Re: Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
Hi Craig Weinberg That's quite a stretch. You really expect me to believe that a rock in the path of a blind man walking would be detected by him ? Of course he could detect it with his cane, but what if he had none ? - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-21, 10:40:52 Subject: Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Monday, January 21, 2013 9:19:36 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg But nothing would exist for a blind man, since he can see nothing. Blind people can hear and feel and think, smell and taste, touch. Everything exists to the extent that it can be detected directly or indirectly. - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-21, 09:11:18 Subject: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Monday, January 21, 2013 4:54:58 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Could a blind man stub his toe ? Anyone can stub their toe. - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-20, 21:35:50 Subject: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy What would an alien intelligence help explain the origin of the universe? Wouldn't you just have to explain the origin of this alien intelligence? On Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:11:13 PM UTC-5, spudb...@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have an issue with thinking about God as an alien intelligence, which created the Hibble Volume (aka Universe)? Michael Shermer sort of put this concept together, perhaps in the hope of getting people to think, or possibly, to tick-off Christian Fundamentalist? I have no problem with this conceptualization. Is there a psycho-social, downside to this way of thinking? Or, maybe I have just gone off the deep-end, and Flying sphagetti monster here I come? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/wiperHBOCuMJ. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/Gp6t1_UEDC0J. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/I8qwrsvyd5IJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
Hi Craig Weinberg Could a blind man stub his toe ? - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-20, 21:35:50 Subject: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy What would an alien intelligence help explain the origin of the universe? Wouldn't you just have to explain the origin of this alien intelligence? On Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:11:13 PM UTC-5, spudb...@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have an issue with thinking about God as an alien intelligence, which created the Hibble Volume (aka Universe)? Michael Shermer sort of put this concept together, perhaps in the hope of getting people to think, or possibly, to tick-off Christian Fundamentalist? I have no problem with this conceptualization. Is there a psycho-social, downside to this way of thinking? Or, maybe I have just gone off the deep-end, and Flying sphagetti monster here I come? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/wiperHBOCuMJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
Hi spudboy100 Yes, God is an alien intelligence because he does many things we consider unjust. - Receiving the following content - From: spudboy100 Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-20, 21:11:13 Subject: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy Does anyone have an issue with thinking about God as an alien intelligence, which created the Hibble Volume (aka Universe)? Michael Shermer sort of put this concept together, perhaps in the hope of getting people to think, or possibly, to tick-off Christian Fundamentalist? I have no problem with this conceptualization. Is there a psycho-social, downside to this way of thinking? Or, maybe I have just gone off the deep-end, and Flying sphagetti monster here I come? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
On Monday, January 21, 2013 4:54:58 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Could a blind man stub his toe ? Anyone can stub their toe. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Craig Weinberg javascript: *Receiver:* everything-list javascript: *Time:* 2013-01-20, 21:35:50 *Subject:* Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy What would an alien intelligence help explain the origin of the universe? Wouldn't you just have to explain the origin of this alien intelligence? On Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:11:13 PM UTC-5, spudb...@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have an issue with thinking about God as an alien intelligence, which created the Hibble Volume (aka Universe)? Michael Shermer sort of put this concept together, perhaps in the hope of getting people to think, or possibly, to tick-off Christian Fundamentalist? I have no problem with this conceptualization. Is there a psycho-social, downside to this way of thinking? Or, maybe I have just gone off the deep-end, and Flying sphagetti monster here I come? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/wiperHBOCuMJ. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com javascript:. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/Gp6t1_UEDC0J. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
Hi Craig Weinberg But nothing would exist for a blind man, since he can see nothing. - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-21, 09:11:18 Subject: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Monday, January 21, 2013 4:54:58 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Could a blind man stub his toe ? Anyone can stub their toe. - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-20, 21:35:50 Subject: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy What would an alien intelligence help explain the origin of the universe? Wouldn't you just have to explain the origin of this alien intelligence? On Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:11:13 PM UTC-5, spudb...@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have an issue with thinking about God as an alien intelligence, which created the Hibble Volume (aka Universe)? Michael Shermer sort of put this concept together, perhaps in the hope of getting people to think, or possibly, to tick-off Christian Fundamentalist? I have no problem with this conceptualization. Is there a psycho-social, downside to this way of thinking? Or, maybe I have just gone off the deep-end, and Flying sphagetti monster here I come? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/wiperHBOCuMJ. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/Gp6t1_UEDC0J. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
