Re: Brain teaser

2013-03-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 Mar 2013, at 21:37, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/9/2013 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Mar 2013, at 13:58, Stephen P. King wrote (to Alberto Corona): We are machines, very sophisticated, but machines nonetheless and doubly so! I don't think we know that. Hi Bruno, Of

Re: Brain teaser

2013-03-10 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/10/2013 4:02 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Mar 2013, at 21:37, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/9/2013 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Mar 2013, at 13:58, Stephen P. King wrote (to Alberto Corona): We are machines, very sophisticated, but machines nonetheless and doubly so! I don't

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Mar 2013, at 01:48, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, March 9, 2013 7:26:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/9/2013 4:06 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:30:53 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 9:23 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: Brain teaser

2013-03-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Mar 2013, at 09:31, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/10/2013 4:02 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Mar 2013, at 21:37, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/9/2013 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Mar 2013, at 13:58, Stephen P. King wrote (to Alberto Corona): We are machines, very

Re: Brain teaser

2013-03-10 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/10/2013 5:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 10 Mar 2013, at 09:31, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/10/2013 4:02 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Mar 2013, at 21:37, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/9/2013 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Mar 2013, at 13:58, Stephen P. King wrote (to Alberto

Re: Brain teaser

2013-03-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Mar 2013, at 11:26, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/10/2013 5:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 10 Mar 2013, at 09:31, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/10/2013 4:02 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Mar 2013, at 21:37, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/9/2013 6:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Mar

Occam's Razor, Vacuum and the Scheme of the primary conditions of existence.

2013-03-10 Thread socra...@bezeqint.net
Occam's Razor, Vacuum and the Scheme of the primary conditions of existence. ==. Vacuum is a Negative Euclidean space (-2D) so called Pseudo- Euclidean space. It is the simplest reference frame - like the Euclidean space ( 2D). Now I will put a virtual - ideal particle in this

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 12:10:04 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/9/2013 5:53 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, March 9, 2013 8:13:38 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/9/2013 4:48 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, March 9, 2013 7:26:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/9/2013

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 4:33:43 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 10 Mar 2013, at 01:48, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, March 9, 2013 7:26:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/9/2013 4:06 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:30:53 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 12:16:06 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/9/2013 7:38 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: A person can resist their both their environment and genetic programming, And you know this how? Because identical twins can intentionally lead very different lives. We can rebel

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 12:13:55 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/9/2013 6:23 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: An automatic pilot only controls the plane to the extent that it extends human intentions to control the plane. The automatic pilot can just as easily be set to crash the plane into a

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread spudboy100
Moreover, some people appear to hang tough with life, and do not commit suicide, despite the intolerable conditions of their life. Which is something of a puzzle, I suppose. Some people do and some people don't. So maybe its a biological condition that makes us hang in there? -Original

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 11:35:31 AM UTC-4, spudb...@aol.com wrote: Moreover, some people appear to hang tough with life, and do not commit suicide, despite the intolerable conditions of their life. Which is something of a puzzle, I suppose. Some people do and some people don't. So

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

2013-03-10 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: What I am saying though is that even a perfect correlation does not mean direct causation. Everyone has a brain and a heart, but that doesn't mean the brain causes the heart. Up to now whenever we observe a fully functioning

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: Everyone except free will deniers know exactly what free will is. I am NOT a free will denier anymore than I am a burp denier, and I can assure you I don't know what free will is supposed to mean and neither do you. It needs

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 12:43:38 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: Everyone except free will deniers know exactly what free will is. I am NOT a free will denier anymore than I am a burp denier, and I can assure you I

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 11:57:16 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: What I am saying though is that even a perfect correlation does not mean direct causation. Everyone has a brain and a heart, but that doesn't mean the

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread meekerdb
On 3/10/2013 1:13 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: If there are some day machines among us which behave just like humans and they engage in criminal behaviour should they be destroyed? Will there be at least some sort of process whereby it is determined if the machine is guilty or not, or would

