Re: Spacetime is (nonphysical, platonic) mind

2013-11-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Nov 2013, at 20:21, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/11/11 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 11/11/2013 1:47 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Sure, but if I live infinitely long I will have almost all my experiences older than 75. So when I note that I'm not that old and that seems

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Of course comrade. Why don´t you translate to Europe? Here our party is not only in the University, but in the media too. Here the truth is said: Every disaster is a product of greedy American capitalism, or barbarious zionism. But better though, We need you there in the Capitalist land. Salam

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Nov 2013, at 22:10, Alberto G. Corona wrote: As human beings they were reluctant to provide hard earned data to those who had proved to mere critics - like you - with no interest but to spread doubt. Can ever have been a more clear confession of sectarianism ? Doubt about

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 12:49 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 November 2013 10:55, spudboy...@aol.com wrote: if you want us to give up the bad, dirty, power, then please provide a clean, affordable, abundant substitute. Faster, please. The Sun, of course. Produces millions of times

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Nov 2013, at 22:47, spudboy...@aol.com wrote: Indeed. I look at things a bit different, perhaps. then yourself. I see it, us, as being set against obliteration versus existence. It is never between obliteration and existence, it is always between good quality of life and bad quality

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread LizR
On 13 November 2013 22:06, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 12:49 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 November 2013 10:55, spudboy...@aol.com wrote: if you want us to give up the bad, dirty, power, then please provide a clean, affordable, abundant

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread LizR
Wikipedia on the price of solar panels. The last sentence shows the Moore's law type trend which I hope will continue. Average pricing information divides in three pricing categories: those buying small quantities (modules of all sizes in the kilowatt range annually), mid-range buyers (typically

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Bruno. Thanks for your measured style and your gentle responses, as always. But the prevention principle, that has been incorporated to the French Constitution a few years ago, has disastrous consequences. We have only one planet. But we have only one France. And we have only one life. And we

Re: Spacetime is (nonphysical, platonic) mind

2013-11-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 13 Nov 2013, at 00:33, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/11/12 Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com Every one of the perhaps inifinite copies of you will grow old and die in less than 150 years. There is no quantum immortality Well it's cool asserting things... but you should develop more,

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 10:18 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 November 2013 22:06, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 12:49 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 November 2013 10:55, spudboy...@aol.com wrote: if you want us to give up the bad,

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 13 Nov 2013, at 10:32, Alberto G. Corona wrote: Bruno. Thanks for your measured style and your gentle responses, as always. But the prevention principle, that has been incorporated to the French Constitution a few years ago, has disastrous consequences. We have only one planet. But we

Re: Spacetime is (nonphysical, platonic) mind

2013-11-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Nov 2013, at 18:15, meekerdb wrote: On 11/12/2013 2:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Both with Comp and with Everett-QM we have lost that unique theoretical evidence, because our best current explanation (comp, or QM) makes that mind-brain identity non sensical. I don't see anything

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Alberto G. Corona
I would be easy to make a joke of your comments about cannabis, but it would not have been fair. But If I take it seriously, I can not figh both conspiranoic theories in the same thread. The deniers of global warming hell and the deniers of cannabis heaven. It´s too much for me. 2013/11/13

Comp renormalization (was Spacetime is (nonphysical, platonic) mind

2013-11-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Nov 2013, at 18:19, meekerdb wrote: On 11/12/2013 2:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Nov 2013, at 04:35, LizR wrote: On 12 November 2013 16:03, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 11/11/2013 6:38 PM, LizR wrote: Benjamin Button lived his life in reverse. Oh, right, like the

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread spudboy100
I get your point completely. The financial motivation, is, of course, always there. My point is, if this easily, doable, somebody on Earth somewhere, would fling their middle finger to the oil companies direction, by building and supporting an example. My belief is that going solar is a very,

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 2:39 PM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote: I get your point completely. The financial motivation, is, of course, always there. My point is, if this easily, doable, somebody on Earth somewhere, would fling their middle finger to the oil companies direction, by building and

Rupert Sheldrake and animal hyper senstivity to the environment

2013-11-13 Thread Roger Clough
Hi George K. Lucey Jr. Interesting project. but you need to look at more subtle events. Thunder and lightning even scare me. There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting

Re: Rupert Sheldrake and animal hyper senstivity to the environment

2013-11-13 Thread Richard Ruquist
In my very limited experience, only Border Collies are afraid of thunder storms. Not Golden Retrievers, or chickens, or rabbits, or horses. We bring all our animals indoors when serious rain approaches. I cannot say that any of these animals anticipate a storm in clear or cloudy weather. What I

Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 4:26 AM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.comwrote: the fossil fuel industry doesn't have to convince anyone that global warming isn't happening, There is no doubt that the climate is changing but that is nothing new, the climate has ALWAYS been changing. Other than a

Max Planck on (internet) scientists as atheists

2013-11-13 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Allen Francom Good for you. Similarly I have been involved in the consciousness market with Leibniz's platonism. But same as you, no reponses, silence. Max Planck had the same problem: Die Wahrheit triumphiert nie, ihre Gegner sterben nur aus. Truth never triumphs ,

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread Telmo Menezes
Hi John, I would like to point out that I did not write the first two sentences you cite and I was being sarcastic when I wrote the third one. As I said, I'm agnostic on human caused global warming. Unusually, I mostly agree with everything you say here. A few comments below... the fossil fuel

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread meekerdb
On 11/13/2013 12:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Nov 2013, at 22:10, Alberto G. Corona wrote: As human beings they were reluctant to provide hard earned data to those who had proved to mere critics - like you - with no interest but to spread doubt. Can ever have been a more

RE: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Chris de Morsella
Such nastiness – it only makes you come across as highly unpleasant, which perhaps you, in fact are. From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto G. Corona Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:17 AM To: everything-list Subject: Re: Our

RE: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Chris de Morsella
-Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Telmo Menezes Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:07 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 12:49 AM, LizR

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.comwrote: I would like to point out that I did not write the first two sentences you cite and I was being sarcastic when I wrote the third one. Sorry. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 5:54 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: I would like to point out that I did not write the first two sentences you cite and I was being sarcastic when I wrote the third one.

Why materialistic theories of consciousness are quackery

2013-11-13 Thread Roger Clough
Why materialistic theories of consciousness (the science of consciousness) are quackery Bertrand Russell said that there are two forms of knowledge example: you know who Obamn is, he is the US president. a) Knowledge by descriptions (objective knowledge) example: you know who Obamn is,

Re: Spacetime is (nonphysical, platonic) mind

2013-11-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Nov 2013, at 18:45, meekerdb wrote: On 11/12/2013 2:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Nov 2013, at 04:44, meekerdb wrote: Experience may be like that; everything has 'experience', it's just not human experience and when you stop having human experience you're dead. Why? If by

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread LizR
Obviously there is more CO2 in the air than there has been for a very long time, and obviously the climate has changed somewhat in the last couple of decades (warmest on record, again and again). It's hard to prove the connection, of course, but the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. Of

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Alberto G. Corona
2013/11/13 Chris de Morsella cdemorse...@yahoo.com Such nastiness – it only makes you come across as highly unpleasant, which perhaps you, in fact are. Come on... You jumped of from your black helicopter and other than that you have nothing smart to say. *From:*

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread meekerdb
On 11/13/2013 1:06 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Regarding solar power -- this could be the solution but it's sci-fi at the moment. I don't know what you mean by this? Are you implying that it is like teleportation or interstellar space flight? Those are things that we don't know how to do. But

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread meekerdb
On 11/13/2013 2:13 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: That is not bad in principle, is what is it and is human nature. But in anomial societies like the modern West, where the small comunities were lost time ago, and the christian faith that created a big sense of comunity for all the West also has

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread meekerdb
On 11/13/2013 2:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Also, I am against prohibition of any products, including oil, but prohibition of hemp has lead to making oil quasi obligatory. So the problem is not oil (and fossil fuel), the problem is the unfair competition brought by people having private

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread spudboy100
Interesting paper, except the Limits to Growth hypothesis is likely remediated by changing economics and changing tech. There was a bet 30 years ago by Paul Erhlich of The Population Bomb fame, and the guy who wrote Infinite Resources. The later one, based on the coast of raw materials in 20

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 13 Nov 2013, at 12:54, Alberto G. Corona wrote: I would be easy to make a joke of your comments about cannabis, but it would not have been fair. No problem. But If I take it seriously, I can not figh both conspiranoic theories in the same thread. Thanks for not using the

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Alberto G. Corona
A few moments ago I though: For sure meekerdeb will attack with one of their standard two-line mini-rant snippets that cut and paste everywhere And here it is. Chris at least spend a bit more effort before his final attack with his black helicopters 2013/11/13 meekerdb

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread meekerdb
On 11/13/2013 7:51 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 4:26 AM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com mailto:te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: the fossil fuel industry doesn't have to convince anyone that global warming isn't happening, There is no doubt that the climate is

