Re: Re: Lessons from the Block Universe

2013-01-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal The block universe is the physical universe. So we are not part of it, for it does not allow subjectivity, which is nonphysical. Or mathematics or comp, which are also nonphysical. - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list

Re: Hateful

2013-01-31 Thread meekerdb
On 1/30/2013 7:22 AM, Terren Suydam wrote: Personally, my take on religion is that it has been an extraordinarily successful means of organizing groups. I don't religion has ever been any one person's Machiavellian scheme, Then perhaps you unaware of Joesph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard. rather I

All you need to know about creationism and naturalism

2013-01-31 Thread Roger Clough
Creationism is the religious belief that life, the Earth, and the universe are the creation of a supernatural being. Metaphysical naturalism is the religious belief that life, the Earth, and the universe are NOT the creation of a supernatural being. -- You received this message because you

Is God created ?

2013-01-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Kim God is not himself created since the creator of all cannot create himself and still remain a creator. - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-30, 13:19:48 Subject: Re: Hateful On 30 Jan 2013, at 06:06, Kim Jones wrote:

Re: [Metadiscussion] Off topic posting on the everything-list

2013-01-31 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: I'm getting a bit jack of this term metadiscussion becuse it only ever gets applied to what other people are choosing to discuss. People talk about what people want to talk about. It's about taste, perception,

Re: Re: Re: Hateful

2013-01-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Terren Suydam Faith is a gift we are unworthy of. - Receiving the following content - From: Terren Suydam Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-30, 14:21:17 Subject: Re: Re: Hateful Hi Roger, What else is it? If you say it is the arbiter of morality, then that too can

Re: Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence

2013-01-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King IMHO morals imply that you have somebody looking over your shoulder. So they are collective. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-30, 13:44:45 Subject: Re: The least and best means of controlling gun

Re: Re: About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space

2013-01-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Telmo Menezes IMHO more than one universe is unjustified. - Receiving the following content - From: Telmo Menezes Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-30, 12:10:08 Subject: Re: About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space Hi Roger, I find it harder to believe in

Re: Re: Re: Re: The fairness argument and women in the infantry

2013-01-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi John Mikes It didn't feel good. - Receiving the following content - From: John Mikes Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-30, 17:45:12 Subject: Re: Re: Re: The fairness argument and women in the infantry Roger: it is obvious that you have not understand a word of my

Re: Re: About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space

2013-01-31 Thread Telmo Menezes
Hi Roger, In the one universe model, where does the extra computational power of quantum computers come from? On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Telmo Menezes IMHO more than one universe is unjustified. - Receiving the following content

Re: meditation

2013-01-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Jan 2013, at 00:07, Telmo Menezes wrote: Dear Bruno and Stephen, On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: On 1/27/2013 7:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The big bang remains awkward with computationalism. It suggest a long and deep computations is

Re: The fairness argument and women in the infantry

2013-01-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Jan 2013, at 19:05, Telmo Menezes wrote (to Craig): I'm with you in strongly disliking war and violence, by the way. I just don't see a way to survive and be free without an equilibrium based on fire power. I wish that wasn't the case, but what's the way out? I don't think there

Re: [Metadiscussion] Off topic posting on the everything-list

2013-01-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Jan 2013, at 11:05, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: I'm getting a bit jack of this term metadiscussion becuse it only ever gets applied to what other people are choosing to discuss. People talk about what people

Re: [Metadiscussion] Off topic posting on the everything-list

2013-01-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Russell Standish I have no problem with the idea that the universe is sort of ultimately mathematical, except that equations by themselves can't do anything except just be there. So nothing can happen. All you have is an a priori. The other problem I have is that such a universe as you

multiverses and quantum computers

2013-01-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Telmo Menezes Perhaps you're right, but to my limited knowledge, a quantum has infinite paths available between points A and B without invoking another universe. So no problem. - Receiving the following content - From: Telmo Menezes Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-31,

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

2013-01-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Jan 2013, at 22:14, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I am very glad with all your posts on religion, as they confirm my theory according to which (strong) atheists are (strong) Christians in disguise. Wow, calling a guy known for

Re: Re: Re: Hateful

2013-01-31 Thread Terren Suydam
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Terren Suydam Faith is a gift we are unworthy of. Whatever floats your boat. Terren - Receiving the following content - *From:* Terren Suydam terren.suy...@gmail.com *Receiver:* everything-list

Re: Hateful

2013-01-31 Thread Terren Suydam
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 3:46 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 1/30/2013 7:22 AM, Terren Suydam wrote: Personally, my take on religion is that it has been an extraordinarily successful means of organizing groups. I don't religion has ever been any one person's Machiavellian

Re: Is God created ?

2013-01-31 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, January 31, 2013 4:02:58 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Kim God is not himself created since the creator of all cannot create himself and still remain a creator. Why not just say the same of the universe? If the argument for God is that everything that exists must be

Re: [Metadiscussion] Off topic posting on the everything-list

2013-01-31 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
Now that the long time users have spoken, I feel the noobs should be represented as well, so my two virtual cents: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 31 Jan 2013, at 11:05, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Kim Jones

Re: Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence

2013-01-31 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, January 31, 2013 8:05:00 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King IMHO morals imply that you have somebody looking over your shoulder. So they are collective. Interesting. In a sense I agree, but I also agree with Stephen that morals flow from the individual mind. The

Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence

2013-01-31 Thread Stephen P. King
Hi Roger, We can add together our claims to get a better claim as I see a way to bring our ideas together. How about: morals are the rules of the individual generated by interactions with others. I still refuse to accept any coherence to the idea that there is a collective with a mind at

Re: About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space

2013-01-31 Thread Stephen P. King
IMHO more than one universe per entity is unjustified. On 1/31/2013 8:09 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Telmo Menezes IMHO more than one universe is unjustified. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Telmo Menezes mailto:te...@telmomenezes.com *Receiver:* everything-list

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

2013-01-31 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:42:20 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 Bruno Marchal mar...@ulb.ac.be javascript:wrote: i don't believe in the GOD in which you don't believe in. I admit there is a story (probably apocryphal) about Pythagoras killing a man for

Re: Science is a religion by itself.

