Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Samiya Illias]

Long Life – Reversed in Creation 
https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2016/06/long-life-reversed-in-creation.html
 




> On 09-Jan-2024, at 11:22 AM, LizR  wrote:
> 
> If you're always truthful, this post makes you immortal.
> 
>> On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 09:09, John Clark  wrote:
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> I just sent the following message to the Extropian list, as there has been 
>> some discussion of psi on this list too I thought I'd send it here also. One 
>> year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
>> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
>> 
>> Happy New Year all.
>> 
>> I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in 
>> Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous prediction, 
>> after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of people with no 
>> training have managed to observe it, or claim they have. And I am sure the 
>> good people at Nature and Science would want to say something about this 
>> very important and obvious part of our natural world if they could, but I 
>> predict they will be unable to find anything interesting to say about it. 
>> You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an 
>> eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the Higgs 
>> boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN in 
>> Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true 
>> because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me about it in a 
>> dream. PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year 
>> from today.
>> 
>>John K Clark
>> 
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Everything List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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> 
> -- 
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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[LizR]

If you're always truthful, this post makes you immortal.

On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 09:09, John Clark  wrote:
>
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> I just sent the following message to the Extropian list, as there has been 
> some discussion of psi on this list too I thought I'd send it here also. One 
> year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one 
> word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
> 
> Happy New Year all.
>
> I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in 
> Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous prediction, 
> after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of people with no training 
> have managed to observe it, or claim they have. And I am sure the good people 
> at Nature and Science would want to say something about this very important 
> and obvious part of our natural world if they could, but I predict they will 
> be unable to find anything interesting to say about it. You might think my 
> prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an eight's grade education 
> in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the Higgs boson with no difficulty 
> but the highly trained Physicists at CERN in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless 
> I am confident my prediction is true because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad 
> Duntoldme spoke to me about it in a dream. PS: I am also confident I can make 
> this very same prediction one year from today.
>
> John K Clark
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

I just sent the following message to the Extropian list, as there has been

some discussion of psi on this list too I thought I'd send it here also.

One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in

Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous

prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of

people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.

And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to

say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural

world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything

interesting to say about it.

You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an

eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the

Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN

in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true

because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me

about it in a dream.

PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from

today.

John K Clark

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Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Yeah, Samiya, it is surely possible an adventurous, trader would have reached 
the polar regions and there have been tales as you know of blond haired kuffar 
reaching Baghdad, Acre, Cairo, who spoke an unknown Kuffar language. So why not 
the other way? Muslim kingdoms were already established in Spain aka, Al 
Andalus. Nobody to stop a voyage out to the Atlantic. Past the Pillars of 
Hercules. There is an Irish Saint who sailed in a leather ship north of Ireland 
and encountered ice bergs (giant crystals floating in the sea!). I failed to 
locate a quote! Here is evidence of an Arab trader in northern Europe. When the 
Arabs met the Vikings: New discovery suggests ancient links 
(thenationalnews.com)
Is Quaran and Soonah always correct as in accurate? For me, this is not my 
battle today. For me, all now are the Houses of War, and before this, we were 
all war makers. My feeling is not a holy man, but logic, where it is better to 
be a live warrior than a dead victim. Or, as American writer, Robert Heinlein 
wrote, "It is better to be a live lion than a dead duck." Do I see Heinlein as 
ever accurate? NO.

We must slog along as best we can. We'll see if we can make machines cleverer 
than us (better at discovering inventions, not conscious things-are they like 
Jinns??). Will they, it, try to kill us? 

-Original Message-
From: Samiya Illias 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, Jan 4, 2023 12:25 am
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year


Dhu al Qarnayn visited the Polar Regions? 
https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/06/dhu-al-qarnayn-polar-regions-of-earth.html
 



On 03-Jan-2023, at 11:23 PM, John Clark  wrote:



Who gives a damn what the Quran asks us to do? The people who wrote it didn't 
even know where the sun went at night.
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Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Samiya Illias]

Dhu al Qarnayn visited the Polar Regions? 
https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/06/dhu-al-qarnayn-polar-regions-of-earth.html
 



> On 03-Jan-2023, at 11:23 PM, John Clark  wrote:
> 
> Who gives a damn what the Quran asks us to do? The people who wrote it didn't 
> even know where the sun went at night.

-- 
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Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 11:21 PM Samiya Illias 
wrote:

> *The Quran asks us to* [...blah blah blah]


Who gives a damn what the Quran asks us to do? The people who wrote it
didn't even know where the sun went at night.

