Re: Re: Martin Luther on Rationality

2013-01-27 Thread Roger Clough
Hi John Mikes Luther did not motivate anybody to kill jews. - Receiving the following content - From: John Mikes Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-26, 16:24:49 Subject: Re: Martin Luther on Rationality Brent: you do beware of the leader - follower position. If a leader

Re: Re: Hyperloop

2013-01-27 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Russell Standish A TOE should include something about consciousness, which of course it doesn't, which of course is why TOEs by those, such as you, dismissive of Cs generally fail. - Receiving the following content - From: Russell Standish Receiver: everything-list Time:

Re: Re: a system of oppression?

2013-01-27 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig, Or belief in socialism/communism, such as you. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-26, 11:55:22 Subject: Re: a system of oppression? On 1/26/2013 11:45 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, January 26, 2013

Re: Re: a system of oppression?

2013-01-27 Thread Roger Clough
Opression ? Consider socialism. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-26, 12:28:01 Subject: Re: a system of oppression? On 1/26/2013 12:13 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:55:22 AM UTC-5,

Re: mega-consciousness,created by bio-electrical circuitry?

2013-01-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Jan 2013, at 13:07, Telmo Menezes wrote: It's a fascinating idea. Groups selection seems to be a controversial issue with biologists, but it makes sense to me that evolution could work at the colony level, the same way it does for social insects. Even more easily, because bacteria

Re: Re: Martin Luther on Rationality

2013-01-27 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb Germany has always been antisemitic, Hitler just organized the killing jews, who unfortunately were also socialists/communists but anyway, Luther's writings were done somewhat obscurely in the 16th century. - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb

Re: Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno, It isn't that we influence the universe, the universe IS us. - Receiving the following content - From: Jason Resch Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-27, 00:53:25 Subject: Re: meditation On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote:

Re: Facts vs values

2013-01-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Jan 2013, at 16:38, Alberto G. Corona wrote: Dear Roger, This is the lutheran view. That´s fine. I love lutherans. but this work as long as you have faith. But once leave the faith, people have no guide in very important things and fall in primitive cults with a modern facade.

Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Jan 2013, at 16:41, Roger Clough wrote: I think that meditation is a way of cutting out the links of consciousness to the noise of the brain, suggesting that Cs is not a product of the brain, rather the reverse. It lets us experience Cs as it really is, cosmic, free of the brain. OK.

Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Jan 2013, at 17:22, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi Telmo, On 24 Jan 2013, at 16:17, Telmo Menezes wrote: Hi all, I was thinking about meditation and how people report experiences of oneness with the universe,

Re: mega-consciousness,created by bio-electrical circuitry?

2013-01-27 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 25 Jan 2013, at 13:07, Telmo Menezes wrote: It's a fascinating idea. Groups selection seems to be a controversial issue with biologists, but it makes sense to me that evolution could work at the colony level, the

Re: Martin Luther on Rationality

2013-01-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Jan 2013, at 13:14, Roger Clough wrote: Hi John Clark, Other than Luther's ancient views on astronomy, and only with regard to salvation or damnation, as a modern Lutheran I agree with everything Luther said, although I might temper down his invective, which was intended for the

Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.comwrote: On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi Telmo, On 24 Jan 2013, at 16:17, Telmo Menezes wrote: Hi

Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 25 Jan 2013, at 16:41, Roger Clough wrote: I think that meditation is a way of cutting out the links of consciousness to the noise of the brain, suggesting that Cs is not a product of the brain, rather the reverse.

Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 25 Jan 2013, at 17:22, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi Telmo, On 24 Jan 2013, at 16:17, Telmo Menezes wrote: Hi all, I was thinking about

Re: Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal IMHO meditation is a perfectly natural phenomenon that does not need to be integrated into anything. - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-27, 07:09:43 Subject: Re: meditation On 25 Jan 2013, at 16:41,

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

2013-01-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Jan 2013, at 20:52, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, January 25, 2013 2:16:02 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Jan 2013, at 22:03, Jason Resch wrote: John, I agree with Craig. The concept of divine simplicity exists in several religions (

Re: Re: Martin Luther on Rationality

2013-01-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:58:15 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi John Mikes Luther did not motivate anybody to kill jews. Why would you think that could possibly be true? If the head of Coca-Cola began a weekly TV program about how your house should be burned down, and that

Re: Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:46:02 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Bruno, It isn't that we influence the universe, the universe IS us. Yes! Us liberals, socialists, Jews, women, Nazis, capitalists.. The universe is all of us. - Receiving the following content -

Re: a system of oppression?

