Re: Losing Control

2013-03-20 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: All I am saying is that you should start with something that is not already loaded with your conclusion, then reach your conclusion through argument. If I intend to do something I do it because I want to do it. On

Re: True?

2013-03-20 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 19.03.2013 22:25 Alberto G. Corona said the following: Since I´m more in the side of Aquinas/Aristotle -or even Plato sometimes- I don not share the Occam views.Occam was a nominalist, that is rejected the existence of universals, he did not like to think in terms universals, because if

Re: True?

2013-03-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Mar 2013, at 22:25, Alberto G. Corona wrote: Since I´m more in the side of Aquinas/Aristotle -or even Plato sometimes- ? I see Plato and Aristotle as the most opposite view we can have on reality. (To be sure by Aristotle I means its usual interpretation by the followers.

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Mar 2013, at 23:40, meekerdb wrote: On 3/19/2013 11:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 18:35, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 17:34, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: snip (see the preview post) As an example, I could point you to the Genome Wager between Lewis

Re: A philosopher making the Duplication argument

2013-03-20 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: http://www.closertotruth.com/video-profile/What-is-the-Nature-of-Personal-Identity-Peter-van-Inwagen-/176 He starts off with a straightforward, materialist position. Then he reveals he is a Christian, believes in the

Re: Losing Control

2013-03-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Mar 2013, at 00:14, meekerdb wrote: On 3/19/2013 3:19 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: I'll agree on your terms, but you have to make it explicit. My terms are:

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:44:02 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Correlation, even 100% correlation, does not equal causation. BULLSHIT! If when X is changed there is ALWAYS a change in Y in the

Re: Losing Control

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:03:29 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: All I am saying is that you should start with something that is not already loaded with your conclusion, then reach your conclusion

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Tom Bayley
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:39:40 PM UTC, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:44:02 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comwrote: Correlation, even 100% correlation, does not equal causation. BULLSHIT! If

Re: A philosopher making the Duplication argument

2013-03-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Mar 2013, at 11:43, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: http://www.closertotruth.com/video-profile/What-is-the-Nature-of-Personal-Identity-Peter-van-Inwagen-/176 He starts off with a straightforward, materialist

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: If when X is changed there is ALWAYS a change in Y in the same direction, and when Y changes you can ALWAYS find a change in X that preceded it, then X causes Y. IT'S WHAT THE WORD CAUSES MEANS! Two flowers bloom at

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Mar 2013, at 17:09, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: If when X is changed there is ALWAYS a change in Y in the same direction, and when Y changes you can ALWAYS find a change in X that preceded it, then X causes Y. IT'S WHAT

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 11:35:00 AM UTC-4, Tom Bayley wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:39:40 PM UTC, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:44:02 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comwrote:

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 Tom Bayley tjp.bay...@gmail.com wrote: I always hear an audible click very shortly after I see the light switch on. There is no direct causation, Yes but how do you know that, how can you prove there is no causation? It's easy, just buy another light switch of the same

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:09:24 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: If when X is changed there is ALWAYS a change in Y in the same direction, and when Y changes you can ALWAYS find a change in X that preceded

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: If when X happens Y always happens AND when X doesn't happen Y never happens then we can say with great confidence that X causes Y because that's what the word causes means. Does this not imply that X causes Y if and

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:37:54 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 Tom Bayley tjp.b...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: I always hear an audible click very shortly after I see the light switch on. There is no direct causation, Yes but how do you know that, how can you

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: We can write books and other people can read them, so that must prove that consciousness is not caused by neurochemistry. What the hell??? John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:55:50 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: We can write books and other people can read them, so that must prove that consciousness is not caused by neurochemistry. What the

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 , Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: We can write books and other people can read them, so that must prove that consciousness is not caused by neurochemistry. What the hell??? Books aren't neurological, right? Right, but they are certainly material.

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-20 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/20/2013 6:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 23:40, meekerdb wrote: I think it likely that the first applications will be providing soldiers with augmented senses and communication. Just as AI research has been funded by the military. Threats of war are often used to

'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130320115111.htm We are examining the activity in the cerebral cortex *as a whole*. The brain is a non-stop, always-active system. When we perceive something, the information does not end up in a specific *part* of our brain. Rather, it is added to

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 1:44:23 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 , Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: We can write books and other people can read them, so that must prove that consciousness is not caused by neurochemistry. What the hell???

Re: True?

2013-03-20 Thread meekerdb
On 3/20/2013 2:22 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 19.03.2013 22:25 Alberto G. Corona said the following: Since I´m more in the side of Aquinas/Aristotle -or even Plato sometimes- I don not share the Occam views.Occam was a nominalist, that is rejected the existence of universals, he did not like

Re: True?

2013-03-20 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 20.03.2013 20:18 meekerdb said the following: On 3/20/2013 2:22 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 19.03.2013 22:25 Alberto G. Corona said the following: ... I see a bit of irony in the fact that people who believe in physical reality often call to a principle developed by Occam. What's the

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-20 Thread meekerdb
On 3/20/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 6:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 23:40, meekerdb wrote: I think it likely that the first applications will be providing soldiers with augmented senses and communication. Just as AI research has been funded by the

Re: 'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread meekerdb
On 3/20/2013 11:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130320115111.htm We are examining the activity in the cerebral cortex /as a whole/. The brain is a non-stop, always-active system. When we perceive something, the information does not end up in a

Re: A philosopher making the Duplication argument

2013-03-20 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/20/2013 6:43 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: http://www.closertotruth.com/video-profile/What-is-the-Nature-of-Personal-Identity-Peter-van-Inwagen-/176 He starts off with a straightforward, materialist position.

