Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-30 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear Bruno, Why do you not consider an isomorphism between the Category of computer/universal-numbers and physical realities? That way we can avoid a lot of problems! I think that it is because of your insistence of the Platonic view that the material/physical realm is somehow lesser in

Re: Bruno's mathematical reality

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/29/2013 11:42 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Dec 2013, at 20:25, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 5:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Dec 2013, at 22:23, meekerdb wrote: On 12/28/2013 4:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: For a long time I got opponent saying that we cannot generate

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/29/2013 11:58 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Dec 2013, at 20:35, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 6:10 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Liz, No, it is clear that your here is not the same as mine because you are not here. However it is quite clear that you absolutely must be doing something in

Re: God or not?

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Dec 2013, at 20:51, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 8:14 AM, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I use Platonism, where God == Truth. I know what truth means as an attribute of a sentence. But I don't know what Truth means?

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Dec 2013, at 21:05, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote Are faster-than-light influences involved? No. That means you think things are local. 2. When it is determined whether or not Schrodinger's cat is alive or dead?

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Dec 2013, at 21:29, LizR wrote: Not quite, violations of Bell's inequality can also be explained by time symmetry (Huw Price and John Bell, private communications). + very special initial boundary conditions, which leads to a selection principle in the MW. It is a bit like in Bohm,

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Dec 2013, at 21:42, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 3:29 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: violations of Bell's inequality can also be explained by time symmetry (Huw Price and John Bell, private communications). I have no idea what that private communication is, but I do

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Dec 2013, at 21:47, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 9:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Dec 2013, at 14:52, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Bruno, Glad we agree that decoherence falsifies collapse. That's a good start! But decoherence also falsifies MW. Non collapse = many-worlds, to me.

Re: Bruno's mathematical reality

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Dec 2013, at 22:51, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 1:28 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 2:25 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/29/2013 5:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Dec 2013, at 22:23, meekerdb wrote: On 12/28/2013 4:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Dec 2013, at 23:29, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 2:01 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 1:47 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/28/2013 6:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 8:32 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/28/2013

Re: Bruno's mathematical reality

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 Dec 2013, at 23:42, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 2:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 4:51 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/29/2013 1:28 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 2:25 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/29/2013

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 00:11, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Richard, It is true I entered university aged 15 and earned my BS in math and physics with honors and a minor in philosophy aged 18. I never claimed to be a genius though. :-) Good for you. But you have often the tone of a truth knower,

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 00:52, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 3:31 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 5:29 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/29/2013 2:01 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 1:47 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/28/2013

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 01:02, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Pierz, Liz and Frequent Flyer, Jeez, you guys, this seems to be becoming a matter of sacred religious dogma to you and someone who doesn't agree deserves to burned at the stake! Lighten up guys and take a deep breath, they're just theories!

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Jason, That's a totally off the wall answer. When the two shake hands it's not just photons that are interacting, it's the electrons, protons and neutrons of the matter of their hands which don't travel at the speed of light. Goodness gracious! Edgar On Sunday, December 29, 2013 10:24:34

Re: humans are machines unable to recognize the fact that they are machines,

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 02:04, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, December 29, 2013 6:42:20 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Dec 2013, at 15:40, Craig Weinberg wrote: humans are machines unable to recognize the fact that they are machines, Who wrote this? *any* ideally correct machines

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 02:33, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Far from it, really;-) I assure you, I wish you no burning at any stakes, whether literal or figurative. You are perfectly entitled to be as incorrect as you wish, especially in an area as solidly established as relativistic physics.