 John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

den


>

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Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Samiya Illias]

The Mighty Ancients!
Abstract
The Earth is dotted with ancient ruins.The Quran asks us to take heed from 
these ruins, as those civilisations were ‘greater in strength and in impression 
on the land’. This study explores what the Quran states about the ancients, as 
well as lists the discoveries of ancient ruins. It is interesting to note that, 
contrary to popular belief, both point towards mighty civilisations which 
flourished in the ancient past.   


Full Text 
http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-mighty-ancients.html 


> On 03-Jan-2023, at 9:02 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List 
>  wrote:
> 
> The ancient Greeks did science, so I feel they deserve full credit. I suspect 
> India/Hindus did math for sure, but also did engineering. The Chinese were 
> super duper with engineering, but despite their brilliance got ruined by who 
> governed them. Is history repeating itself there? 

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Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

My thinking is that after Christianity grew in the Roman Empire, and 
Constantine has his epiphany in battle, Christianity became the religion of 
empire. It (Christianity) also became Romanized, where the bishops were 
organized as the Roman empire government was structured. To the emperor, a 
bishop elected as Pope                  To the Roman Senate -a College of 
Cardinals,                   Etc., with bishops, prelates, priests, and 
brothers. In post Roman Europe manorialism became feudalism out of necessity, 
and slaves on Roman manors became serfs. Christian society was divided into a 
trinity of "Those who fight, those who pray, those who work." 
Here's a historic, stumble-upon I find intriguing. It may bore you to tears 
which means, each to their own Note, that it does mention Paul, since you're a 
fan. https://bible.org/article/origins-church-rome

The ancient Greeks did science, so I feel they deserve full credit. I suspect 
India/Hindus did math for sure, but also did engineering. The Chinese were 
super duper with engineering, but despite their brilliance got ruined by who 
governed them. Is history repeating itself there? 


-Original Message-
From: Philip Benjamin 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2023 10:59 am
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year

 [Philip Benjamin] These questions are irrelevant to 
WAMP-the-Ingrate!!           Questions: 
   - Who, what where, how caused Reformation?  Established Church? Roman monks 
and clerics?  Atheists? Scientists? Greco-Roman pagans?
   -  When, how,  where, why modern science began? What or who caused it?
   -   What caused modern or colonial expeditions and investigations? 
Landlocked Islam that stopped all Western access to the Eastern trade and 
commerce? Or liberty and tolerance of alien cultures? 
 Philip Benjamin       From: spudboy100  Sent: Sunday, January 1, 2023 12:43 AM
To: medinucl...@hotmail.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year    Ok, just to be clear you are indicating that pure, Christianity started 
with The Protestant Reformation? So, is Martin Luther the founder of The 
Church, or Henry the 8th, Calvin? John Knox? We still go back to the sciences 
which dictate to us, no matter what one's philosophical views are, it is what 
one can produce in real life?  -Original Message-
From: Philip Benjamin 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Dec 30, 2022 3:13 pm
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year [Philip Benjamin]    . Nothing pertinent. What is relevant here is 
that occultism is paganism, pagans have been transformed without 
self-reformation. Moses was an adopted Egyptian murder prince, Saul of Tarsus 
qas a murder, pharisee Rabii, Augustine was a Greco-Roman pagan profligate. 
Nothing to do with unregenerated “conscious” states. And so many ordinary 
peoples besides.   Philip Benjamin Friday, December 30, 2022 11:00 AM
To: medinucl...@hotmail.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year spudboy100@ ;everything-list@googlegroups.com  I know little of 
the Church fathers am not sure of Paul of Tarsus (Tent maker for the Roman 
legions) was a Rabbi. But,He was for you guys, nevertheless, on his road to 
Tarsus! I did learn this year that most of the bishops were the sons of Roman 
senators who still inherited the manors after the Sack of Rome in 476 AD., It 
really expanded the Church origins for me. They made the structure of The 
Church identical to the fallen empire. For me it explained a lot of Europe's 
history, its religion, its class system, and so forth. Not to mention the 
Eastern Empire which continued for 9 centuries before it got absorbed into 
Islam. 1453 AD.   How the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 Changed History 
Forever (thehistoryace.com)   If the vast, amount of scientific research is 
conducted by Pagans-Atheists-Agnostics, and they generate the preponderance of 
the measurable data with, (repeatable experiments) what are you going to do? I 
suppose we shall wait for The Book of Revelations to finally play out, and The 
Hero to return to the stage to judge the living and the dead? Do you think the 
new heaven and the new earth will be from this?  spudboy100@ 
;everything-list@googlegroups.com ​ Dyson spheres: The key to resurrection 
and immortality? - Big Think (Be warned, Pagan!)     Cosmic chocolate pralines? 
General neutron star structure revealed (phys.org)   Happy New Year to All! 
Cosmologically speaking that is.   -Original Message-
From: Philip Benjamin 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Dec 30, 2022 10:54 am
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year general_the...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A 
paranormal prediction for the

RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Philip Benjamin]

[Philip Benjamin] These questions are irrelevant to WAMP-the-Ingrate!!
   Questions:

  1.  Who, what where, how caused Reformation?  Established Church? Roman monks 
and clerics?  Atheists? Scientists? Greco-Roman pagans?
  2.   When, how,  where, why modern science began? What or who caused it?
  3.What caused modern or colonial expeditions and investigations? 
Landlocked Islam that stopped all Western access to the Eastern trade and 
commerce? Or liberty and tolerance of alien cultures?

Philip Benjamin

From: spudboy100  Sent: Sunday, January 1, 2023 12:43 AM
To: medinucl...@hotmail.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year

Ok, just to be clear you are indicating that pure, Christianity started with 
The Protestant Reformation? So, is Martin Luther the founder of The Church, or 
Henry the 8th, Calvin? John Knox? We still go back to the sciences which 
dictate to us, no matter what one's philosophical views are, it is what one can 
produce in real life?
-Original Message-
From: Philip Benjamin mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>>
To: Everything List 
mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Fri, Dec 30, 2022 3:13 pm
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year
[Philip Benjamin]
   . Nothing pertinent. What is relevant here is that occultism is 
paganism, pagans have been transformed without self-reformation. Moses was an 
adopted Egyptian murder prince, Saul of Tarsus qas a murder, pharisee Rabii, 
Augustine was a Greco-Roman pagan profligate. Nothing to do with unregenerated 
“conscious” states. And so many ordinary peoples besides.
Philip Benjamin
Friday, December 30, 2022 11:00 AM
To: medinucl...@hotmail.com<mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>; 
everything-list@googlegroups.com<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year
spudboy100@<mailto:spudboy...@aol.com> ; 
everything-list@googlegroups.com<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>
 I know little of the Church fathers am not sure of Paul of Tarsus 
(Tent maker for the Roman legions) was a Rabbi. But,He was for you guys, 
nevertheless, on his road to Tarsus! I did learn this year that most of the 
bishops were the sons of Roman senators who still inherited the manors after 
the Sack of Rome in 476 AD., It really expanded the Church origins for me. They 
made the structure of The Church identical to the fallen empire. For me it 
explained a lot of Europe's history, its religion, its class system, and so 
forth. Not to mention the Eastern Empire which continued for 9 centuries before 
it got absorbed into Islam. 1453 AD.

How the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 Changed History Forever 
(thehistoryace.com)<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fthehistoryace.com%2Fhow-the-fall-of-constantinople-in-1453-changed-history-forever%2F=05%7C01%7C%7C5a8d9b66d3b74ef5fdfa08daebc36599%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638081521700548696%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=zzgdQ1vEEl4kejyp0vTupldQFwpuBW%2BdKQKC4XWscfE%3D=0>

If the vast, amount of scientific research is conducted by 
Pagans-Atheists-Agnostics, and they generate the preponderance of the 
measurable data with, (repeatable experiments) what are you going to do? I 
suppose we shall wait for The Book of Revelations to finally play out, and The 
Hero to return to the stage to judge the living and the dead?
Do you think the new heaven and the new earth will be from this?
spudboy100@<mailto:spudboy...@aol.com> ; 
everything-list@googlegroups.com<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>
​  Dyson spheres: The key to resurrection and immortality? - Big 
Think<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbigthink.com%2Fhard-science%2Fdyson-spheres%2F=05%7C01%7C%7C5a8d9b66d3b74ef5fdfa08daebc36599%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638081521700548696%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=KTZ5H2G1o9Cxo9Fpuu08L4GTrSxrzFLH6Ca2O6R5jzc%3D=0>
 (Be warned, Pagan!)


Cosmic chocolate pralines? General neutron star structure revealed 
(phys.org)<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphys.org%2Fnews%2F2022-11-cosmic-chocolate-pralines-general-neutron.html=05%7C01%7C%7C5a8d9b66d3b74ef5fdfa08daebc36599%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638081521700548696%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=ngjTOlAgE0dgBmnihGeQZl2yXb8thU%2FaawPi3aHLxkY%3D=0>

Happy New Year to All!
Cosmologically speaking that is.