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread John Mikes
Dear LIZ: More than ~2 million peer-reviewed articles approved the Bible stories beween 1599 and 2010. We call that 'religon'. (Numbers!!!) Does that make them true? Fossil fuel will not neccesarily run out: nobody will use them after our demise. And for nukes? I would say: O N L Y fusion! The

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 7:49 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Obviously there is more CO2 in the air than there has been for a very long time, and obviously the climate has changed somewhat in the last couple of decades (warmest on record, again and again). It's hard to prove the connection,

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Chris de Morsella cdemorse...@yahoo.com wrote: -Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Telmo Menezes Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:07 AM To:

Re: Spacetime is (nonphysical, platonic) mind

2013-11-13 Thread meekerdb
On 11/13/2013 10:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Nov 2013, at 18:45, meekerdb wrote: On 11/12/2013 2:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Nov 2013, at 04:44, meekerdb wrote: Experience may be like that; everything has 'experience', it's just not human experience and when you stop having

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread meekerdb
On 11/13/2013 10:49 AM, LizR wrote: Obviously there is more CO2 in the air than there has been for a very long time, and obviously the climate has changed somewhat in the last couple of decades (warmest on record, again and again). It's hard to prove the connection, of course, but the

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread Russell Standish
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 10:35:48PM +0100, Telmo Menezes wrote: There is overwhelming evidence in favour of the theory of evolution because of the number of predictions it got right, not because of the amount of papers that say that it is a spiffy theory. The theory of anthropogenic global

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread meekerdb
On 11/13/2013 11:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The catholic and the chihite, This one: http://lordblumiere.deviantart.com/art/Chihite-Angelorum-61177983 Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread LizR
On 14 November 2013 10:19, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: Dear LIZ: More than ~2 million peer-reviewed articles approved the Bible stories beween 1599 and 2010. We call that 'religon'. (Numbers!!!) Does that make them true? They weren't using the scientific method. Do you think

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread LizR
On 14 November 2013 10:35, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: There is overwhelming evidence in favour of the theory of evolution because of the number of predictions it got right, not because of the amount of papers that say that it is a spiffy theory. The theory of anthropogenic

Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

2013-11-13 Thread meekerdb
On 11/13/2013 12:38 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: What is legal? Guns, oil, car, tobacco, alcohol, those things kill a lot, and none are/were really necessary. Killing people with guns (or otherwise) is generally illegal. Very few things are necessary to live - but many things are desirable.

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread meekerdb
On 11/13/2013 1:19 PM, John Mikes wrote: More than ~2 million peer-reviewed articles approved the Bible stories beween 1599 and 2010. But did they provide any data? Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from

RE: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread chris peck
http://adaptationresourcekit.squarespace.com/storage/climate%20change%20cartoons_better%20world.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1302730968594 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 14:48:50 -0800 From: meeke...@verizon.net To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Global warming silliness

RE: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread Chris de Morsella
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:18 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Global warming silliness On 11/13/2013 10:49 AM, LizR wrote: Obviously there is more CO2 in

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread meekerdb
Good one, Chris. But you can tell from the posts here that what drives the Deniers is fear of government. In the U.S. since the Viet Nam war there has developed a widespread distrust of government as incompetent, corrupt, and oppressive. And global warming, once it is accepted as a problem

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread LizR
On 14 November 2013 16:18, Chris de Morsella cdemorse...@yahoo.com wrote: But as Telmo points out we can't just wait till fossil fuel runs out and then switch. It takes energy to build nuclear power plants and solar panels and wind tubines. In principle they could bootstrap themselves, but

RE: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread Chris de Morsella
-Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Russell Standish Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:33 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Global warming silliness On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 10:35:48PM

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread LizR
On 14 November 2013 16:25, Chris de Morsella cdemorse...@yahoo.com wrote: And to have the depth and breadth of understanding of the climatic systems both atmospheric and oceanic to be able to say with a high degree of certainty that there won't be unintended consequences that emerge out of

Re: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread meekerdb
On 11/13/2013 7:26 PM, LizR wrote: On 14 November 2013 16:18, Chris de Morsella cdemorse...@yahoo.com mailto:cdemorse...@yahoo.com wrote: But as Telmo points out we can't just wait till fossil fuel runs out and then switch. It takes energy to build nuclear power plants and solar

RE: Global warming silliness

2013-11-13 Thread Chris de Morsella
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of LizR Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 7:29 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Global warming silliness On 14 November 2013 16:25, Chris de Morsella cdemorse...@yahoo.com