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Stephen, Jason, Liz, The answer is very simple when one understands there are two kinds of time. Present moment P-time is the processor cycle of the computations, and the computations compute clock time. The computations MUST take place in time of some sort to compute anything. The fact that

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 02:36, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 4:37 PM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 13:02, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: Pierz, Liz and Frequent Flyer, Jeez, you guys, this seems to be becoming a matter of sacred religious dogma to you and someone who doesn't agree

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Bruno, Give me a link to the FOAR list and I'll check it out... I can't find it on Google groups Thanks, Edgar On Monday, December 30, 2013 4:30:23 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 02:36, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 4:37 PM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 02:59, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 4:41 PM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 09:35, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: Liz, Good questions. The computations take place in P-time which is the universal processor cycle in which they execute. The results of the

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 30 December 2013 22:40, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: Bruno, Give me a link to the FOAR list and I'll check it out... I can't find it on Google groups http://groups.google.com/group/foar. it stands for Fabric of Alternative Reality - (the title comes from the book by David

Re: Dear Edgar Owen

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
Dear John, On 30 Dec 2013, at 03:11, John Mikes wrote: We 'use' practical conclusions - yet should not draw final and universal ones on a totality we don't know. Call it Scientific humility. I partially agree/disagree here. We cannot draw final conclusion. I do agree with this, as we

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 30 December 2013 20:53, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Hi LizR, Round and round we go... This sentence It emerges because instants are connected to each other in a way that makes there appear to be smooth change between them. does not explain anything. I have read

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 30 December 2013 22:30, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: Stephen, Jason, Liz, The answer is very simple when one understands there are two kinds of time. Present moment P-time is the processor cycle of the computations, and the computations compute clock time. The computations

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 03:59, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 6:52 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/29/2013 3:31 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Everett's idea is more properly a theory. It explains the phenomenon of collapse without supposing it is the other ideas of

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 30 December 2013 21:02, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Dear Bruno, Why do you not consider an isomorphism between the Category of computer/universal-numbers and physical realities? That way we can avoid a lot of problems! I think that it is because of your

Re: Bruno's mathematical reality

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 05:54, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 7:45 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 6:58 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/29/2013 3:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 5:42 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/29/2013

Re: Bruno's mathematical reality

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 06:28, Jason Resch wrote: In the space of all possible movies, the ones that are watchable or meaningful to human viewers would all be highly compressible. The ones that are random snow, despite containing more information, would not make interesting movies. So maybe

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 08:25, LizR wrote: I admit I have difficulty understanding how Bruno's UD runs inside arithmetic Don't push me too much as I really want to explain this to you :) It is not completely obvious, especially if we want be 100% rigorous. There are not so much textbook

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread Pierz
I have to admit I'm starting to derive a weird kind of enjoyment from this debate. Liz and frequentflyer: you guys are my heroes. Though anodyne means pain-relieving, which is not how I would describe Roger's theories. I would choose the word jejune instead. Edgar, ole buddy ole pal. You're

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 08:49, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 9:05 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 11:43 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/29/2013 6:59 PM, Jason Resch wrote: That is the only way to make progress. Propose theories, and falsify them. Ockham says

Re: Bruno's mathematical reality

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 09:01, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 11:42 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Dec 2013, at 20:25, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 5:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Dec 2013, at 22:23, meekerdb wrote: On 12/28/2013 4:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: For a long time I got

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 09:02, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear Bruno, Why do you not consider an isomorphism between the Category of computer/universal-numbers and physical realities? Gibve me the axioms. I know the dominical categories (of Turing morphism), but just to get the definition

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 09:04, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 11:58 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Dec 2013, at 20:35, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 6:10 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Liz, No, it is clear that your here is not the same as mine because you are not here. However it is quite clear

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread Pierz
On Monday, December 30, 2013 10:18:59 AM UTC+11, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Pierz, If block time is actual and something actually exists in past times then the energy must actually exist there and be real also. Thus a new universe of energy is being created at every new moment of time. Energy

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
Edgar, On 30 Dec 2013, at 10:45, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 22:40, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: Bruno, Give me a link to the FOAR list and I'll check it out... I can't find it on Google groups http://groups.google.com/group/foar. it stands for Fabric of Alternative

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 10:30, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Stephen, Jason, Liz, The answer is very simple when one understands there are two kinds of time. Present moment P-time is the processor cycle of the computations, and the computations compute clock time. The computations MUST take place in

The Nature of Truth

2013-12-30 Thread Edgar L. Owen
All, In response to the discussion of the possibility of a Final Theory I'm starting a new topic on the Nature of Truth since this is an important and separate issue from previous discussions. 1, it is impossible to directly know the external fundamental reality, we know external reality

