Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread meekerdb
No, as Steven Weinberg pointed out there will be many more universes which marginally support intelligent life as compared to those which are highly adapted to it. Brent On 11/25/2013 11:19 PM, Samiya Illias wrote: So the physics of our Universe is fine-tuned to our evolution ? Sent from my

Re: Nuclear power

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
On 26 November 2013 17:47, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Where is the glamorization of genocide?? The U.S. fought WW2 to defeat practitioners of genocide, when it could have just defended its borders and let the Nazis have Europe and Japan take China. And now you accuse us of

Re: Nuclear power

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
On 26 November 2013 19:41, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 10:29 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 November 2013 15:17, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: Most people wouldn't feel deprived if they weren't allowed to play hockey, or go scuba

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
On 26 November 2013 17:51, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 11/25/2013 7:35 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 November 2013 15:31, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: All things I do. So why does purpose presuppose something like God? In fact I don't see that something like God could add

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
On 26 November 2013 20:19, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: So the physics of our Universe is fine-tuned to our evolution ? No, according to the Weak Anthropic Principle, the physics of our universe should only be *adequate* - that is, it should allow us to evolve but not in any way

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread Alberto G. Corona
I would say that there are only two kinds of explanations: 1 - What we see is so improbable, so everything must exist. only we live in one exceptional corner. UDA, Multiverses etc. That include botlzman whales 2- What we see is so improbable 2013/11/26 Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread Alberto G. Corona
2013/11/26 Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com I would say that there are only two kinds of explanations: 1 - What we see is so improbable, so everything must exist. only we live in one exceptional corner. UDA, Multiverses etc. That include Boltzmann whales

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
Yes, and with comp #2 becomes a serious possibility since minds automatically exist due to arithmetical realism. On 26 November 2013 22:04, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/11/26 Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com I would say that there are only two kinds of

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread Alberto G. Corona
All of this demonstrate how little we know about what we are. I have some interesting hints about all of this I think. And I have to formally demonstrate that, and sorry for the pedantry but, as I said frequently, according with evolutionary game theory, the collective sacrifices are needed for

The passing on of a paradigm--analytic philosophy

2013-11-26 Thread Roger Clough
The passing on of a paradigm--analytic philosophy Max Planck once said that Science advances one funeral at a time. Thomas Kuhn made a similar conclusion in his magnum opus. The Structure of Scientific Revolutions. Not to speak ill of the dead, but the champions of analytic philosophy-- the

RE: Arctic Seafloor Methane Releases Double Previous Estimates

2013-11-26 Thread Chris de Morsella
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/11/131125172113.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/11/131125172113.htm Arctic Seafloor Methane Releases Double Previous Estimates -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To

Re: Nuclear power

2013-11-26 Thread meekerdb
On 11/26/2013 12:24 AM, LizR wrote: On 26 November 2013 17:47, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Where is the glamorization of genocide?? The U.S. fought WW2 to defeat practitioners of genocide, when it could have just defended its borders and let

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread meekerdb
On 11/26/2013 1:04 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2013/11/26 Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com mailto:agocor...@gmail.com I would say that there are only two kinds of explanations: 1 - What we see is so improbable, so everything must exist. only we live in one exceptional

Re: Nuclear power

2013-11-26 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:36 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 November 2013 19:41, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 10:29 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 November 2013 15:17, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: Most people wouldn't feel

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Yes , but in a certain way, it is to reduce two mysteries to one by saying that there is a relation between both. That does makes sense, since an essential part of the mind work is to create improbable things. 2013/11/26 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 11/26/2013 1:04 AM, Alberto G. Corona

Re: Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible.

2013-11-26 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 7:17 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible. I believe that maintaining that computers can't be conscious is wrong but I can't prove it. But maintaining that a computer can't be intelligent is

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Nov 2013, at 00:32, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 25 November 2013 23:17, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/11/25 Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com On 25 November 2013 12:35:50 am AEDT, Samiya Illias wrote: Bruno asks: Should we search, or not, for a

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Concerning the pre nausea and post nausea, I think that a post nauseam society is burning their last fuel, like a star burn heavier and heavier elements until it implodes. In this case, following the game-theoretical logic that I mentioned, the naked reality comes from the disbelief in their

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Atheism is wish fulfillment. To some extent that is true. Imagine for a moment what it would be like if a Christian God did exist, it would be far worse than living in North Korea! Here we have an all powerful demon

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread meekerdb
On 11/26/2013 9:28 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: Yes , but in a certain way, it is to reduce two mysteries to one by saying that there is a relation between both. It's a common move in philosophy and even in speculative science. Penrose saw that consciousness and quantum gravity are both

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Atheism is also the belief in NO afterlife, Those are 2 separate ideas and there is no reason they must be linked. There could be a God and no afterlife or a afterlife and no God; or neither could exist or both could.