Re: 'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:07:10 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 11:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130320115111.htm We are examining the activity in the cerebral cortex *as a whole*. The brain is a non-stop, always-active system. When

Re: True?

2013-03-20 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/20/2013 2:51 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2013/3/20 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be On 19 Mar 2013, at 22:25, Alberto G. Corona wrote: Since I惴 more in the side of Aquinas/Aristotle -or even Plato sometimes- ? I see Plato and Aristotle

Re: True?

2013-03-20 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/20/2013 4:01 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 20.03.2013 20:18 meekerdb said the following: On 3/20/2013 2:22 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 19.03.2013 22:25 Alberto G. Corona said the following: ... I see a bit of irony in the fact that people who believe in physical reality often call to

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-20 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/20/2013 4:04 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/20/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 6:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 23:40, meekerdb wrote: I think it likely that the first applications will be providing soldiers with augmented senses and communication. Just as

Re: 'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/20/2013 4:29 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:07:10 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 11:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130320115111.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130320115111.htm

Re: True?

2013-03-20 Thread meekerdb
On 3/20/2013 1:01 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 20.03.2013 20:18 meekerdb said the following: On 3/20/2013 2:22 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 19.03.2013 22:25 Alberto G. Corona said the following: ... I see a bit of irony in the fact that people who believe in physical reality often call to

Re: 'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread meekerdb
On 3/20/2013 1:29 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:07:10 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 11:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130320115111.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130320115111.htm We

Re: 'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:30:58 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 3/20/2013 4:29 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:07:10 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 11:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

Re: 'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:11:18 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 1:29 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:07:10 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 11:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130320115111.htm We are

Re: Mind is a quantum computer

2013-03-20 Thread meekerdb
On 3/20/2013 2:19 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 4:04 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/20/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 6:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Mar 2013, at 23:40, meekerdb wrote: I think it likely that the first applications will be providing soldiers with

Re: 'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread meekerdb
On 3/20/2013 2:21 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 4:07 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/20/2013 11:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130320115111.htm We are examining the activity in the cerebral cortex /as a whole/. The brain is a non-stop,

Re: 'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread meekerdb
On 3/20/2013 3:31 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:11:18 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 1:29 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:07:10 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 11:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

Re: 'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/20/2013 6:20 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:30:58 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 3/20/2013 4:29 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:07:10 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 11:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

Re: Losing Control

2013-03-20 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: You say it doesn't make sense that intentional could come from unintentional but I don't see that at all, not at all. You claim to have an insight that other people don't have. Lots of people have had this insight.

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Tom Bayley
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:44:23 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 , Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: We can write books and other people can read them, so that must prove that consciousness is not caused by neurochemistry. What the hell???

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread meekerdb
On 3/20/2013 4:51 PM, Tom Bayley wrote: There is not a direct link between the light switch and the light going on either, the closing of the light switch just caused a current to flow in the wire, the current flow didn't cause the light either it just caused the filament in the

Re: 'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/20/2013 6:37 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/20/2013 2:21 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 4:07 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/20/2013 11:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130320115111.htm We are examining the activity in the cerebral cortex /as a

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:51:50 PM UTC-4, Tom Bayley wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:44:23 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 , Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: We can write books and other people can read them, so that must prove that consciousness is

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:26:04 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 4:51 PM, Tom Bayley wrote: There is not a direct link between the light switch and the light going on either, the closing of the light switch just caused a current to flow in the wire, the current flow didn't

Re: 'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:52:20 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 3/20/2013 6:20 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:30:58 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 3/20/2013 4:29 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:07:10 PM

Re: 'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread meekerdb
On 3/20/2013 6:32 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 6:37 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/20/2013 2:21 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 4:07 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/20/2013 11:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130320115111.htm We are examining

Re: 'Brain Waves' Challenge Area-Specific View of Brain Activity

2013-03-20 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/20/2013 9:41 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/20/2013 6:32 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 6:37 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/20/2013 2:21 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/20/2013 4:07 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/20/2013 11:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

Re: Losing Control

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:32:11 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: You say it doesn't make sense that intentional could come from unintentional but I don't see that at all, not at all. You claim to

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 9:44:38 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 6:37 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:26:04 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 4:51 PM, Tom Bayley wrote: There is not a direct link between the light switch and the light going

Re: Losing Control

2013-03-20 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: At least you now agree that the atoms in my body could be replaced and I would feel the same. What if the atoms were replaced by a person: would I still have free will or would I, as you claim for a computer, only

Fwd: Re: [FOM] From theorems of infinity to axioms of infinity

2013-03-20 Thread Stephen P. King
Hi Folks, I apologize for crossforwarding a post, but this one is too good to not... Original Message Subject:Re: [FOM] From theorems of infinity to axioms of infinity Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 22:23:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Y. Chow tc...@alum.mit.edu