Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-09-28 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, September 28, 2012 12:56:23 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: But you don't need a living cell to transmit a signal. Yes, so there is nothing unique about biology. That is my point. Why have a cell

Re: Forget Zombies, Let's Talk Torture

2012-09-28 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, September 28, 2012 2:44:32 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 9/27/2012 11:57 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Are you saying that you expect replacing someone's brain would be no more problematic than replacing any other body part? Craig Hi Craig, I kinda have

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-09-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, September 28, 2012 11:36:36 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:10:37 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Craig Weinberg whats

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-09-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, September 28, 2012 11:56:07 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: You are contradicting yourself. 1) Nothing special about biology 2) Evolution is utterly helpless to create 'complex things' until it stumbled on biology

Re: Epiphenomenalism (was: Re: Bruno's Restaurant)

2012-09-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, September 29, 2012 2:14:34 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: The spark plugs don't fire in response to the will of the driver, the brain does. This isn't magic, this is the ordinary process

Re: Forget Zombies, Let's Talk Torture

2012-09-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, September 29, 2012 2:42:56 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: The principle is not the same. You cannot get a head transplant and assume that the 'you'-ness is going to magically follow

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-09-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, September 29, 2012 1:41:25 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:49 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: But leaving that obvious fact aside, the other obvious fact is that evolution has used organic chemistry to make self-replicators

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-09-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, September 29, 2012 10:49:47 PM UTC-4, Jason wrote: On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Saturday, September 29, 2012 1:41:25 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:49 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com

Re: Forget Zombies, Let's Talk Torture

2012-09-29 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, September 29, 2012 9:42:52 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: What test do you use to determine if it is still you after a certain procedure? You do half of the procedure, then walk

Re: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-09-30 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:55:34 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Roger Clough rcl...@verizon.netjavascript: wrote: Only life evolves, and steel claws, being made of steel, are not alive, at least in the ordinary sense (Leibniz believed that

Re: Forget Zombies, Let's Talk Torture

2012-09-30 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, September 30, 2012 6:19:15 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 3:15 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: OK, so you put in the brain implant, switch it in and out of circuit without telling the subject which is which, and ask them how

Re: Forget Zombies, Let's Talk Torture

2012-09-30 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, September 30, 2012 3:45:56 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 9/30/2012 2:03 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 9/30/2012 3:18 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: I don't doubt that initial experiments would not yield ideal results. Neural prostheses would initially be used for people

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-09-30 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, September 30, 2012 1:43:16 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: It's not enough to assert that evolutionary designs (teleonomy) and rational designs (teleology) are different, I am asking you

Re: Forget Zombies, Let's Talk Torture

2012-10-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 1, 2012 1:36:24 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I don't doubt that initial experiments would not yield ideal results. Neural prostheses would initially be used for people

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, September 30, 2012 8:02:55 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 9/30/2012 4:28 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: You aren't seeing my point that if human designers are nothing but evolved systems, then they must have the same limitations as evolution itself, unless you can explain why

Re: Forget Zombies, Let's Talk Torture

2012-10-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 1, 2012 11:08:44 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 11:45 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: You're suggesting that even if one implant works as well as the original, multiple implants would not. Is there a critical replacement

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 1, 2012 1:52:29 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:28 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: The difference is Evolution doesn't understand the concept of one step backward 2 steps forward for one thing, I went into considerable

Re: Forget Zombies, Let's Talk Torture

2012-10-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 1, 2012 12:03:38 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:46 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: You're not really answering the question. The neural implants are refined to the point where thousands of people are walking around

Re: Forget Zombies, Let's Talk Torture

2012-10-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 1, 2012 8:09:53 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:21 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: But if the implants worked as implants without experiences the person would behave as if everything were fine while internally

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 1:48:39 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: I don't understand the question because I'm not clear on what these differences refers to. The differences between evolutionary nature (teleonomy

Re: The meaning of subjectivity and the importance of self (1p)

2012-10-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 5:28:47 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Bruno and all, I have not infrequently brought up the need for a self in your models. Why do you need to include a self or 1p in your models ? There are two ways of looking at something: a) the objective material, which is

