Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

2013-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/1/2013 7:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: And here you come back with your vocabulary problem. You don't believe in the fairy tale version of christian God, and for some mysterious reason you want throw out all notion of gods like if it was the only one. That's not accurate. I am happy to

That entropy is nonphysical (being a measure of information) while energy in the brain is physical (thermal)

2013-02-02 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Roger Clough F = U - TS points out a curious relationship between information, which is nonphysical, mental and part of mind, hence S, and energy U or F , which is physical so part of the brain. - Receiving the following content - From: Roger Clough Receiver: -

Separating science from politics

2013-02-02 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Philip Benjamin My view is that we constantly need to discern and separate science from politics, where global warming, alternative energy, and evolution/creationism are prime examples of such a confusion. - Receiving the following content - From: Philip Benjamin Receiver:

Re: Re: Mathematical Multiverse

2013-02-02 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Russell Standish Sorry, I don't have a copy of your book. - Receiving the following content - From: Russell Standish Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-02-01, 16:52:09 Subject: Re: Mathematical Multiverse On Fri, Feb 01, 2013 at 11:32:27AM -0500, Roger Clough wrote: Hi

Re: Re: Re: [Metadiscussion] Off topic posting on the everything-list

2013-02-02 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Russell Standish Fine. - Receiving the following content - From: Russell Standish Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-02-01, 16:54:48 Subject: Re: Re: [Metadiscussion] Off topic posting on the everything-list On Fri, Feb 01, 2013 at 11:30:39AM -0500, Roger Clough wrote: Hi

Re: Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.

2013-02-02 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb God is not in spacetime, which is extended, so he doesn't physically exist. He is intelligence, etc., which is not extended, exists beyond spacetime, and is nonphysical. You don't have to think of God as a person, or believe in any fairy tales (whatever they are, I don't know)

How can intelligence be physical ?

2013-02-02 Thread Roger Clough
Hi socra...@bezeqint.net and Craig, and all, How can intelligence be physical ? How can meaning be physical ? How can thinking be physical ? How can knowing be physical ? How can life or consciousness or free will be physical ? IMHO You need to consider what is really going on:

Re: Re: Lessons from the Block Universe

2013-02-02 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Hi 2013/1/30 Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com It is to me. I think it is very unlikely that the motions and evolutions of star and galaxies and in my model even universes could be strongly affected by biological consciousness But then, what is the anthropic principle about? --

Re: multiverses and quantum computers

2013-02-02 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 01 Feb 2013, at 09:46, Telmo Menezes wrote: Hi Bruno, On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 31 Jan 2013, at 15:15, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Telmo Menezes Perhaps you're

Re: multiverses and quantum computers

2013-02-02 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 8:39 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/1/2013 12:46 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Hi Bruno, On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 31 Jan 2013, at 15:15, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Telmo Menezes Perhaps you're right,

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013-02-02 Thread Telmo Menezes
Hi Roger, I don't really understand how people can object to the idea of physical/mechanical intelligence now that we live in a world where we're surrounded by it. Google searches, computers that can beat the best human chess player, autonomous rovers in Mars, face recognition, automatic stock

Re: Big Bang is the simplest possible state?

2013-02-02 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 2:13 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote: On 1/27/2013 6:54 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote: On 1/27/2013 6:07 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Dear Bruno and Stephen, On Sun, Jan 27,

Re: That entropy is nonphysical (being a measure of information) while energy in the brain is physical (thermal)

2013-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
Information is private sensory input. Energy is public motor output. Everything is physical, nothing is non-physical, but physical includes everything. Private physics is experiences which make time. Public physics is all experience, viewed from a given instant, location, and sensory scope,

Re: multiverses and quantum computers

2013-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, February 2, 2013 2:39:53 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 2/1/2013 12:46 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Hi Bruno, On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Bruno Marchal mar...@ulb.ac.bejavascript: wrote: On 31 Jan 2013, at 15:15, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Telmo Menezes Perhaps you're

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, February 2, 2013 4:02:46 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi socr...@bezeqint.net javascript: and Craig, and all, How can intelligence be physical ? How can meaning be physical ? How can thinking be physical ? How can knowing be physical ? How can life or consciousness or free will

Re: Re: Re: Lessons from the Block Universe

2013-02-02 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Alberto G. Corona Does your version of mind actually do anything ? - Receiving the following content - From: Alberto G. Corona Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-02-02, 04:43:54 Subject: Re: Re: Lessons from the Block Universe I do think that a block universe can contain minds

Re: Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013-02-02 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Telmo Menezes Agreed, computers can be, or at least seem to be, intelligent, but they are slaves to mathematical codes, which are not material. A turing machine is not material, it is an idea. - Receiving the following content - From: Telmo Menezes Receiver: everything-list

A state with more than one governor ?