Re: The Nature of Truth

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 12:39, Edgar L. Owen wrote: All, In response to the discussion of the possibility of a Final Theory I'm starting a new topic on the Nature of Truth since this is an important and separate issue from previous discussions. 1, it is impossible to directly know the

Re: The Nature of Truth

2013-12-30 Thread Alberto G. Corona
2013/12/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 30 Dec 2013, at 12:39, Edgar L. Owen wrote: All, In response to the discussion of the possibility of a Final Theory I'm starting a new topic on the Nature of Truth since this is an important and separate issue from previous discussions. 1,

Re: The Nature of Truth

2013-12-30 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Dec 2013, at 15:25, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2013/12/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 30 Dec 2013, at 12:39, Edgar L. Owen wrote: All, In response to the discussion of the possibility of a Final Theory I'm starting a new topic on the Nature of Truth since this is an

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/30/2013 1:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 02:59, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 4:41 PM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 09:35, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net mailto:edgaro...@att.net wrote: Liz, Good questions. The computations take place in P-time which is

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/30/2013 1:56 AM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 20:53, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.com mailto:stephe...@provensecure.com wrote: Hi LizR, Round and round we go... This sentence It emerges because instants are connected to each other in a way that makes there

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/30/2013 2:07 AM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 21:02, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.com mailto:stephe...@provensecure.com wrote: Dear Bruno, Why do you not consider an isomorphism between the Category ofcomputer/universal-numbers and physical realities? That

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/30/2013 3:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But that's essentially everything, since everything is (presumably) quantum. But notice the limitation of quantum computers, if it has N qubits it takes 2^N complex numbers to specify its state, BUT you can only retrieve N bits of information from it

Re: The Nature of Truth

2013-12-30 Thread Alberto G. Corona
To summarize, there is no possible pure knowledge, only rules to extract knowledge from assumed beliefs. Thanks. But I already knew so. But i the realm of reality, i.e. sensible experience, Edgar is right here. 2013/12/30 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 30 Dec 2013, at 15:25, Alberto

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/30/2013 3:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 09:04, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 11:58 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Dec 2013, at 20:35, meekerdb wrote: On 12/29/2013 6:10 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Liz, No, it is clear that your here is not the same as mine because

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:00 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 3:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But that's essentially everything, since everything is (presumably) quantum. But notice the limitation of quantum computers, if it has N qubits it takes 2^N complex numbers to

Re: The Nature of Truth

2013-12-30 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.comwrote: To summarize, there is no possible pure knowledge, only rules to extract knowledge from assumed beliefs. Thanks. But I already knew so. But i the realm of reality, And where may one find this realm of realms?

Re: The Nature of Truth

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/30/2013 3:39 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote: All, In response to the discussion of the possibility of a Final Theory I'm starting a new topic on the Nature of Truth since this is an important and separate issue from previous discussions. 1, it is impossible to directly know the external

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/30/2013 11:17 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:00 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 3:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But that's essentially everything, since everything is (presumably) quantum. But notice

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:41 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 11:17 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:00 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 3:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But that's essentially everything, since everything is

Re: The Nature of Truth

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 31 December 2013 08:20, Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.comwrote: To summarize, there is no possible pure knowledge, only rules to extract knowledge from assumed beliefs. Thanks. But I already knew

The background to Edgar's book

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
Edgar, Have you written any peer-reviewed papers on your ideas? Most scientific popularisations are written to explain a theory that has been worked out mathematically (like David Deutsch's Fabric Of Reality) or which are the product of long (and intense) discussions amongst scientists and

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 31 December 2013 00:00, Pierz pier...@gmail.com wrote: I have to admit I'm starting to derive a weird kind of enjoyment from this debate. Liz and frequentflyer: you guys are my heroes. Though anodyne means pain-relieving, which is not how I would describe Roger's theories. I would choose

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-30 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear LizR and Brent, I will try to go at this from a different direction. What exactly does fundamental level mean? Does there have to be something fundamental? Consider Leibniz' monadology: strip it of the anthropocentrism and religiosity and one obtains a nice any one thing is made from

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 4:09 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: If an influence can go backward in time as well as forward then it can effectively have FTL influence, We already know for a fact that faster than light influences exist, and this has nothing to do with any theory, it was