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-03 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 12:35:11 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 3:39 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: how can reason be completely different from evolution if reason itself is a consequence of nothing but evolution. Random mutation can wire

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-04 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 11:56:59 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: 1) I understand and respect your argument here 100%. 2) I think that I have a better explanation The better explanation

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-04 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, October 4, 2012 3:18:51 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:54 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: When you say Random mutation can wire together a small number of cells such that if there is a sudden change in the light levels

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-04 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, October 4, 2012 6:55:47 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:37 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 11:56:59 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Craig Weinberg whats

Re: A grand hypothesis about order, life, and consciousness

2012-10-05 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, October 5, 2012 7:05:06 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: So it is reasonable to define life as that which can produce order out of chaos *. Since at least higher living beings also possess consciousness, my grand hypothesis is that life = consciousness = awareness = producing order

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-05 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, October 5, 2012 12:58:14 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: To paraphrase Carl, 'First, you have to invent the universe.' You want to know why there is something rather than nothing and Science can't provide

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-07 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 6, 2012 1:56:33 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I'm openly saying that a high school kid can make a robot that behaves sensibly with just a few transistors. Only because he

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 8, 2012 3:06:42 AM UTC-4, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/10/7 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript: On Saturday, October 6, 2012 1:56:33 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comwrote: I'm openly saying

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 8, 2012 3:14:36 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On 08/10/2012, at 3:07 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Absolutely not. We know no such thing. Quite the opposite, we know with relative certainty that what we understand of physics provides

Re: Re: Maxwell on Metaphysics and Theology

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, October 7, 2012 8:58:53 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Roger Clough rcl...@verizon.netjavascript: wrote: Hi Evgenii Rudnyi I know that, but his theory of electromagnetism is a physical theory, even if it's hard to pin down the extension

Conjoined Twins

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
Have a look at the first few minutes of this show with conjoined twins Abby and Brittany: http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/tv/abby-and-brittany/videos/big-moves.htm You can see that although they do not share the same brain they clearly share aspects of the same mind. They often speak in unison

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 8, 2012 11:42:02 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: We know with absolute certainty that the laws of physics in this universe allow for the creation of consciousness, we may not know how they do it but we know

Re: Conjoined Twins

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
, or in the stratosphere somewhere. Craig On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Have a look at the first few minutes of this show with conjoined twins Abby and Brittany: http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/tv/abby-and-brittany/videos/big-moves.htm

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 8, 2012 1:35:31 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2012 8:42 AM, John Clark wrote: 2) Intelligent behavior is NOT associated with subjective experience, in which case there is no reason for Evolution to produce consciousness and I have no explanation for why I am here,

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 8, 2012 2:19:56 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2012 10:24 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: So the more stimulation you get through your senses of the outside environment the less conscious you become. Huh? Stimulation that you get thorough your senses of the outside

Re: The real reasons we don’t have AGI yet

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
Deutsch is right. Searle is right. Genuine AGI can only come when thoughts are driven by feeling and will rather than programmatic logic. It's a fundamental misunderstanding to assume that feeling can be generated by equipment which is incapable of caring about itself. Without personal

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 8, 2012 3:38:42 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2012 11:25 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, October 8, 2012 2:19:56 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2012 10:24 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: So the more stimulation you get through your senses of the outside

Universe on a Chip

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
If the universe were a simulation, would the constant speed of light correspond to the clock speed driving the simulation? In other words, the “CPU speed?” As we are “inside” the simulation, all attempts to measure the speed of the simulation appear as a constant value. Light

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 8, 2012 4:57:08 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2012 1:25 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, October 8, 2012 3:38:42 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2012 11:25 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, October 8, 2012 2:19:56 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2012

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:19:03 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2012 2:10 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, October 8, 2012 4:57:08 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2012 1:25 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, October 8, 2012 3:38:42 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/8/2012

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-08 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:51:56 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 1:39 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Well, if it's not the laws of physics then it's something supernatural, isn't it? Not unless you assume that physics is complete