On Monday, January 21, 2013 9:19:36 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg But nothing would exist for a blind man, since he can see nothing. Blind people can hear and feel and think, smell and taste, touch. Everything exists to the extent that it can be detected directly or indirectly. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Craig Weinberg javascript: *Receiver:* everything-list javascript: *Time:* 2013-01-21, 09:11:18 *Subject:* Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Monday, January 21, 2013 4:54:58 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Could a blind man stub his toe ? Anyone can stub their toe. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Craig Weinberg *Receiver:* everything-list *Time:* 2013-01-20, 21:35:50 *Subject:* Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy What would an alien intelligence help explain the origin of the universe? Wouldn't you just have to explain the origin of this alien intelligence? On Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:11:13 PM UTC-5, spudb...@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have an issue with thinking about God as an alien intelligence, which created the Hibble Volume (aka Universe)? Michael Shermer sort of put this concept together, perhaps in the hope of getting people to think, or possibly, to tick-off Christian Fundamentalist? I have no problem with this conceptualization. Is there a psycho-social, downside to this way of thinking? Or, maybe I have just gone off the deep-end, and Flying sphagetti monster here I come? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/wiperHBOCuMJ. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/Gp6t1_UEDC0J. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com javascript:. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/I8qwrsvyd5IJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
On 1/21/2013 9:19 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg But nothing would exist for a blind man, since he can see nothing. Dear Roger, Why are you hung up on vision? I think that Craig is including all possible senses. -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
Eventually, I sure would. But it would be a nice to know anyway. At this point to gather the evidence (what would that be??) would lead us to an actual conclusion and theory. Or we'd somehow be communication with this super ETI that created things. If we're speaking with a live mind, or a recording, then we'd have the answer(s). Which would likely lead to better questions. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
Rclough-you have me dead to rights. Busted on that one. That tends to be my attitude, because sometimes accepting, is really not caring. God's will, so screw. That sort of attitude. Or maybe its a way for people to cope, by not caring? But if caring does no good..? Round and round we go. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
On 18 Jan 2013, at 10:19, Roger Clough wrote: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. Glad you agree with me (and St Thomas) that God is obedient to some amount of logic and arithmetic. Even God cannot make 17 into a prime. Note that in Plotinus, and apparently (accepting some definitions) in computationalism, matter is eventually (in logical time) the product of God's lack of control on our 1-indeterminacy on the border of the divine intellect (Noùs). That's is coherent with the general platonist idea that, basically, matter is evil, but I am not sure I go as far as the traditional Platonists on this. Bruno - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
On 18 Jan 2013, at 23:12, meekerdb wrote: On 1/18/2013 1:19 AM, Roger Clough wrote: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. That's just silly. He is still described as punishing sins, and in particular the sin of not believing in him and not worshiping him. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. That's the god of deism, not Christianity. Which Christianity? Apparently here too there might be an important difference between European Christianism and American one. In Europa most christians are not literalist. They don't believe in Fairy tales, but they can divide on the opportunity to tell this to the weak people, which some believe to not been spiritually mature enough to search for the possible real thing. Bruno And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Men didn't create small pox, cholera, or childhood leukemia. Brent Christianity : The belief that a walking dead Jewish deity who was his own father although he always existed, commits suicide by cop, although he didn't really die, in order to give himself permission not to send you to an eternal place of torture that he created for you, but instead to make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh, drink his blood, and telepathically promise him you accept him as your master, so he can cleanse you of an evil force that is present in mankind because a rib-woman and a mud-man were convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