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/30/2013 12:04 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:41 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 11:17 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:00 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: That means you think things are realistic, and that means I know for a fact your thinking is wrong, not crazy but wrong. We know from experiment that Bell's inequality is violated, and that means that locality or realism

Re: The Nature of Truth

2013-12-30 Thread Alberto G. Corona
2013/12/30 Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.comwrote: To summarize, there is no possible pure knowledge, only rules to extract knowledge from assumed beliefs. Thanks. But I already knew so. But i the realm

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 31 December 2013 07:40, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 1:56 AM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 20:53, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Hi LizR, Round and round we go... This sentence It emerges because instants are connected to each other

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear Brent, On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 1:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 1:56 AM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 20:53, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Hi LizR, Round and round we go... This sentence It emerges because instants are

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear LizR, On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:23 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 December 2013 07:40, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 1:56 AM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 20:53, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.com wrote: Hi LizR, Round and round we

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 3:57 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 12:04 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:41 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 11:17 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:00 PM, meekerdb

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/30/2013 1:23 PM, LizR wrote: On 31 December 2013 07:40, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 1:56 AM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 20:53, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.com mailto:stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:00 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: That means you think things are realistic, and that means I know for a fact your thinking is wrong, not crazy but wrong. We know from experiment

Re: The background to Edgar's book

2013-12-30 Thread John Mikes
Dear Liz, as a former ed-in-chief of a science magazine (Ion Exchange and Membranes) I know the difficulties one can run into if trying to get peer-review approval on NEW ideas that do not fit into the conventional scientific fabric of college courses. I was a risk-taker and provided space for

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread Stephen Paul King
Hi Brent, But then the explanation for *this* is that it's just a random one we happen to exist in. I don't see that as any better than saying that somethings happen at random and they led to here. No, the one we happen to find ourselves in may be arbitrary, but not random per se. The universe

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/30/2013 1:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 3:57 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 12:04 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:41 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/30/2013 1:44 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: Hi Brent, But then the explanation for *this* is that it's just a random one we happen to exist in. I don't see that as any better than saying that somethings happen at random and they led to here. No, the one we happen to find ourselves in

Re: The Nature of Truth

2013-12-30 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
:-) Those realms can be avoided, especially if one is flexible with where one... but off-topic. PGC On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.comwrote: 2013/12/30 Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Alberto G.

Re: The Nature of Truth

2013-12-30 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 9:21 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 December 2013 08:20, Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.comwrote: To summarize, there is no possible pure knowledge, only rules to

Re: The background to Edgar's book

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 31 December 2013 10:38, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Liz, as a former ed-in-chief of a science magazine (Ion Exchange and Membranes) I know the difficulties one can run into if trying to get peer-review approval on NEW ideas that do not fit into the conventional scientific

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 31 December 2013 10:30, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Dear LizR, On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:23 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 December 2013 07:40, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 1:56 AM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 20:53, Stephen

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 31 December 2013 10:33, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: But then the explanation for *this* is that it's just a random one we happen to exist in. I don't see that as any better than saying that somethings happen at random and they led to here. Yeah, it's the WAP. Seems quite

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread Stephen Paul King
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:49 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 1:44 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: Hi Brent, But then the explanation for *this* is that it's just a random one we happen to exist in. I don't see that as any better than saying that somethings happen at

Re: The background to Edgar's book

2013-12-30 Thread Edgar L. Owen
John, and Liz, Yes John is correct here. Without a current academic affiliation it's well nigh impossible to be accepted for publication in a peer reviewed journal... Sad but true... Edgar On Monday, December 30, 2013 4:38:40 PM UTC-5, JohnM wrote: Dear Liz, as a former ed-in-chief of a

Re: The background to Edgar's book

2013-12-30 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Liz, You claim my theory of time is Newtonian but that just demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of the theory... Edgar On Monday, December 30, 2013 5:02:06 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 31 December 2013 10:38, John Mikes jam...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: Dear Liz, as a former

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/30/2013 2:08 PM, LizR wrote: On 31 December 2013 10:33, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: But then the explanation for *this* is that it's just a random one we happen to exist in. I don't see that as any better than saying that somethings happen