-Original Message-
From: Philip Benjamin mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>>
To: Everything List 
mailto:everyth

Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Ok, just to be clear you are indicating that pure, Christianity started with 
The Protestant Reformation? So, is Martin Luther the founder of The Church, or 
Henry the 8th, Calvin? John Knox? We still go back to the sciences which 
dictate to us, no matter what one's philosophical views are, it is what one can 
produce in real life? 

-Original Message-
From: Philip Benjamin 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Dec 30, 2022 3:13 pm
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year

 [Philip Benjamin]    . Nothing 
pertinent. What is relevant here is that occultism is paganism, pagans have 
been transformed without self-reformation. Moses was an adopted Egyptian murder 
prince, Saul of Tarsus qas a murder, pharisee Rabii, Augustine was a 
Greco-Roman pagan profligate. Nothing to do with unregenerated “conscious” 
states. And so many ordinary peoples besides.   Philip Benjamin  Friday, 
December 30, 2022 11:00 AM
To: medinucl...@hotmail.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year spudboy100@ ; everything-list@googlegroups.comI know little of the 
Church fathers am not sure of Paul of Tarsus (Tent maker for the Roman legions) 
was a Rabbi. But,He was for you guys, nevertheless, on his road to Tarsus! I 
did learn this year that most of the bishops were the sons of Roman senators 
who still inherited the manors after the Sack of Rome in 476 AD., It really 
expanded the Church origins for me. They made the structure of The Church 
identical to the fallen empire. For me it explained a lot of Europe's history, 
its religion, its class system, and so forth. Not to mention the Eastern Empire 
which continued for 9 centuries before it got absorbed into Islam. 1453 AD.    
How the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 Changed History Forever 
(thehistoryace.com)    If the vast, amount of scientific research is conducted 
by Pagans-Atheists-Agnostics, and they generate the preponderance of the 
measurable data with, (repeatable experiments) what are you going to do? I 
suppose we shall wait for The Book of Revelations to finally play out, and The 
Hero to return to the stage to judge the living and the dead? Do you think the 
new heaven and the new earth will be from this?  spudboy100@ 
;everything-list@googlegroups.com ​ Dyson spheres: The key to resurrection 
and immortality? - Big Think (Be warned, Pagan!)       Cosmic chocolate 
pralines? General neutron star structure revealed (phys.org)    Happy New Year 
to All! Cosmologically speaking that is.    -Original Message-
From: Philip Benjamin 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Dec 30, 2022 10:54 am
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year general_the...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A 
paranormal prediction for the next year [Philip Benjamin]  I remember a 
high elected member of the federal government who was very conservative with 
respect to classical norms and mores abruptly endorsing alternate lifestyle 
correct and normal when a close relative came out of the closet.    The 
question here is, what makes modern paganism ( ancient heathenism) different 
from a rebirth or regeneration life and consequent culture or ethos. Physical 
BIRTH for a person is ONLY once. So also, REBIRTH is ONLY once by regeneration. 
Augustinian transformation is an example. Myriads of others can be 
cited—Abraham, Moses, Rabbi Saul of Tarsus etc. A transformation is 
reformation, but all reformations but not vice versa. That is a historical and 
historic difference with distinction.  WAMP the-Ingrate knows not!! Philip 
Benjamin      From: 'Rosemary   via Consciousness-Online 

Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2022 3:47 PM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year   Dear Philip ,   What a wonderfully useful 
linkhttps://www.richardcassaro.com/prince-charles-publicly-reveals-the-secret-doctrine-of-the-occult/
 2016. Thank you

. -- 
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RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Philip Benjamin]

[Philip Benjamin]
   . Nothing pertinent. What is relevant here is that occultism is 
paganism, pagans have been transformed without self-reformation. Moses was an 
adopted Egyptian murder prince, Saul of Tarsus qas a murder, pharisee Rabii, 
Augustine was a Greco-Roman pagan profligate. Nothing to do with unregenerated 
“conscious” states. And so many ordinary peoples besides.
Philip Benjamin
Friday, December 30, 2022 11:00 AM
To: medinucl...@hotmail.com; everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year
spudboy100@<mailto:spudboy...@aol.com> ; 
everything-list@googlegroups.com<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>
 I know little of the Church fathers am not sure of Paul of Tarsus 
(Tent maker for the Roman legions) was a Rabbi. But,He was for you guys, 
nevertheless, on his road to Tarsus! I did learn this year that most of the 
bishops were the sons of Roman senators who still inherited the manors after 
the Sack of Rome in 476 AD., It really expanded the Church origins for me. They 
made the structure of The Church identical to the fallen empire. For me it 
explained a lot of Europe's history, its religion, its class system, and so 
forth. Not to mention the Eastern Empire which continued for 9 centuries before 
it got absorbed into Islam. 1453 AD.