2013-01-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:46:13 AM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 1/27/2013 12:39 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:15:54 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 1/26/2013 9:52 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: If you are born in bondage to a powerful

Re: Re: a system of oppression?

2013-01-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:16:59 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig, Or belief in socialism/communism, such as you. I don't 'believe in' socialism/communism. I observe that a healthy civilization integrates private and public values, just like a healthy psyche does the same. When

Re: Re: Martin Luther on Rationality

2013-01-27 Thread John Mikes
OK, careless connotation. JM On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 5:58 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi John Mikes Luther did not motivate anybody to kill jews. - Receiving the following content - *From:* John Mikes jami...@gmail.com *Receiver:* everything-list

Re: Facts vs values

2013-01-27 Thread John Mikes
Dear Bruno, a brilliant statement. I use the more polite word *'agnosticism'* for *'ignorance'*. In our 'absence of knowledge' (how 'bout that?) we try hard to develop some *faith* in a setup explaining *'us',* 'our world', 'whatever happens' (and why not) etc. based on the ever increasing

Re: Re: Martin Luther on Rationality

2013-01-27 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Germany has always been antisemitic Thanks to that pioneering antisemitic crusader, Martin Luther. Hitler just organized the killing jews, And the writings of Luther and Hitler on the Jews are almost indistinguishable, if you

Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread Stephen P. King
On 1/27/2013 7:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The big bang remains awkward with computationalism. It suggest a long and deep computations is going through our state, but comp suggest that the big bang is not the beginning. Dear Bruno, I think that comp plus some finite limit on resources =

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

2013-01-27 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Without religion, science is pseudo-religion That's OK with me. Religion is bullshit, so pseudo-bullshit is better than pure, triple distilled, extra virgin, investment grade bullshit. How would you define grand for a

Re: The fairness argument and women in the infantry

2013-01-27 Thread John Mikes
Roger - thank you for your clear-minded post. I my add: there is a shortage of men for the imperialistic politics the US seems to pursue and without resoring to general draft only the female input is hopeful. John Mikes On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 5:26 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:

Re: a system of oppression?

2013-01-27 Thread Stephen P. King
On 1/27/2013 10:15 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:20:45 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Opression ? Consider socialism. Like Scandinavian-style socialism? Sounds pretty good to me. If I could get a job in Sweden or Norway I would love to do that. Craig

Re: Facts vs values

2013-01-27 Thread Stephen P. King
Dear John, Hear Hear emotions are biases that are imposed on senses, ISTM. On 1/27/2013 12:09 PM, John Mikes wrote: Dear Bruno, a brilliant statement. I use the more polite word *'agnosticism'* for /'ignorance'/. In our 'absence of knowledge' (how 'bout that?) we try hard to develop

Re: Facts vs values

2013-01-27 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: I have no conflict being a scientist when I deal with science, and being a Christian when I deal with the Bible. As a Christian how do you deal with the fact that the God of the old testament was such a petty repellent piece of

Re: Martin Luther on Rationality

2013-01-27 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Bruno, You sill say interesting things even in a thread that has fallen deep in the boring hole of Reductio at Hitlerum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum 2013/1/27 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 25 Jan 2013, at 13:14, Roger Clough wrote: Hi John Clark, Other than

Re: a system of oppression?

2013-01-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:34:37 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: What I really what to know is: what motivates the need to find oppression? What motivates the need to deny oppression? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything

Re: Martin Luther on Rationality

2013-01-27 Thread meekerdb
On 1/27/2013 3:28 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi meekerdb Germany has always been antisemitic, Hitler just organized the killing jews, who unfortunately were also socialists/communists Are you saying it was OK to kill all those women and children because they were communists. Of course in Spain

Re: a system of oppression?

2013-01-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:37:33 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 1/27/2013 10:15 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:20:45 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Opression ? Consider socialism. Like Scandinavian-style socialism? Sounds pretty good to me. If

Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread meekerdb
On 1/27/2013 5:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 25 Jan 2013, at 23:12, meekerdb wrote: On 1/25/2013 8:22 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Even the idea that we are unconscious during deep sleep does not convince me. We could be conscious but without read/write access to our memories, so how would we

Re: a system of oppression?

2013-01-27 Thread Stephen P. King
On 1/27/2013 2:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:34:37 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: What I really what to know is: what motivates the need to find oppression? What motivates the need to deny oppression? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppression

Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread Jason Resch
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 6:49 AM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.comwrote: On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 25 Jan 2013, at 17:22, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi Telmo, On

Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread Jason Resch
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 1:36 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 1/26/2013 11:18 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 12:09 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 1/26/2013 9:53 PM, Jason Resch wrote: I think what you are describing comes automatically with comp,

Re: a system of oppression?