Mysterious Algorithm Was 4% of Trading Activity Last Week

2012-10-09 Thread Craig Weinberg
Shades of things to come. What happens when we plug the economy of the entire world into mindless machines programmed to go to war against numbers. *Mysterious Algorithm Was 4% of Trading Activity Last Week* http://www.cnbc.com/id/49333454 A single mysterious computer program that placed

Re: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-09 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 6:38:24 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg They can only disagree about experiences that are spoken. You mean they can only verbally disagree. It is pretty clear that they can disagree about their taste in things without having spoken about them

Re: Conjoined Twins

2012-10-09 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 6:32:19 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg The subjective aspect (Firstness), some of which apparently each twin has, is not shareable, only descriptions of it (Thirdness) are shareable. Maybe not in these twins, but in these other, brain

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-09 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 10:17:41 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: Consciousness is when you bet in your consistency, or in a reality, to help yourself. Consciousness precedes language, but follows perception and sensation. Nice. It can be tricky because perception and sensation can

Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment

2012-10-09 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 11:21:59 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, which computers do you think have conscious experiences? Windows laptops? Deep Blue? Cable TV boxes? How the hell should I know if computers have conscious

Re: Universe on a Chip

2012-10-09 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 11:04:51 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Oct 2012, at 22:38, Craig Weinberg wrote: If the universe were a simulation, would the constant speed of light correspond to the clock speed driving the simulation? In other words, the “CPU speed?” As we

Re: Conjoined Twins

2012-10-09 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 10:09:57 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: I think Brittany and Abby are two single individual persons. I do too, but we can see that there is much more behavioral synchronization that we would expect from two single individual persons. Then there are the

Survey of Consciousness Models

2012-10-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
http://s33light.org/post/33296583824 Have a look. Objections? Suggestions? http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mboeqxC0Vl1qe3q3v.jpg http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mboih6q3e11qe3q3v.jpg http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mboik9Wcp91qe3q3v.jpg http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mboihhg9Lp1qe3q3v.jpg

Re: Re: more firewalls

2012-10-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:51:50 AM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: Roger, To say that a connection is based on logic is a category error. More specifically, I conjecture that the connection in the brain between the physical brain and the (computational?) mind/monads is based on BEC

Re: Yes, Doctor!

2012-10-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
NDEs make sense to me in my model. With personal consciousness as a subset of super-personal consciousness, it stands to reason that the personal event of one's own death would or could be a super-signifiying presentation in the native language of one's person (or super-person). Craig -- You

Re: Re: more firewalls

2012-10-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:47:47 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: Craig, I claim that a connection is needed in substance dualism between the substance of the mind and the substance of the brain. That is, if consciousness resides in a BEC in the brain and also in the mind, then the two

Re: Conjoined Twins

2012-10-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:27:14 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Oct 2012, at 19:27, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 10:09:57 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: I think Brittany and Abby are two single individual persons. I do too

Re: Universe on a Chip

2012-10-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:14:44 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 09 Oct 2012, at 19:03, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 11:04:51 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Oct 2012, at 22:38, Craig Weinberg wrote: If the universe were a simulation, would

Re: Re: more firewalls

2012-10-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
the other? Craig On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:47:47 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: Craig, I claim that a connection is needed in substance dualism between the substance of the mind

Re: Survey of Consciousness Models

2012-10-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:27:52 PM UTC-4, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.10.2012 17:16 Craig Weinberg said the following: http://s33light.org/post/33296583824 Have a look. Objections? Suggestions? I am not sure if vitalism is a model of consciousness. Yeah, this is more

Re: Re: more firewalls

2012-10-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:52:30 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: Craig, Neurons are made in accordance with physical laws. You are confusing string theory with comp which apparently makes everything. String theory monads are made in the big bang by having the excess dimensions of

Re: Re: more firewalls

2012-10-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
that. Craig On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:52:30 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: Craig, Neurons are made in accordance with physical laws. You are confusing string theory with comp which

Re: Re: more firewalls

2012-10-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
10, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 7:46:17 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: I disagree with everything you suggest. You are welcome to disagree, but without knowing why, I can only assume that you don't