Hi Craig Weinberg Then you believe that God exists. That's a good start. - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-19, 09:55:18 Subject: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:22:38 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Many are called, but few are chosen. You mean many are called in error by an omnipotent-yet-incompetent God, or that they are intentionally called and abandoned by a all-loving-yet-consistently-cruel-and-indifferent God? [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 1/19/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-18, 17:31:03 Subject: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy The reasoning we can use to justify God's ways to man are identical to those we could use to justify the idea that Satan is actually the creator of the universe, and just uses the fiction of God to further torment and tyrannize man. If I were the Devil, I would dictate the bible exactly as it is, full of contradiction and irrelevant genealogy, sprinkled some profound wisdom and lurid violence. But alas, the Bible is just a book pieced together from scraps and re-written over centuries. Shakespeare was a better writer. Billions of people will live their whole lives without ever reading it, and their lives will be no worse for the loss. The bible is creepy if you ask me. It is no blessing. Craig On Friday, January 18, 2013 4:19:47 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/2oOpYw773iUJ. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/sTqccu4P5KoJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
On Sunday, January 20, 2013 2:08:09 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Then you believe that God exists. That's a good start. Can't I point out the absurdity of a belief without being accused of having it? - Receiving the following content - *From:* Craig Weinberg javascript: *Receiver:* everything-list javascript: *Time:* 2013-01-19, 09:55:18 *Subject:* Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:22:38 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Many are called, but few are chosen. You mean many are called in error by an omnipotent-yet-incompetent God, or that they are intentionally called and abandoned by a all-loving-yet-consistently-cruel-and-indifferent God? [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 1/19/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-18, 17:31:03 Subject: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy The reasoning we can use to justify God's ways to man are identical to those we could use to justify the idea that Satan is actually the creator of the universe, and just uses the fiction of God to further torment and tyrannize man. If I were the Devil, I would dictate the bible exactly as it is, full of contradiction and irrelevant genealogy, sprinkled some profound wisdom and lurid violence. But alas, the Bible is just a book pieced together from scraps and re-written over centuries. Shakespeare was a better writer. Billions of people will live their whole lives without ever reading it, and their lives will be no worse for the loss. The bible is creepy if you ask me. It is no blessing. Craig On Friday, January 18, 2013 4:19:47 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/2oOpYw773iUJ. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/sTqccu4P5KoJ. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com javascript:. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/gdJXht6KYKUJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
On 1/20/2013 3:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Even God cannot make 17 into a prime. And He cannot make it not prime either. So I guess he doesn't exist. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
On Sunday, January 20, 2013 2:43:42 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg So you belong to the liberal thought police then. Haha of course. How could it be possible for anyone to see the contradiction of the concept of God without 'belonging to the liberal thought police'? Not only can one not have freedom of speech, one cannot have freedom of beliefs. Liberalism is fascism, it seems. You are welcome to your beliefs, I am just explaining to you why they don't seem to make sense. I could decide that you just belong to the conservative apologists for irrationality but I don't see how that adds to my case. Conservatism may well be fascism, but I don't see what that could possibly have to do one way or the other with the logical inconsistency of a God who is functionally indistinguishable from Satan or randomness. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Craig Weinberg javascript: *Receiver:* everything-list javascript: *Time:* 2013-01-20, 14:18:16 *Subject:* Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Sunday, January 20, 2013 2:08:09 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Then you believe that God exists. That's a good start. Can't I point out the absurdity of a belief without being accused of having it? - Receiving the following content - *From:* Craig Weinberg *Receiver:* everything-list *Time:* 2013-01-19, 09:55:18 *Subject:* Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:22:38 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Many are called, but few are chosen. You mean many are called in error by an omnipotent-yet-incompetent God, or that they are intentionally called and abandoned by a all-loving-yet-consistently-cruel-and-indifferent God? [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 1/19/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-18, 17:31:03 Subject: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy The reasoning we can use to justify God's ways to man are identical to those we could use to justify the idea that Satan is actually the creator of the universe, and just uses the fiction of God to further torment and tyrannize man. If I were the Devil, I would dictate the bible exactly as it is, full of contradiction and irrelevant genealogy, sprinkled some profound wisdom and lurid violence. But alas, the Bible is just a book pieced together from scraps and re-written over centuries. Shakespeare was a better writer. Billions of people will live their whole lives without ever reading it, and their lives will be no worse for the loss. The bible is creepy if you ask me. It is no blessing. Craig On Friday, January 18, 2013 4:19:47 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/2oOpYw773iUJ. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/sTqccu4P5KoJ. To post to this group, send
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