Re: Generalized Löb's Theorem

2013-03-10 Thread advancedguidance
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 4:51:56 PM UTC+2, advanced...@list.ru wrote: On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 4:48:10 PM UTC+2, advanced...@list.ru wrote: On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:33:28 PM UTC+2, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 3/5/2013 6:23 AM, advanced...@list.ru wrote: On Tuesday, March 5,

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread spudboy100
Question- I also thought determinism mean't that you could predict where and when, a particle could move. But that Werner Heisenberg, said that you could determine, on, but never the other. Would you say that the universe is predictable and Heisenberg might be wrong? Thanks. Mitch

Re: Brain teaser

2013-03-10 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/10/2013 5:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 10 Mar 2013, at 09:31, Stephen P. King wrote: OK, what generates or requires the stratification into levels? To ask a machine about herself (like in self-duplication experiences), you need to represent the machine in the language available

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread meekerdb
On 3/10/2013 1:08 PM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote: Question- I also thought determinism mean't that you could predict where and when, a particle could move. But that Werner Heisenberg, said that you could determine, on, but never the other. Would you say that the universe is predictable and

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 5:51:35 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/10/2013 1:08 PM, spudb...@aol.com javascript: wrote: Question- I also thought determinism mean't that you could predict where and when, a particle could move. But that Werner Heisenberg, said that you could determine, on,

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, March 10, 2013 12:16:06 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/9/2013 7:38 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: A person can resist their both their environment and genetic programming, And you know this how? Because

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread meekerdb
On 3/10/2013 4:57 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, March 10, 2013 5:51:35 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/10/2013 1:08 PM, spudb...@aol.com javascript: wrote: Question- I also thought determinism mean't that you could predict where and when, a particle could move. But that

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:59:11 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Sunday, March 10, 2013 12:16:06 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/9/2013 7:38 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: A person can resist

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 4:12 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: No, that would only make sense if people had control of their own actions independently of your idea of physics. Punishing stones who roll down a hill is not going to prevent similar rollings from happening in the

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread meekerdb
On 3/10/2013 5:08 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:59:11 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: On Sunday, March 10, 2013 12:16:06 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/9/2013

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 8:11:25 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 4:12 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: No, that would only make sense if people had control of their own actions independently of your idea of physics. Punishing stones who

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 8:19:21 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/10/2013 5:08 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:59:11 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, March 10, 2013 12:16:06 AM

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: That would mean it is impossible to have voluntary control of one's actions independently of physics. No, it means that physics must support voluntary control of one's actions. Now you are saying the opposite.

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: And you're confusing its complexity with magic. Magic is the official go-to straw man of the pseudoskeptic. It just means 'I have no argument so you must be stupid.' I don't think you understand the word magic.

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 9:33:52 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: That would mean it is impossible to have voluntary control of one's actions independently of physics. No, it means that physics

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 9:35:37 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: And you're confusing its complexity with magic. Magic is the official go-to straw man of the pseudoskeptic. It just means 'I

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
sorry, that was the wrong link: http://s33light.org/post/44836667412 is the right one On Sunday, March 10, 2013 9:35:37 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: And you're confusing its complexity with magic.

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: sorry, that was the wrong link: http://s33light.org/post/44836667412 is the right one What you don't address in that list is the specific criticism I have made: 1. According to physics as we know it, everything in the

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 10, 2013 10:39:50 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: sorry, that was the wrong link: http://s33light.org/post/44836667412 is the right one What you don't address in that list is the

Re: Dartmouth neuroscientist finds free will has neural basis

2013-03-10 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, March 10, 2013 10:39:50 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: sorry, that was the wrong link: http://s33light.org/post/44836667412 is the

Re: Occam's Razor, Vacuum and the Scheme of the primary conditions of existence.

2013-03-10 Thread socra...@bezeqint.net
By the way: According to Charle’s law and the consequence of the third law of thermodynamics as the thermodynamic temperature of a system approaches absolute zero the volume of particles approaches zero too. It means the particles must have flat forms. They must have geometrical form of a