Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

2013-09-21 Thread meekerdb
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it worse than that. Doesn't the smartphone (or cel phone) radiate even when you're not talking, so that the system knows where you are if someone calls you? The only improvement in efficiency I could suggest is electronically steerable antennae to reduce the

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

2013-09-21 Thread meekerdb
On 9/20/2013 8:49 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote: The way to completely avoid Landauer's limit is to make all operations reversible, never lose any information so that the whole calculation could be reversed. Then there's no entropy dumped to the environment and Landauer's limit doesn't apply.

Re: When will Popperian come back.Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

2013-09-21 Thread Alberto G. Corona
The most interesting and less known work of Popper is the foundation of evolutionary epistemology http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epistemology-evolutionary/ which is much more ambitious that falsacionism and mere demarcation and is far far more interesting. 2013/9/20 Bruno Marchal

Re: Implicate order

2013-09-21 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 05:08:00PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: On 9/20/2013 3:50 PM, LizR wrote: It's a long time since I read Wholeness but I seem to recall coming to the conclusion that Bohm's version was like the MWI with one world singled out (somehow) to be real. Or am I getting mixed up?

Re: When will Popperian come back.Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

2013-09-21 Thread LizR
On 21 September 2013 12:15, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 9/20/2013 3:53 PM, LizR wrote: On 21 September 2013 05:48, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 9/20/2013 9:53 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Note also that Truth, by definition cannot be Popperian: it is not falsifiable,

Re: Scientists claim discovery of life coming to Earth from space

2013-09-21 Thread Telmo Menezes
Unfortunately this appears to be bs: http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/09/20/136220/alien-life-story-of-dubious-provenance-goes-viral (but what do I know!) Best, Telmo. On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Chris de Morsella cdemorse...@yahoo.com wrote: Seems like the Pangea hypothesis might

Re: Unexpected Hanging

2013-09-21 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 6:36 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 9/20/2013 2:13 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 9:04 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Also some serious mathematicians are finitists. The Meaning of Pure Mathematics Author(s): Jan

Re: Unexpected Hanging

2013-09-21 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 19 Sep 2013, at 16:51, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 18 Sep 2013, at 21:45, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Bruno Marchal

Re: Unexpected Hanging

2013-09-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Sep 2013, at 18:36, meekerdb wrote: On 9/20/2013 2:13 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 9:04 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Also some serious mathematicians are finitists. The Meaning of Pure Mathematics Author(s): Jan MycielskiSource: Journal of

Re: How PIP solves the hard problem of consciousness

2013-09-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Sep 2013, at 19:06, meekerdb wrote: On 9/20/2013 7:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But monkey's fetus seems able to dream of trees before seeing them Do you have a citation for that? Hmm... Good question. The answer is probably yes, hopefully not in a book in a furniture warehouse,

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

2013-09-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Sep 2013, at 19:08, meekerdb wrote: On 9/20/2013 7:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Sep 2013, at 19:31, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: A computation is a process. I can agree with this, unless you meant a physical

Re: When will Popperian come back.Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

2013-09-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Sep 2013, at 19:48, meekerdb wrote: On 9/20/2013 9:53 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Note also that Truth, by definition cannot be Popperian: it is not falsifiable, of course. That's a common point with consciousness here-and-now, which is not falsifiable nor doubtable, yet true (except

Re: How PIP solves the hard problem of consciousness

2013-09-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Sep 2013, at 20:20, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, September 20, 2013 10:39:09 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Sep 2013, at 18:47, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, September 19, 2013 10:55:15 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 18 Sep 2013, at 22:11, Craig Weinberg

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

2013-09-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Sep 2013, at 21:00, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: As Rolf Landauer said Computation is physical, Yes, Landauer is a major proponents of that idea. If that is true, then computationalism is false. Bullshit. I gave you

Re: Unexpected Hanging

2013-09-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Sep 2013, at 21:18, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, September 20, 2013 10:14:14 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Sep 2013, at 17:48, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, September 19, 2013 10:43:23 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 18 Sep 2013, at 22:07, Craig Weinberg

Re: Implicate order

2013-09-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Sep 2013, at 22:06, meekerdb wrote: A book that presents Bohm's QM sympathetically is Quantum Mechanics by James T. Cushing. Note that the book by David Albert, Quantum Mechanics, which introduces very well QM, including Everett, is also quite sympathetic with Bohm's theory. He

Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

2013-09-21 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: And the, what is the meaning of computation is physical? Which word didn't you understand? It looks to me that this consists in single out some universal system and declare that only running it makes things real.[...] What does

RE: What gives philosophers a bad name?

