
the world down here, that God created, is necessarily imperfect,
so, as they say crap happens. This is because things can't be good
everywhere
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 12:16:36 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 02 Jan 2013, at 20:13, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 12:57:34 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 02 Jan 2013, at 02:01, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Chemotherapy Good or Evil?
Better than nothing
On 02 Jan 2013, at 21:01, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/2/2013 10:34 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
A nice quote from Galileo by John L. Heilbron that shows:
1) One could trace the falsifiability to Jesuits of Galileo's time.
2) It could be a link between falsifiability and theology.
p. 318 ‘However,
On 1/3/2013 12:57 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
Isn't it supported by, In the long term, the DNA of the species as more
chances of
thriving if the individuals are altruistic to a degree.
Maybe, if you're willing to wait a couple million years for biological evolution to
catch up with
On 1/3/2013 2:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
While chemotherapy works against the cancer, on the other hand,
Christian believers such as me believe that the holy spirit, if
so requested, can fill you with life and so defeat a cancer by that means.
Hmmm. I guess my friend Dan, who is a devout
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 5:44:32 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Chemotherapy is generally thought to be evil to the cancer
(it tries to kill it) and good to the patient (it tries ultimately to
cure him through killing the cancer).
While chemotherapy works against the cancer, on the
On 02 Jan 2013, at 21:46, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:05:10 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 1/2/2013 11:13 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 12:57:34 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 02 Jan 2013, at 02:01, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Chemotherapy
On 1/3/2013 5:47 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Personally, I believe
that the eternal torture of Hell is not to be able to feel God's
love and forgiveness. That would be Hell to a Jesus. He
refers to being tossed out and undergoing a weeping and
gnashing of teeth.
Heaven and
Or
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and
slay them before me.
--- Jesus, Luke 19:27
On 1/3/2013 6:11 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
All of your quotes are very good advice.
What's your point ?
[Roger Clough],
On 1/3/2013 7:10 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi meekerdb
Although a brilliant logician, Russell was far left (no doubt a
communist and so anti-christian).
He was anti-communist too.
His diatribe against Christianity
is a prime example.
It's certainly a prime example of his brilliance and
Rupert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe
What is space ? There is no such thing as space, there are only fields,
which are mathematical structures.
What is matter ? There is no such thing as matter, because it is only a field.
There is no such thing as mass, which is why there
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
All of your quotes are very good advice.
Do you also think that God gave good advice 1 Samuel 15:2-3?
Thus saith the LORD of hosts ... go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy
all that they have, and
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 02 Jan 2013, at 20:31, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/2/2013 5:21 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Leibniz's view, in his theodicy , which I hold to also, is that
the world down here, that God created, is necessarily imperfect,
so,
Morphic fields are your god???
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Richard Ruquist
They rule everything.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 1:14:15 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Rupert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe
What is space ?
Space is the experience of gaps between public presences, or alternatively
the distance which can be measured of one object against another.
There is no such
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 10:44:17 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Telmo Menezes
Sheldrake's been criticized in such a fashion for many of his results
(there are a huge number of other types of observations) but I
On 02.01.2013 21:01 meekerdb said the following:
On 1/2/2013 10:34 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
A nice quote from Galileo by John L. Heilbron that shows:
1) One could trace the falsifiability to Jesuits of Galileo's
time.
2) It could be a link between falsifiability and theology.
p. 318
On 1/3/2013 9:59 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Stephen P. King
I suppose that you're referring to the cpre-established perfect harmony,
which makes it seem as if everything we do is determined (by God).
IMHO that only means that God knows what we will do, not
make the decision for us.
Hi
Don't be so narrow-minded. You must also incorporate Orgone, Feng Shui, Qi, ectoplasma,
the astral plane, and NDE's. Nevermind those piddling rational, mechanistic, material
problems like global warming, overpopulation, lack of water, depletion of oil...