Hi Craig Weinberg They don't make sense to you but they do make make sense to me. Could it be that you are a low information, low understanding person ? - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-20, 15:00:34 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Sunday, January 20, 2013 2:43:42 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg So you belong to the liberal thought police then. Haha of course. How could it be possible for anyone to see the contradiction of the concept of God without 'belonging to the liberal thought police'? Not only can one not have freedom of speech, one cannot have freedom of beliefs. Liberalism is fascism, it seems. You are welcome to your beliefs, I am just explaining to you why they don't seem to make sense. I could decide that you just belong to the conservative apologists for irrationality but I don't see how that adds to my case. Conservatism may well be fascism, but I don't see what that could possibly have to do one way or the other with the logical inconsistency of a God who is functionally indistinguishable from Satan or randomness. - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-20, 14:18:16 Subject: Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Sunday, January 20, 2013 2:08:09 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Then you believe that God exists. That's a good start. Can't I point out the absurdity of a belief without being accused of having it? - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-19, 09:55:18 Subject: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:22:38 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Many are called, but few are chosen. You mean many are called in error by an omnipotent-yet-incompetent God, or that they are intentionally called and abandoned by a all-loving-yet-consistently-cruel-and-indifferent God? [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 1/19/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-18, 17:31:03 Subject: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy The reasoning we can use to justify God's ways to man are identical to those we could use to justify the idea that Satan is actually the creator of the universe, and just uses the fiction of God to further torment and tyrannize man. If I were the Devil, I would dictate the bible exactly as it is, full of contradiction and irrelevant genealogy, sprinkled some profound wisdom and lurid violence. But alas, the Bible is just a book pieced together from scraps and re-written over centuries. Shakespeare was a better writer. Billions of people will live their whole lives without ever reading it, and their lives will be no worse for the loss. The bible is creepy if you ask me. It is no blessing. Craig On Friday, January 18, 2013 4:19:47 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/2oOpYw773iUJ. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
On Sunday, January 20, 2013 3:06:07 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg They don't make sense to you but they do make make sense to me. Could it be that you are a low information, low understanding person ? You can say that it makes sense to you, but I think that you just want it to make sense. I don't know that it makes you any kind of person or not, but I try not to draw conclusions about people based on the collection of ideas which they happen to have inherited. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Craig Weinberg javascript: *Receiver:* everything-list javascript: *Time:* 2013-01-20, 15:00:34 *Subject:* Re: Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Sunday, January 20, 2013 2:43:42 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg So you belong to the liberal thought police then. Haha of course. How could it be possible for anyone to see the contradiction of the concept of God without 'belonging to the liberal thought police'? Not only can one not have freedom of speech, one cannot have freedom of beliefs. Liberalism is fascism, it seems. You are welcome to your beliefs, I am just explaining to you why they don't seem to make sense. I could decide that you just belong to the conservative apologists for irrationality but I don't see how that adds to my case. Conservatism may well be fascism, but I don't see what that could possibly have to do one way or the other with the logical inconsistency of a God who is functionally indistinguishable from Satan or randomness. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Craig Weinberg *Receiver:* everything-list *Time:* 2013-01-20, 14:18:16 *Subject:* Re: Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Sunday, January 20, 2013 2:08:09 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Then you believe that God exists. That's a good start. Can't I point out the absurdity of a belief without being accused of having it? - Receiving the following content - *From:* Craig Weinberg *Receiver:* everything-list *Time:* 2013-01-19, 09:55:18 *Subject:* Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:22:38 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Many are called, but few are chosen. You mean many are called in error by an omnipotent-yet-incompetent God, or that they are intentionally called and abandoned by a all-loving-yet-consistently-cruel-and-indifferent God? [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 1/19/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-18, 17:31:03 Subject: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy The reasoning we can use to justify God's ways to man are identical to those we could use to justify the idea that Satan is actually the creator of the universe, and just uses the fiction of God to further torment and tyrannize man. If I were the Devil, I would dictate the bible exactly as it is, full of contradiction and irrelevant genealogy, sprinkled some profound wisdom and lurid violence. But alas, the Bible is just a book pieced together from scraps and re-written over centuries. Shakespeare was a better writer. Billions of people will live their whole lives without ever reading it, and their lives will be no worse for the loss. The bible is creepy if you ask me. It is no blessing. Craig On Friday, January 18, 2013 4:19:47 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. - Roger
Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