Re: Re: more firewalls

2012-10-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
are not the ones living there? On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 7:46:17 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: I disagree with everything you suggest. You are welcome to disagree, but without knowing why

Re: Impossible connections

2012-10-11 Thread Craig Weinberg
. But it appears that two kinds of experiencers are necessary. The BEC just connects them. I do not care what you call that. Names are not important. Richard On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:47:47 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote

Re: The non-existence of spacetime

2012-10-11 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:03:15 AM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: Roger: So neither space and time nor spacetime physically exist. Richard: That is unscientific. Physics could be entirely wrong. But I will bet on physics being correct and you and Craig being incorrect. But you are

Re: The non-existence of spacetime

2012-10-11 Thread Craig Weinberg
agree with why my conjecture is wrong. Craig I will stick with the conventional definition of space and time. Richard On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 8:18 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:03:15 AM UTC-4, yanniru wrote

Re: John Doe's monad

2012-10-11 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:14:25 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg A whole man has a monad called, let's say, John Doe. In this case I would call 'having a monad', 'being a person' who identifies with the name John Doe (and I would say that the name define or influences

Re: The non-existence of spacetime

2012-10-11 Thread Craig Weinberg
that they are us and our experiences of our lives. Craig Enough preaching, Richard On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:26:03 AM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: Craig, I think Roger has an incorrect

Re: Universe on a Chip

2012-10-11 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, October 11, 2012 11:08:16 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: The problem is the meanwhile you have this meta-universe which is doing the computing, yes? What does it run on? On the true number relations. Indirectly on some false propositions too, as the meta-arithmetic,

Re: Impossible connections

2012-10-11 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:41:29 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: Brent, According to Einstein it takes massive objects to warp spacetime. Therefore a warped spacetime cannot be empty. Sure it can. What is mass? A relation between objects. Relativity shows us nothing if not that. Earth

Re: Impossible connections

2012-10-11 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, October 11, 2012 1:23:48 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: Nobody said it was empty. I was just correcting your misconception that spacetime had to be flat in the absence of matter. I'm saying that it is beyond empty. It is only the inferred distance between which objects define

Re: Conscious robots

2012-10-11 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, October 11, 2012 11:05:23 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: Consciousness is easy if you already have consciousness. It is impossible if you don't. But you believe in panexperientialism, you believe

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
They are certainly cool looking and biomorphic. The question I have is, at what point do they begin to have experiences...or do you think that those blobs have experiences already? Would it give them more of a human experience if an oscillating smiley-face/frowny-face algorithm were added

Re: The missing agent of materialism

2012-10-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, October 12, 2012 8:15:42 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi John Clark IMHO everything that happens happens for a reason. The reason can be physical or IMHO mental. Ok, but why are there any 'reasons' to begin with? If there can be reasons which did not exist before, then

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, October 12, 2012 10:23:57 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Oct 2012, at 14:50, Craig Weinberg wrote: They are certainly cool looking and biomorphic. The question I have is, at what point do they begin to have experiences...or do you think that those blobs have

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, October 12, 2012 4:42:56 PM UTC-4, Russell Standish wrote: On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 05:50:11AM -0700, Craig Weinberg wrote: They are certainly cool looking and biomorphic. The question I have is, at what point do they begin to have experiences...or do you think that those

My First Televised Interview

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
Well, local community TV anyways. Jose is a great host, producer, and editor though. Consciousness, Materialist Zombies and Multisense Realism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv8KrsRnx44 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To

Re: Re: Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of as if ratherthanis

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:59:50 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 4:15 AM, Roger Clough rcl...@verizon.netjavascript: wrote: ROGER: But if a computer beats you at an intelligent task, it would have to be programmed to do so. which means that its

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 13, 2012 7:41:10 PM UTC-4, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 02:11:59PM -0700, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, October 12, 2012 4:42:56 PM UTC-4, Russell Standish wrote: Assuming this system exhibits universality like the original GoL

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 13, 2012 7:54:44 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au javascript: wrote: I know you don't believe in COMP, but assuming COMP (I am open-minded on the topic), mass and chemical composition are irrelevant