Brent
There are those who claim that
Leibniz's monads = substances refer to phenomenological bodies which are
of one part, that is to say, that have no internal boundaries. So
his monads are morphic forms. If you study the nature of his monads,
(through his monadology) you can learn more about the morphic fields
from his
Hi,
I found an interesting passage in
http://www.labyrinthina.com/multiverse.htm
Another disguised many worlds theory, says Deutsch, is John Cramer's
transactional interpretation in which information passes backwards and
forwards through time. When you measure the position of an atom,
On 1/3/2013 10:13 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net
mailto:rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi meekerdb
Although a brilliant logician, Russell was far left (no doubt a
communist and so anti-christian). His diatribe against
On 1/3/2013 10:22 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Richard Ruquist
My understanding of Sheldrake's results suggests
to me that the universe is not like a deterministic great computer,
or if it is, the deterministic or mechanical part acts like a filter to
incline random motions to more regular ones
On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 01:46:20PM -0500, Richard Ruquist wrote:
While you may investigate such things you will be at a loss to publish
them except on the internet. Even the Cornell internet archives
arXiv.com refuses to publish such results or such thinking. The last
person to get such
On 1/3/2013 10:47 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote:
Roger,
How are morphic fields related to monads?
Richard
Hi,
May I attempt an answer? Monads are not entities that are localized
in a place, they are entire fields of experience. Morphic fields are a
way to think of how monads synchronize and
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 7:28 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote:
Morphic fields are a way to think of how monads synchronize and reflect
their histories with each others using a substance based model
Stephan, Could you elaborate? Richard
--
You received this message because you
On 1/3/2013 12:46 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
It would still be amazing that nature use quantum correcting
machinery at some fundamental level. That might be explainable with
comp. The measure on the computational histories can be made higher if
there are fundamental instructions for hunting the
On 1/3/2013 1:01 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 5:44:32 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Chemotherapy is generally thought to be evil to the cancer
(it tries to kill it) and good to the patient (it tries ultimately to
cure him through killing the cancer).
While
Hi Bruno,
You might be interested in this!
Original Message
Subject:[FOM] Preprint: Topological Galois Theory
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 20:08:04 +0100
From: Olivia Caramello oc...@hermes.cam.ac.uk
Reply-To: Foundations of Mathematics f...@cs.nyu.edu
To:
On 1/3/2013 5:06 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
Hi Bruno,
You might be interested in this!
How about giving us a 500 word summary including an example of it's application.
Brent
Original Message
Subject:[FOM] Preprint: Topological Galois Theory
Date: Thu, 3
On 1/3/2013 7:33 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 7:28 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote:
Morphic fields are a way to think of how monads synchronize and reflect
their histories with each others using a substance based model
Stephan, Could you elaborate? Richard
I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the
beginning of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list about
the paranormal and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake and
other forms of infantile junk science has come up here I thought I'd
send it to this list
Hi,
So how ever many years ago you there confident that CERN would
discover the Higgs? And this post proves? Pfft, do better, John.
On 1/3/2013 11:29 PM, John Clark wrote:
I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the
beginning of the year it is my habit to
A Summary of Peirce, Leibniz and Sheldrake on habits
Habits are the results of of the taming of random ensembles
--
Leibniz states that there are two kinds of logic,
a) necessary logic, which is always true (the timeless logic of Heaven
On morphic telepathy
Note that Leibniz for good reasons (similar to Kant)
did not consider time and space to be substances,
so the monads all exist as a dust of points in an
inextended domain (to use Descartes' concepts)
which is by definition outside of spacetime
(is in mental domain).
IMHO Sheldrake's morphic fields are organizing fields which result
in the self-taming or organization of random fields. So they are
anti-entropic or energy-forming. We see such taming in the formation
of planets from swirling dust particles, in the formation of tornadoes,
and in the
Hi Russell Standish
Most scientific publications are based on the 19th century religious cult of
materialism,
which dogmatically rejects mind and spirit for atheistic purposes (not reasons,
there are none).
It cannot deal with fields at all, for example the theory of relativity, since
Hi Stephen P. King
Entanglement is a major part of Sheldrake's ideas, which
also allow for fields within fields, you might be happy to know.
The fields can be mental and social fields, And includes
resonance between fields such as telepathy..
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/4/2013
Hi Stephen P. King
The only miracle that the holy spirit can work with is life,
for it, like God, is life, or represents life.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/4/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
Hi meekerb,
Heaven is not part of contingent creation, so your statement
that there is no heaven is illogical or irrelevant.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/4/2013
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
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