2013-09-21 Thread Chris de Morsella
Brent I believe you are correct; cellphones regularly broadcast in order to participate in the network. A steerable antenna could cut power usage by a large factor - maybe even by an order of magnitude - but it would need to be able to constantly reorient itself as it gets shifted around the x,y

RE: Scientists claim discovery of life coming to Earth from space

2013-09-21 Thread Chris de Morsella
Damn there goes pangea lol I saw this yesterday on Kurzweil's blog and went back to the post to check it and saw they had put out this UPDATE to the original, which I am pasting below. -Chris UPDATE Sept. 21, 2013 1:00 EDT In a blog post on KurzweilAI, theoretical biologist Dr. Richard

Re: Implicate order

2013-09-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Sep 2013, at 00:50, LizR wrote: It's a long time since I read Wholeness but I seem to recall coming to the conclusion that Bohm's version was like the MWI with one world singled out (somehow) to be real. Or am I getting mixed up? Was it him who had the idea of pilot waves ? It

Re: Unexpected Hanging

2013-09-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Sep 2013, at 15:10, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 19 Sep 2013, at 16:51, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 18 Sep 2013, at 21:45, Telmo Menezes wrote:

Re: Unexpected Hanging

2013-09-21 Thread meekerdb
On 9/21/2013 7:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 20 Sep 2013, at 18:36, meekerdb wrote: On 9/20/2013 2:13 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 9:04 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Also some serious mathematicians are finitists. The Meaning of Pure Mathematics Author(s):

Re: When will Popperian come back.Re: What gives philosophers a bad name?

2013-09-21 Thread meekerdb
On 9/21/2013 7:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The content might be, There is a flying pink elephant in my room. which is both dubitable and almost certainly false. And if the thought is, I had a conscious thought. that too is dubitable. We agree on this. The indubitable thought is not I was

RE: What gives philosophers a bad name?

2013-09-21 Thread Chris de Morsella
Reversible computing seems like a fascinating possibility, but it is pretty far off. even if economically feasible and mass producible reversible physical logic gates and chip architectures were to be discovered today, the inertia of the existing code base would take many decades to work its way

Re: How PIP solves the hard problem of consciousness

2013-09-21 Thread meekerdb
On 9/21/2013 9:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: No, memories I consider direct experiences, since they require only that we are conscious. Indirect experiences would be experiences which we can only detect using our body's sense organs. Indirect experiences are 3p, thus they are bodies in space,

Russell's question about D. Bohm

2013-09-21 Thread John Mikes
Dear Russell, (some computer-glitch prevented this post to arrive at the list for an automatically included additional addressee's rejection yesterday.) the Peat book seems to be on the physicist's side, just as the Hiley-book (posthumus D.Bohm co-authored) which even pictures DB close to his

Re: Scientists claim discovery of life coming to Earth from space

2013-09-21 Thread John Mikes
Telmo: would you have (by any chance...) a brief identification of something that comes to your mind when speaking about l i f e ? (And please, forget about thebio of this Earthbound Terrestrial Biosphere). (To identify live is a bit easier I think.) John M On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 8:46

RE: How PIP solves the hard problem of consciousness

2013-09-21 Thread Chris de Morsella
In fact the chair the mind sees is quite often a low fidelity rendition of the chair - with by far most sense data discarded along the way, especially if it is on the periphery of the mind's current focus. The chair, in the mind, is rendered only as well as it need be in order for the mind to

Re: How PIP solves the hard problem of consciousness

2013-09-21 Thread meekerdb
On 9/21/2013 6:36 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote: In fact the chair the mind sees is quite often a low fidelity rendition of the chair -- with by far most sense data discarded along the way, especially if it is on the periphery of the mind's current focus. The chair, in the mind, is rendered

Re: Scientists claim discovery of life coming to Earth from space

2013-09-21 Thread Russell Standish
On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 10:52:41AM -0700, Chris de Morsella wrote: Damn there goes pangea lol Just to be persnickety, Pangaea is the name given to the last supercontinent, ca 300Mya. What you are thinking of is panspermia, the idea that life was seeded from space. Cheers --