Does anyone have an issue with thinking about God as an alien intelligence, which created the Hibble Volume (aka Universe)? Michael Shermer sort of put this concept together, perhaps in the hope of getting people to think, or possibly, to tick-off Christian Fundamentalist? I have no problem with this conceptualization. Is there a psycho-social, downside to this way of thinking? Or, maybe I have just gone off the deep-end, and Flying sphagetti monster here I come? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
What would an alien intelligence help explain the origin of the universe? Wouldn't you just have to explain the origin of this alien intelligence? On Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:11:13 PM UTC-5, spudb...@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have an issue with thinking about God as an alien intelligence, which created the Hibble Volume (aka Universe)? Michael Shermer sort of put this concept together, perhaps in the hope of getting people to think, or possibly, to tick-off Christian Fundamentalist? I have no problem with this conceptualization. Is there a psycho-social, downside to this way of thinking? Or, maybe I have just gone off the deep-end, and Flying sphagetti monster here I come? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/wiperHBOCuMJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
Hi Craig Weinberg Many are called, but few are chosen. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/19/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-18, 17:31:03 Subject: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy The reasoning we can use to justify God's ways to man are identical to those we could use to justify the idea that Satan is actually the creator of the universe, and just uses the fiction of God to further torment and tyrannize man. If I were the Devil, I would dictate the bible exactly as it is, full of contradiction and irrelevant genealogy, sprinkled some profound wisdom and lurid violence. But alas, the Bible is just a book pieced together from scraps and re-written over centuries. Shakespeare was a better writer. Billions of people will live their whole lives without ever reading it, and their lives will be no worse for the loss. The bible is creepy if you ask me. It is no blessing. Craig On Friday, January 18, 2013 4:19:47 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/2oOpYw773iUJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
Hi meekerdb God causes everything to happen, so good, evil, cholera, good health, etc. Some of these he prefers, some not. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/19/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-18, 17:12:35 Subject: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy On 1/18/2013 1:19 AM, Roger Clough wrote: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. That's just silly. He is still described as punishing sins, and in particular the sin of not believing in him and not worshiping him. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. That's the god of deism, not Christianity. And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Men didn't create small pox, cholera, or childhood leukemia. Brent Christianity : The belief that a walking dead Jewish deity who was his own father although he always existed, commits suicide by cop, although he didn't really die, in order to give himself permission not to send you to an eternal place of torture that he created for you, but instead to make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh, drink his blood, and telepathically promise him you accept him as your master, so he can cleanse you of an evil force that is present in mankind because a rib-woman and a mud-man were convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
On Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:22:38 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Many are called, but few are chosen. You mean many are called in error by an omnipotent-yet-incompetent God, or that they are intentionally called and abandoned by a all-loving-yet-consistently-cruel-and-indifferent God? [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net javascript:] 1/19/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-18, 17:31:03 Subject: Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy The reasoning we can use to justify God's ways to man are identical to those we could use to justify the idea that Satan is actually the creator of the universe, and just uses the fiction of God to further torment and tyrannize man. If I were the Devil, I would dictate the bible exactly as it is, full of contradiction and irrelevant genealogy, sprinkled some profound wisdom and lurid violence. But alas, the Bible is just a book pieced together from scraps and re-written over centuries. Shakespeare was a better writer. Billions of people will live their whole lives without ever reading it, and their lives will be no worse for the loss. The bible is creepy if you ask me. It is no blessing. Craig On Friday, January 18, 2013 4:19:47 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/2oOpYw773iUJ. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.comjavascript:. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com javascript:. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/sTqccu4P5KoJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
Brent, you phrased beautifully your reply. Could be shorter: - hogwash - . JM On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 5:12 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 1/18/2013 1:19 AM, Roger Clough wrote: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. That's just silly. He is still described as punishing sins, and in particular the sin of not believing in him and not worshiping him. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. That's the god of deism, not Christianity. And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Men didn't create small pox, cholera, or childhood leukemia. Brent Christianity : The belief that a walking dead Jewish deity who was his own father although he always existed, commits suicide by cop, although he didn't really die, in order to give himself permission not to send you to an eternal place of torture that he created for you, but instead to make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh, drink his blood, and telepathically promise him you accept him as your master, so he can cleanse you of an evil force that is present in mankind because a rib-woman and a mud-man were convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.**comeverything-list@googlegroups.com . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscribe@ **googlegroups.com everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** group/everything-list?hl=enhttp://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
