RE: Is Earth F**ked?

2013-10-31 Thread Chris de Morsella
Will we be around in 100 years? That is an open question. Some will point to the fact that we did not blow ourselves up during the cold war, and we didn't, but times change and the planetary resource equations have also changes, and dramatically so in some cases. During the cold war both the

Re: Neuroscientists discover new 'mini-neural computer' in the brain

2013-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Oct 2013, at 23:26, meekerdb wrote: On 10/29/2013 7:30 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Also with comp, consciousness is NOT a product of the mind. that's still too much an aristotelian way to express the identity thesis. Consciousness is not physical, it is the mental state of person

Re: Neuroscientists discover new 'mini-neural computer' in the brain

2013-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2013, at 00:17, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: To be sure, I don't like the idea of Übermensch. At least we know there is no Übermachine. There is just a universal baby god (the universal person/machine) But this

Re: Neural activity in the brain is harder to disrupt when we are aware of it

2013-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2013, at 02:29, LizR wrote: On 30 October 2013 14:26, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:40:52 PM UTC-4, Liz R wrote: On 30 October 2013 13:24, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 6:52:12 PM UTC-4, Liz R

Re: Neural activity in the brain is harder to disrupt when we are aware of it

2013-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2013, at 03:17, John Mikes wrote: Bruno, Craig and Learned discussion partners: it is hard even to read-in into the endless back-and-forth you exude. At least for me - pretending that I still retain may subjectivity (don't misunderstand: I deny anything 'objective' if not

Re: If human beings are nothing more than matter, why are you conscious as yourself?

2013-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2013, at 06:07, Craig Weinberg wrote: A Quora answer to the following question. Nothing new for me here probably, but It's maybe organized in a more concise way. Philosophy: If human beings are nothing more than matter, why are you conscious as yourself? The implication of

Re: Universe from Pixels?

2013-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2013, at 08:32, Chris de Morsella wrote: Bruno ~ I believe Quantum loop gravity depends on a fine grain structure existing in spacetime. Yes. I agree. I find this natural with GR and QM, but comp imposes some continuum, and if it is given by space, that would simplify the

Re: Step 3

2013-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2013, at 07:03, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:25 PM, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Jason (again) in your response to Brent: Personally I believe no theory that aims to attach persons to one psychological or physiological continuity can be

Re: Neuroscientists discover new 'mini-neural computer' in the brain

2013-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2013, at 12:05, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 2:51 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 10/29/2013 4:17 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: But this is how I see the concept of Übermensch. The idea got horribly distorted by subsequent political events. The ideal of

Re: Douglas Hofstadter Article

2013-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2013, at 17:08, Chris de Morsella wrote: -Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Telmo Menezes Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:50 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Douglas

Re: If human beings are nothing more than matter, why are you conscious as yourself?

2013-10-31 Thread LizR
On 31 October 2013 16:46, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 9:53:17 PM UTC-4, Liz R wrote: On 31 October 2013 14:46, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:00:58 PM UTC-4, Liz R wrote: This is one of the big

Re: Neuroscientists discover new 'mini-neural computer' in the brain

2013-10-31 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, by me, although for an off-topic subject, it is interesting how frequently it comes up. Politics is the blue cheese of debate, it overwhelms all other flavours :) On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 5:50:46 PM

Re: Douglas Hofstadter Article

2013-10-31 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Chris de Morsella cdemorse...@yahoo.com wrote: -Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Telmo Menezes Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:50 AM To:

Re: Universe from Pixels?

2013-10-31 Thread Richard Ruquist
Actually the ESA observations confirmed the prior Fermi Telescope observations that spacetime is smooth at and beyond the Planck scale On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 3:54 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 30 Oct 2013, at 08:32, Chris de Morsella wrote: Bruno ~ I believe Quantum loop

Re: Is Earth F**ked?

2013-10-31 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 10:12 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Original Message --- On the subject of completely fucked up : In December 2012, a pink-haired complex systems researcher named Brad Werner made his way through the throng of 24,000 earth and space scientists

Is language learned by inherited primordial or by platonic language structures ?

2013-10-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Dr.d Although he called it inherited primordial language, Chomsky proposed what I would instead call platonic language structures in view of the philosophies of Plato, Kant and Leibniz, this apparent in view of the rapidity at which language can be learned and communicated. Chinese

Re: Is Earth F**ked?

2013-10-31 Thread Jesse Mazer
I think there's a strong chance climate change will end technological civilization, but I also think the situation is not hopeless, there are reasonably plausible scenarios I can imagine where we would avoid this fate. Chris, you mention disruptive technologies on the energy front but if you are

Re: Is Earth F**ked?

2013-10-31 Thread Richard Ruquist
I think a solar flare will end it first On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Jesse Mazer laserma...@gmail.com wrote: I think there's a strong chance climate change will end technological civilization, but I also think the situation is not hopeless, there are reasonably plausible scenarios I can

Re: For John Clark

2013-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2013, at 18:21, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/10/30 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: Bruno asked me Do you think that you die in a self-duplication experience? and I said that depends on what the

Re: For John Clark

2013-10-31 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: I think this entire matter could be clarified if you could reformulate the following question in such a way that a simple yes or no answer can be given: Do you die if two exact copies of Quentin Anciaux in

Re: For John Clark

2013-10-31 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/10/31 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.comwrote: I think this entire matter could be clarified if you could reformulate the following question in such a way that a simple yes or no answer can be given: Do you die if

Re: Is Earth F**ked?