2013-02-02 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen, A state with more than one governor is perhaps best described as a civil war. And you can only have one pilot on a boat. In short, any living entity can only have one pilot or decision maker. Even a representational govt such as we have here in the USA ultimately has a single man

Re: Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013-02-02 Thread Telmo Menezes
Hi Roger, On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Telmo Menezes Agreed, computers can be, or at least seem to be, intelligent, but they are slaves to mathematical codes, which are not material. A turing machine is not material, it is an idea. Ok

Re: Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013-02-02 Thread Roger Clough
Hi socra...@bezeqint.net Leibniz's and Kant's idealisms are roughly equivalent to neuroscience's double aspect theory, which is fairly widely accepted, as is Kant, by the neuroscience community. Leibniz is too difficult to understand to be widely accepted. - Receiving the following content

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, February 2, 2013 6:05:53 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: Hi Roger, I don't really understand how people can object to the idea of physical/mechanical intelligence now that we live in a world where we're surrounded by it. Google searches, computers that can beat the best human

Re: Re: Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013-02-02 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Telmo Menezes By material I mean physical. Decartes similarly defines the physical as being extended in space. Mathematics is not extended in space, so is nonphysical. A Turing machine is conceived of as having a tape with holes in it, but it can be used mathematically without physically

Re: A state with more than one governor ?

2013-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, February 2, 2013 8:55:18 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Stephen, A state with more than one governor is perhaps best described as a civil war. And you can only have one pilot on a boat. In short, any living entity can only have one pilot or decision maker. ...one decision

Re: Re: Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, February 2, 2013 9:10:49 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Telmo Menezes By material I mean physical. Decartes similarly defines the physical as being extended in space. Mathematics is not extended in space, so is nonphysical. A Turing machine is conceived of as having a tape

Re: A state with more than one governor ?

2013-02-02 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/2/2013 9:13 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, February 2, 2013 8:55:18 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Stephen, A state with more than one governor is perhaps best described as a civil war. And you can only have one pilot on a boat. In short, any living entity can only

Re: Big Bang is the simplest possible state?

2013-02-02 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/2/2013 6:19 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 2:13 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net mailto:stephe...@charter.net wrote: On 1/27/2013 6:54 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net

Re: Re: Re: Lessons from the Block Universe

2013-02-02 Thread Alberto G. Corona
In the world of the mind, that is, in what we call reality, it causes everithing because causality is another phenomenon introduced by the mind (1p) In the timeless view, there is no causality buy casualty Viewed from above in a broad perspective, then to cause something is to select it, so

Re: Re: Lessons from the Block Universe

2013-02-02 Thread Richard Ruquist
On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 4:18 AM, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com wrote: Hi 2013/1/30 Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com It is to me. I think it is very unlikely that the motions and evolutions of star and galaxies and in my model even universes could be strongly affected by biological

Re: Re: Lessons from the Block Universe

2013-02-02 Thread Alberto G. Corona
DonĀ“t limit yourself to the math of string theory . there may be argued that any mathematical figure exist, including the ones with no interesting structure or simetry of constants including ranndom structures, that is with a high kolmogorov complexity. That means that everithing may exist . Not

Re: Re: Lessons from the Block Universe

2013-02-02 Thread Richard Ruquist
That everything possible may have mathematical existence is my fundamental hypothesis. How much of this everything that can possibly become physically existent depends on the definition of physical which in turn depends on theory. MWI theory predicts a near infinity of possibilities within a

Re: multiverses and quantum computers

2013-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2013 2:43 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 8:39 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/1/2013 12:46 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Hi Bruno, On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be

Re: How can intelligence be physical ?

2013-02-02 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: On Saturday, February 2, 2013 6:05:53 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: Hi Roger, I don't really understand how people can object to the idea of physical/mechanical intelligence now that we live in a world where we're

Re: Big Bang is the simplest possible state?

2013-02-02 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote: On 2/2/2013 6:19 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 2:13 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote: On 1/27/2013 6:54 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Stephen P.

Re: There are no reasons to believe in God

2013-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, February 2, 2013 1:29:50 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 Roger Clough rcl...@verizon.net javascript:wrote: There are no reasons to believe in God That is incorrect, it's not random, there is a reason you believe in God. Humans are genetically programed by