2013-01-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, January 27, 2013 2:51:04 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 1/27/2013 2:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:34:37 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: What I really what to know is: what motivates the need to find oppression? What

Re: a system of oppression?

2013-01-27 Thread Telmo Menezes
and where and when they do not, (Capitalist Sub-Saharan Africa) Sub-Saharan Africa is not capitalist, it's a mix of feudalism and anarchy. Capitalism requires private ownership rights. These only exist if an effective judicial system and police are in place so that contracts are enforced.

Consciousness in TOEs

2013-01-27 Thread Russell Standish
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 06:14:48AM -0500, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Russell Standish A TOE should include something about consciousness, I agree. which of course it doesn't, _it_? Whose? which of course is why TOEs by those, such as you, dismissive of Cs generally fail. I'm not

Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread meekerdb
On 1/27/2013 1:19 PM, Jason Resch wrote: It is merely a strange and unsettling thing to understand that when consequence of some fact is not part of your current observer moment, said fact is indeterminant (in many possible states) until you bring some consequence of that fact into your current

Chosen-ness

2013-01-27 Thread freqflyer07281972
Hey everyone, I've been following this group a lot. I read it everyday and enjoy all of the wonderful stuff that comes up, even if some of it tends towards ad hominem, argument from authority, and petitio principi. Hey, we're humans, right? That means we get to make these fallacies, in good

Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread freqflyer07281972
Dear Telmo, With my recent post fresh in my mind, I think I can engage with you a bit on the meaning and purpose of meditation. I think the main point of meditation is to see 'what is' for 'what it is.' Nothing more, nothing less. All 'other worlds, other universes, other possibilities' are

Re: a system of oppression?

2013-01-27 Thread Stephen P. King
On 1/27/2013 4:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, January 27, 2013 2:51:04 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 1/27/2013 2:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:34:37 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: What I really what to know is:

Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread Telmo Menezes
Dear Bruno and Stephen, On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote: On 1/27/2013 7:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The big bang remains awkward with computationalism. It suggest a long and deep computations is going through our state, but comp suggest that the

Re: Big Bang is the simplest possible state?

2013-01-27 Thread Stephen P. King
On 1/27/2013 6:07 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Dear Bruno and Stephen, On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net mailto:stephe...@charter.net wrote: On 1/27/2013 7:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The big bang remains awkward with computationalism. It

Re: meditation

2013-01-27 Thread Telmo Menezes
Dear Dan, On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 11:41 PM, freqflyer07281972 thismindisbud...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Telmo, With my recent post fresh in my mind, I think I can engage with you a bit on the meaning and purpose of meditation. I think the main point of meditation is to see 'what is' for

Re: Big Bang is the simplest possible state?

2013-01-27 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote: On 1/27/2013 6:07 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Dear Bruno and Stephen, On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote: On 1/27/2013 7:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The big bang remains

Re: Big Bang is the simplest possible state?

2013-01-27 Thread Stephen P. King
On 1/27/2013 6:54 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net mailto:stephe...@charter.net wrote: On 1/27/2013 6:07 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Dear Bruno and Stephen, On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Stephen P. King

Re: Chosen-ness

2013-01-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:35:22 PM UTC-5, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Hey everyone, I've been following this group a lot. I read it everyday and enjoy all of the wonderful stuff that comes up, even if some of it tends towards ad hominem, argument from authority, and petitio principi.

Misconceptions of Natural Selection and Evolution

2013-01-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
I was so impressed with this page http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php#a1 that I thought it was worth listing a few here: *MISCONCEPTION: Natural selection involves organisms trying to adapt.* *MISCONCEPTION: Natural selection acts for the good of the species.*

Re: Chosen-ness

2013-01-27 Thread meekerdb
On 1/27/2013 2:35 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Hey everyone, I've been following this group a lot. I read it everyday and enjoy all of the wonderful stuff that comes up, even if some of it tends towards ad hominem, argument from authority, and petitio principi. Hey, we're humans, right? That

Re: Chosen-ness

2013-01-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, January 27, 2013 10:06:37 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 1/27/2013 2:35 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Hey everyone, I've been following this group a lot. I read it everyday and enjoy all of the wonderful stuff that comes up, even if some of it tends towards ad hominem, argument

Re: Chosen-ness

2013-01-27 Thread meekerdb
On 1/27/2013 7:13 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, January 27, 2013 10:06:37 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 1/27/2013 2:35 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Hey everyone, I've been following this group a lot. I read it everyday and enjoy all of the wonderful stuff that comes up,