2013-10-31 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/10/31 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 10/31/2013 3:55 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: I believe there's an important aspect of this type of discussion that is rarely considered. This sort of thing takes almost a religious tone where we are supposed to feel guilty. I'm very suspicious of this

Re: For John Clark

2013-10-31 Thread meekerdb
On 10/31/2013 10:18 AM, John Clark wrote: what is asked is the probability to see moscow, likewise when you measure the spin of the electron, the question is the probability you measure spin up As I said before there is a profound difference between the two. After Everett's thought

Re: For John Clark

2013-10-31 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: this distracts from the question asked, which concerns the first person pov, from the first person pov. That is the first person experience. [...] Comp accepts that both copies are equivalent (with respect to identity)

Re: Dialetheism

2013-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2013, at 16:26, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: This *looks* like a description of the salvia experience, but term like anti-consciousness is a bit pejorative for that, although it has anti-life aspect, pointing on the fact that theology is not much pro-life. That would

Re: For John Clark

2013-10-31 Thread Jason Resch
John, I reformulated the UDA in a way that does not use any pronouns at all, and it doesn't matter if you consider the question from one view or from all the views, the conclusion is the same. Perhaps you wouldn't mind commenting on whether or not you agree with my conclusion. I will re-post it

Re: Neural activity in the brain is harder to disrupt when we are aware of it

2013-10-31 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, October 31, 2013 12:06:52 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Oct 2013, at 18:01, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 4:52:49 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Oct 2013, at 19:15, Craig Weinberg wrote: That assumes that being alive implies

Re: If human beings are nothing more than matter, why are you conscious as yourself?

2013-10-31 Thread Richard Ruquist
Bruno: It is the Indra net of universal numbers reflecting themselves which exists as consequences of the laws of addition or multiplication. Richard: Very Platonic and that is perhaps what programs the Metaverse number net. But from my Aristotelian viewpoint, it is the Indra net of universal

Re: For John Clark

2013-10-31 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/10/31 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: this distracts from the question asked, which concerns the first person pov, from the first person pov. That is the first person experience. [...] Comp accepts that both

Re: Universe from Pixels?

2013-10-31 Thread LizR
Surely this is a very significant result, the equivalent of the Michelson Morley for (relatively large scale) quantisation of space-time? I believe this kills LQG, but what about CDT, spin foams, and (of course) M theory? Does this kill the idea of compactification, or are those Calabi-Yau

Re: Neuroscientists discover new 'mini-neural computer' in the brain

2013-10-31 Thread LizR
So what *was* Neitzsche on about? Did he think everyone is a potential superman (or woman, I hope) ? Was he the first self-help guru? That seems an almost a religious idea, although it may become technologically feasible soon, to some degree ... I don't believe he had any leanings towards a master

Re: Is Earth F**ked?

2013-10-31 Thread LizR
That asumption is used in an effort to motivate people to disprove it. (Oh, and dentists would like to find themselves out of a job... :) On 1 November 2013 06:30, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/10/31 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 10/31/2013 3:55 AM, Telmo Menezes

Re: For John Clark

2013-10-31 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/10/31 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.comwrote: As I said before there is a profound difference between the two. After Everett's thought experiment is over only ONE person is seen by a third party so it's easy to determine

Re: Neuroscientists discover new 'mini-neural computer' in the brain

2013-10-31 Thread meekerdb
On 10/31/2013 1:52 PM, LizR wrote: So what /was/ Neitzsche on about? It's hard to say. He reject systems and believed is seeing things from different perspectives. So he writes a lot things which are inconsistent, at least on the surface. That's why his ideas can be taken up by the Nazis,

Re: For John Clark

2013-10-31 Thread Richard Ruquist
John, you are not the first that Quentin has categorized as a roger or stephen lin. Richard On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/10/31 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.comwrote: As

Re: Are dogs People?

2013-10-31 Thread meekerdb
On 10/31/2013 5:33 PM, http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/opinion/sunday/dogs-are-people-too.html?pagewanted=1 Doesn't seem like news to me. More like Dog bites man. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from

Re: For John Clark

2013-10-31 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: A) The test described where the simulation process forks 8 times and 256 copies are created and they each see a different pattern of the ball changing color Duplicating a brain is not enough, the intelligence has NOT

Re: Are dogs People?

2013-10-31 Thread LizR
Groan! -- The prospect of ferreting out animal emotions scares many scientists. M.R.I.’s are conducted in loud, confined spaces. -- Jeez, I do NOT expect to see the N.Y. Times misusing apostrophes! The ability to experience positive emotions, like love and attachment, would mean that dogs have a

Re: For John Clark

2013-10-31 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: if 've waited too much to put you in the boitakon, meet roger and stephen li I'm guessing that's an insult of some sort but my Quentinspeak is a little rusty so I'm not sure. John K Clark -- You received this

Re: For John Clark

2013-10-31 Thread Jason Resch
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 7:51 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: A) The test described where the simulation process forks 8 times and 256 copies are created and they each see a different pattern of the ball