2013-01-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Jan 2013, at 13:40, socra...@bezeqint.net wrote: About Infinity. / My opinion / How could mere man comprehend infinity? ==. Infinity is the cause of the crisis in Physics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity Why is Infinity the cause of the crisis in Physics? Because we don’t know

Re: The fairness argument and women in the infantry

2013-01-31 Thread meekerdb
On 1/31/2013 5:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Jan 2013, at 19:05, Telmo Menezes wrote (to Craig): I'm with you in strongly disliking war and violence, by the way. I just don't see a way to survive and be free without an equilibrium based on fire power. I wish that wasn't the case, but

Re: Is God created ?

2013-01-31 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: God is not himself created So the God hypothesis can not answer the question of why there is something rather than nothing. since creator of all cannot create himself Thus God is not omnipotent and is demoted to the status of

Re: [Metadiscussion] Off topic posting on the everything-list

2013-01-31 Thread John Mikes
Stathis, you are close to have written what I wanted to add to Russell's outcry. I wrote some time ago to Roger asking him to give back our list - to no avail. Now I would add only one 'catch'phrase of Russell to your invaluable post: ...*the list has been remarkably troll-free* implying that

Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence

2013-01-31 Thread Stephen P. King
On 1/31/2013 12:53 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, January 31, 2013 8:05:00 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King IMHO morals imply that you have somebody looking over your shoulder. So they are collective. Interesting. In a sense I agree, but I also agree with

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

2013-01-31 Thread Stephen P. King
On 1/31/2013 2:00 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:42:20 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 Bruno Marchal mar...@ulb.ac.be javascript: wrote: i don't believe in the GOD in which you don't believe in. I admit there is a story

Re: About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space

2013-01-31 Thread Stephen P. King
On 1/31/2013 4:46 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: What's an entity? Any system whose canonical description can be associated with some kind of fixed point theorem. On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net mailto:stephe...@charter.net wrote: IMHO more

Mathematical Multiverse

2013-01-31 Thread Russell Standish
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 09:01:50AM -0500, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Russell Standish I have no problem with the idea that the universe is sort of ultimately mathematical, except that equations by themselves can't do anything except just be there. So nothing can happen. All you have is an a

Re: [Metadiscussion] Off topic posting on the everything-list

2013-01-31 Thread Russell Standish
Hi PGC, I have never suggested moderation of the list. It has been tried before (not by me), and it doesn't work. Also, if you are aware of the events on the FOR list leading up the the establishment of FOAR, (http://www.hpcoders.com.au/blog/?p=5) you would realise that I'm in perfect agreement

Re: About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space

2013-01-31 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, January 31, 2013 5:38:28 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 1/31/2013 4:46 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: What's an entity? Any system whose canonical description can be associated with some kind of fixed point theorem. Nice. Interestingly this just came up on another

Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

2013-01-31 Thread meekerdb
On 1/31/2013 6:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: you seem to believe that physics does solve the mind-body problem, The evidence very strongly indicates that mind is what the brain does if that's what you mean. So you do assume the existence of a primitive or primitively material brain?

Re: [Metadiscussion] Off topic posting on the everything-list

2013-01-31 Thread Pierz
I agree with you Russell. It's nice to have new thinkers contributing ideas as I was getting bored with Weinberg vs Clark, but at a certain point this group will lose interest for me completely if 90% of the threads are about stuff unrelated to the original 'everything' list concept. It's not

Re: [Metadiscussion] Off topic posting on the everything-list

2013-01-31 Thread Pierz
Might I add, I nearly choked on my proverbial cereal reading the heading 'abortion should be self-limiting since it cleans the gene pool' or some such crap from rclough, and was about to fire back until I realized that provocation is the *purpose* of trolling. So - I consider him a troll. On

Re: Is God created ?

2013-01-31 Thread Richard Ruquist
That just semantics. In my metaphysical string cosmology god is created by the compactification of space dimensions. On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Kim God is not himself created since the creator of all cannot create himself and still remain a

Re: multiverses and quantum computers

2013-01-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Jan 2013, at 15:15, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Telmo Menezes Perhaps you're right, but to my limited knowledge, a quantum has infinite paths available between points A and B without invoking another universe. Once we are able to use (classical) information obtained in the other quantum

Re: About the Infinite Repetition of Histories in Space

2013-01-31 Thread Stephen P. King
On 1/31/2013 6:12 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, January 31, 2013 5:38:28 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 1/31/2013 4:46 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: What's an entity? Any system whose canonical description can be associated with some kind of fixed point

Re: Is God created ?

2013-01-31 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: In my metaphysical string cosmology god is created by the compactification of space dimensions. Then God was created just like we were and it's rather silly to worship Him; if you must worship something (and I have no idea why you