On 1/19/2013 3:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi meekerdb God causes everything to happen, so good, evil, cholera, good health, etc. Some of these he prefers, some not. Fine, but in that case there's no reason for me to admire, worship, or take any moral instruction from him...even if he existed. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
A God-limited God - My Theodicy
A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
Roger, you may be correct, yet the world is still a place red in truth and claw. Don't be surprised, if your theodicy, which works well for you, doesn't work so good for all. It's like a medicine that only is 30% effective. You still want to keep it around, but you must, as a physician, be aware of the limitation. On Free Will, we have the free will to like something or hate something. But that something still pushes on anyway. The tsunami still flows despite your prayers. So free will, is really just free opinion. -Original Message- From: Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net To: - mindbr...@yahoogroups.com mindbr...@yahoogroups.com; everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 4:19 am Subject: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. his is my theodicy, based on the Bible and eason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, uch as a loving God lashing out at sinners, ractically committing genocide, or a loving God llowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing vil and suffering in this world, can be attributed o a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has illingly limited his possible actions in this world o accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as he pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the ins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified y God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey is own justice. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. hysical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. od lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. And God has given man free will, so that men can o evil as well as good. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, n this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his owers of action. Roger Clough -- ou received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. o post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. o unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. or more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
On 1/18/2013 1:19 AM, Roger Clough wrote: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. That's just silly. He is still described as punishing sins, and in particular the sin of not believing in him and not worshiping him. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. That's the god of deism, not Christianity. And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Men didn't create small pox, cholera, or childhood leukemia. Brent Christianity : The belief that a walking dead Jewish deity who was his own father although he always existed, commits suicide by cop, although he didn't really die, in order to give himself permission not to send you to an eternal place of torture that he created for you, but instead to make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh, drink his blood, and telepathically promise him you accept him as your master, so he can cleanse you of an evil force that is present in mankind because a rib-woman and a mud-man were convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A God-limited God - My Theodicy
The reasoning we can use to justify God's ways to man are identical to those we could use to justify the idea that Satan is actually the creator of the universe, and just uses the fiction of God to further torment and tyrannize man. If I were the Devil, I would dictate the bible exactly as it is, full of contradiction and irrelevant genealogy, sprinkled some profound wisdom and lurid violence. But alas, the Bible is just a book pieced together from scraps and re-written over centuries. Shakespeare was a better writer. Billions of people will live their whole lives without ever reading it, and their lives will be no worse for the loss. The bible is creepy if you ask me. It is no blessing. Craig On Friday, January 18, 2013 4:19:47 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: A God-limited God - My Theodicy A theodicy is a justification of God's ways to man. This is my theodicy, based on the Bible and reason. Comments appreciated. Most of the so-called contradictions in the Bible, such as a loving God lashing out at sinners, practically committing genocide, or a loving God allowing tsunamis to happen, or a loving God allowing evil and suffering in this world, can be attributed to a misunderstanding of God's true nature. For reason, as well as the Bible, indicate that God has willingly limited his possible actions in this world to accord with his own pre-existing righteousness as well as the pre-existing truths of necessary reason. Thus that Christ had to die on the cross, instead of having the sins of mankind simply forgiven by God, can be justified by God's righteousness. That is, even God must obey his own justice. Similarly, God must obey the physics of his creation. Physical disasters happen. God can't make 2+2 =5. God lets the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. And God has given man free will, so that men can do evil as well as good. Although God has unlimited power in the kingdom of Heaven, in this imperfect, contingent world he has had to limit his powers of action. - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/2oOpYw773iUJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