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:45 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 1:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 3:57 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 12:04 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:41 PM, meekerdb

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread Stephen Paul King
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 5:07 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 December 2013 10:30, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Dear LizR, On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:23 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 December 2013 07:40, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread Stephen Paul King
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 5:08 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 December 2013 10:33, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: But then the explanation for *this* is that it's just a random one we happen to exist in. I don't see that as any better than saying that somethings happen at

Re: The Nature of Truth

2013-12-30 Thread John Mikes
Dear Edgar: allow me not to copy your post the 8th time, just marking the #s of your par-s into my short remarks. #1 As long as we don't know ALL of the (external?) complexity-stuff we cannot claim 'knowledge' of any 'reality', only quote the so far received part and that, too, as adjusted into

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2013-12-30 Thread Stephen Paul King
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 5:19 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 2:08 PM, LizR wrote: On 31 December 2013 10:33, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: But then the explanation for *this* is that it's just a random one we happen to exist in. I don't see that as any

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread meekerdb
On 12/30/2013 2:20 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:45 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 1:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 3:57 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 5:32 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 2:20 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:45 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 1:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 3:57 PM, meekerdb

The Simplest Complete Model of Everything

2013-12-30 Thread Craig Weinberg
Law (-∞) :: Presence +∞ Logic (-3) :: Imagination +3 Matter (-2) :: Mind +2 Energy (-1) :: Impulse +1 Information (-0) :: Entropy +0 (More complicated version: http://multisenserealism.com/thesis/8-matter-energy/schemas-and-frames/colorball-diagram-explained/) -- You received this message

Re: The background to Edgar's book

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 31 December 2013 11:19, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: Liz, You claim my theory of time is Newtonian but that just demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of the theory... It's just the simplest way to describe it. A common present moment is exactly how Newton envsiaged

Re: The background to Edgar's book

2013-12-30 Thread Telmo Menezes
Hi John, as a former ed-in-chief of a science magazine (Ion Exchange and Membranes) I know the difficulties one can run into if trying to get peer-review approval on NEW ideas that do not fit into the conventional scientific fabric of college courses. I was a risk-taker and provided space for

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 31 December 2013 00:24, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: For immaterial Newtonian-like point. If not we can't hardly breath. Our bodies do have volume. OK? This reminds me of one of the stories in Italo Calvino's Cosmicomics - it starts in the Big Bang. There were 27 of us living

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Richard Ruquist
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:00 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.comwrote: That means you think things are realistic, and that means I know for

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
...yrtemmys emit rO -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2013-12-30 Thread Jesse Mazer
Even if this connection between entanglement and wormholes holds up, I don't think it automatically means quantum physics is nonlocal and we must discard the many-worlds claim to preserve locality. Keep in mind that in general relativity nothing can actually pass from one end of an Einstein-Rosen

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2013-12-30 Thread Pierz
On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 7:40:02 AM UTC+11, Liz R wrote: On 31 December 2013 00:00, Pierz pie...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: I have to admit I'm starting to derive a weird kind of enjoyment from this debate. Liz and frequentflyer: you guys are my heroes. Though anodyne means

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 31 December 2013 07:44, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 2:07 AM, LizR wrote: On 30 December 2013 21:02, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Dear Bruno, Why do you not consider an isomorphism between the Category of computer/universal-numbers

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 31 December 2013 09:43, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Dear LizR and Brent, I will try to go at this from a different direction. What exactly does fundamental level mean? Does there have to be something fundamental? Consider Leibniz' monadology: strip it of the

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-30 Thread Stephen Paul King
Hi LizR, On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 9:19 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 December 2013 09:43, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Dear LizR and Brent, I will try to go at this from a different direction. What exactly does fundamental level mean? Does there have to

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
On 31 December 2013 15:37, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Why is this necessary? Sure, physics has come a long way since Democritus and his Atoms in a void. But we have reached a point where that way of thinking fails. Look at Superstrings, no empirical evidence of

Something everyone should see :-)

2013-12-30 Thread LizR
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap131229.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group,

  1   2   >