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 13, 2012 8:05:26 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Since we know that our consciousness is exquisitely sensitive to particular masses of specific chemicals, yet relatively tolerant

Re: Re: Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of as if ratherthanis

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 13, 2012 7:49:03 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: But if a human beats you at an intelligent task he would have been programmed to do so - by evolution, by parents, teachers

Re: Re: Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of as if ratherthanis

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 13, 2012 9:24:15 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Two identical computers with identical programs taking environmental input from sensors only millimetres apart could produce

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, October 13, 2012 9:05:58 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Fading qualia is the only argument of Chalmers' that I disagree with. It's a natural mistake to make, but I think he goes wrong

Re: Re: Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of as if ratherthanis

2012-10-14 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, October 14, 2012 12:46:38 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Yes, the Big Bang is a program. There are initial conditions and rules that lead deterministically to the unfolding of the entire

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-14 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, October 14, 2012 1:04:54 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: No, he does NOT assume this. He assumes the opposite: that consciousness is a property of the brain and CANNOT be reproduced

Re: Re: Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of as if ratherthanis

2012-10-14 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, October 14, 2012 1:42:40 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: you can see from the differences between conjoined twins, who have the same nature and nurture, the same environment, that they are not the same

Re: My First Televised Interview

2012-10-14 Thread Craig Weinberg
, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Well, local community TV anyways. Jose is a great host, producer, and editor though. Consciousness, Materialist Zombies and Multisense Realism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv8KrsRnx44 -- You received this message because you

Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of as if ratherthanis

2012-10-14 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, October 14, 2012 2:19:14 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/14/2012 10:36 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 Roger Clough rcl...@verizon.net javascript:wrote: But if a computer beats you at an intelligent task, it would have to be programmed to do so. And you would

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 15, 2012 12:14:55 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: Since we know that our consciousness You don't know diddly squat about our consciousness, you only know about your consciousness; assuming

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 15, 2012 12:38:30 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I think he [Chambers] goes wrong by assuming a priori that consciousness is functional, I've asked you this question dozens

Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of as if ratherthanis

2012-10-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 15, 2012 11:49:52 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: Just because it looks to us that the computer is following rules doesn't mean that it is. So now you don't like computers because they don't

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 15, 2012 1:02:05 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: You don't know diddly squat about our consciousness, you only know about your consciousness; assuming of course that you

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 15, 2012 2:42:33 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/15/2012 9:41 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: And a computer is exquisitely sensitive to particular voltages and not sensitive at all to other voltages that don't make the threshold. Let's see how computer fares under

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, October 15, 2012 3:09:54 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/15/2012 11:48 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, October 15, 2012 2:42:33 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/15/2012 9:41 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: And a computer is exquisitely sensitive to particular voltages

Re: Re: Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of as if ratherthanis

2012-10-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:02:44 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 1:38 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: A possible answer is that all possible universes exist and we find ourselves in one of those that has the kind of physical laws

Re: Is consciousness just an emergent property of overly complex computations ?

2012-10-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
Computation is an overly simplified emergent property of sense. If you could have computation without sense, then there would be no consciousness. Craig On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 7:50:17 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Is consciousness just an emergent property of overly complex computations

Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of as if ratherthanis

2012-10-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:55:44 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: Did I ever say that I thought computers followed rules? I was under the impression that you believed all computers did was blindly follow programed

Re: Continuous Game of Life

2012-10-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:13:55 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I know you don't have a proof of the Goldbach Conjecture. Well OK, I don't know that with absolute certainty, maybe you have

Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of as if ratherthanis

2012-10-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:04:24 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: That there are literally laws which physics obeys is a fairy tale. That statement is ignorance pure and simple. Not at all. I

Re: Is consciousness just an emergent property of overly complex computations ?

2012-10-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:54:10 AM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Computation is an overly simplified emergent property of sense. If you could have computation without sense, then there would

Re: Is consciousness just an emergent property of overly complex computations ?

2012-10-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 9:08:49 AM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 10/16/2012 8:54 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Craig Weinbergwhats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Computation is an overly simplified emergent property of sense. If you could

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