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread meekerdb
On 11/26/2013 9:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Nov 2013, at 00:32, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 25 November 2013 23:17, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/11/25 Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com On 25 November 2013 12:35:50 am AEDT, Samiya Illias wrote: Bruno

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread Alberto G. Corona
but personal purpose must be metaphisical. I mean transcendental, beyond our own. Except in the case of people in the edge, that are concerned with its own survival. you can not find meaning working every morning for a society if your society has not a purpose,a plan itself for going along. The

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Nov 2013, at 20:08, meekerdb wrote: On 11/24/2013 2:43 PM, LizR wrote: On 25 November 2013 10:53, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: That isn't a problem at all. It's just like the arguments about the existence of god; first you have to define what you mean by god before you

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread meekerdb
On 11/26/2013 10:03 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: but personal purpose must be metaphisical. I mean transcendental, beyond our own. Beyond my what?...beyond my purpose. That would be incoherent. Except in the case of people in the edge, that are concerned with its own survival. Why is

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread Alberto G. Corona
2013/11/26 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 11/26/2013 10:03 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: but personal purpose must be metaphisical. I mean transcendental, beyond our own. Beyond my what?...beyond my purpose. That would be incoherent. Yes. beyond your purpose. Except in the case of

The whole enchilada: Leibniz, the first person, third person, and the brain

2013-11-26 Thread Roger Clough
The whole enchilada: Leibniz, the first person, third person, and the brain. A new mind-brain model for the post-analytic post-materialist world. [Please feel free to use whatever I have written on the topic of Leibniz to advance your own theory of the mind and brain. All copyrights are released

Re: Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible.

2013-11-26 Thread Gabriel Bodeen
So in the event that somebody actually does make AI, please recall this and consider your philosophical system to have been falsified. -Gabe On Monday, November 25, 2013 6:17:15 AM UTC-6, Roger Clough wrote: Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible. Dr. Roger B

Re: Is Roger Clough an effect of global warming?

2013-11-26 Thread Gabriel Bodeen
Is there another version of this list anywhere with a lower density of Cloughisms? On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:48:55 PM UTC-5, Pierz wrote: See here: http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/the-rise-of-slime3a-jellyfish-and-algae-thrive-in-new-oceanic-/4838478 It seems

Re: Is Roger Clough an effect of global warming?

2013-11-26 Thread Quentin Anciaux
No, you just have to filter him. If you use gmail, just add a filter to send that to the trash or tag it. You can add filter with almost all email reader programs. Quentin 2013/11/26 Gabriel Bodeen gabebod...@gmail.com Is there another version of this list anywhere with a lower density of

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread meekerdb
On 11/26/2013 11:13 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2013/11/26 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On 11/26/2013 10:03 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: but personal purpose must be metaphisical. I mean transcendental, beyond our own. Beyond my

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
On 27 November 2013 06:39, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: But we don't know that. There is no logical reason there shouldn't be a purpose to life, universes and consciousness. No logical reason, but there's no obvious sign that there is one. And there might be deep reason, yet

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
On 27 November 2013 07:22, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Suppose you work for yourself instead of society. Or as George Carlin put it, If I'm here for other people, what are those other people here for? What has posterity ever done for me? This is an evolutionary choice between

Re: The passing on of a paradigm--analytic philosophy

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
It isn't necessarily true that ideas are replaced when their originator dies, as Isaac Newton or Aristotle or Descartes (or Leibniz?) demonstrated. Also, I think Kuhn's idea about paradigms is largely bollocks. (Even he thought it was, when he got older and had a chance to think about it some

Re: Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible.

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
On 27 November 2013 06:38, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 7:17 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Computers cannot simulate human activities or experiences or consciousness because they have to deal in code, which consists of instructions or

A slight revision- The whole enchilada: Leibniz, the first person, third person, and the brain.

2013-11-26 Thread Roger Clough
The whole enchilada: Leibniz, the first person, third person, and the brain. A new mind-brain model for the post-analytic post-materialist world. [Please feel free to use whatever I have written on the topic of Leibniz to advance your own theory of the mind and brain. All copyrights are

Re: Re: Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence areimpossible.

2013-11-26 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Gabriel Bodeen Absolutely. Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] See my Leibniz site at http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough - Receiving the following content - From: Gabriel Bodeen Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-11-26, 15:17:20 Subject: Re: Why

Re: Is Roger Clough an effect of global warming?

2013-11-26 Thread meekerdb
Doesn't your email program have a filter? Brent On 11/26/2013 12:29 PM, Gabriel Bodeen wrote: Is there another version of this list anywhere with a lower density of Cloughisms? On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:48:55 PM UTC-5, Pierz wrote: See here:

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread meekerdb
On 11/26/2013 1:20 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 November 2013 07:22, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Suppose you work for yourself instead of society. Or as George Carlin put it, If I'm here for other people, what are those other people here for? What has

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
On 27 November 2013 11:34, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 11/26/2013 1:20 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 November 2013 07:22, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Suppose you work for yourself instead of society. Or as George Carlin put it, If I'm here for other people, what are those

Re: A slight revision- The whole enchilada: Leibniz, the first person, third person, and the brain.

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
editor hat on... holistic doesn't have a 'w' -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this

Re: Is Roger Clough an effect of global warming?

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
The Fabric of Alternate Reality list would fit your description, by the way. if you're really keen to avoid RC. Also by the way, the answer to your original question (in the title) is of course no, it's more likely that (a tiny amount of) global warming is an effect of Mr Clough :) On 27

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread meekerdb
On 11/26/2013 2:49 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 November 2013 11:34, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 11/26/2013 1:20 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 November 2013 07:22, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Suppose you work

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
On 27 November 2013 13:00, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 11/26/2013 2:49 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 November 2013 11:34, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 11/26/2013 1:20 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 November 2013 07:22, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Suppose you work for

Re: Nuclear power

2013-11-26 Thread LizR
On 26 November 2013 21:24, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 November 2013 17:47, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Where is the glamorization of genocide?? The U.S. fought WW2 to defeat practitioners of genocide, when it could have just defended its borders and let the Nazis have

Re: Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible.

2013-11-26 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Gabriel Bodeen gabebod...@gmail.com wrote: So in the event that somebody actually does make AI, please recall this and consider your [ Roger B Clough's] philosophical system to have been falsified. It's already been falsified. At one time everybody on the