How the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 Changed History Forever 
(thehistoryace.com)<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fthehistoryace.com%2Fhow-the-fall-of-constantinople-in-1453-changed-history-forever%2F=05%7C01%7C%7Caafb8db995b1423793cc08daea875d9a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638080164357345981%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=IUfJuJVGdOb7YI6tVDCKLoqqeCQYWE3Hc7LCSGFm54k%3D=0>

If the vast, amount of scientific research is conducted by 
Pagans-Atheists-Agnostics, and they generate the preponderance of the 
measurable data with, (repeatable experiments) what are you going to do? I 
suppose we shall wait for The Book of Revelations to finally play out, and The 
Hero to return to the stage to judge the living and the dead?
Do you think the new heaven and the new earth will be from this?
spudboy100@<mailto:spudboy...@aol.com> ; 
everything-list@googlegroups.com<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>
​  Dyson spheres: The key to resurrection and immortality? - Big 
Think<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbigthink.com%2Fhard-science%2Fdyson-spheres%2F=05%7C01%7C%7Caafb8db995b1423793cc08daea875d9a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638080164357345981%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=gR8T%2FYAKd4OBbiqwlzLPNlJSC%2Bk6%2FHfjAt3%2FtJq4INc%3D=0>
 (Be warned, Pagan!)


Cosmic chocolate pralines? General neutron star structure revealed 
(phys.org)<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphys.org%2Fnews%2F2022-11-cosmic-chocolate-pralines-general-neutron.html=05%7C01%7C%7Caafb8db995b1423793cc08daea875d9a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638080164357345981%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=jhfXhDCHOy7nPVX8Vtzxbt2yrZyQuVNkEeDVSBH7tU4%3D=0>

Happy New Year to All!
Cosmologically speaking that is.

-Original Message-
From: Philip Benjamin 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Dec 30, 2022 10:54 am
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year
general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>  
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year
[Philip Benjamin]
 I remember a high elected member of the federal government who was very 
conservative with respect to classical norms and mores abruptly endorsing 
alternate lifestyle correct and normal when a close relative came out of the 
closet.
  The question here is, what makes modern paganism ( ancient heathenism) 
different from a rebirth or regeneration life and consequent culture or ethos. 
Physical BIRTH for a person is ONLY once. So also, REBIRTH is ONLY once by 
regeneration. Augustinian transformation is an example. Myriads of others can 
be cited—Abraham, Moses, Rabbi Saul of Tarsus etc. A transformation is 
reformation, but all reformations but not vice versa. That is a historical and 
historic difference with distinction.  WAMP the-Ingrate knows not!!
Philip Benjamin

From: 'Rosemaryvia Consciousness-Online 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2022 3:47 PM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year

Dear Philip ,

What a wonderfully useful link 
https://www.richardcas

Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

I know little of the Church fathers am not sure of Paul of Tarsus (Tent maker 
for the Roman legions) was a Rabbi. But,He was for you guys, nevertheless, on 
his road to Tarsus! I did learn this year that most of the bishops were the 
sons of Roman senators who still inherited the manors after the Sack of Rome in 
476 AD., It really expanded the Church origins for me. They made the structure 
of The Church identical to the fallen empire. For me it explained a lot of 
Europe's history, its religion, its class system, and so forth. Not to mention 
the Eastern Empire which continued for 9 centuries before it got absorbed into 
Islam. 1453 AD.
How the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 Changed History Forever 
(thehistoryace.com)
If the vast, amount of scientific research is conducted by 
Pagans-Atheists-Agnostics, and they generate the preponderance of the 
measurable data with, (repeatable experiments) what are you going to do? I 
suppose we shall wait for The Book of Revelations to finally play out, and The 
Hero to return to the stage to judge the living and the dead?
Do you think the new heaven and the new earth will be from this? 
​Dyson spheres: The key to resurrection and immortality? - Big Think (Be 
warned, Pagan!)


To me, it sort of even looks like a Christmas Ornament, or a 70's disco ball. 
if one prefers? 
Remember the bumper sticker, WWJD? Promoting the idea of Jesus as a moral guide 
on human relations. (What Would Jesus Do?). I always thought it would be better 
in a theological fashion to change it to HWJSI, How Would Jesus Do It? The 
mechanics, the physics, the mechanism. It makes (for most I suspect) Word, 
Flesh. It makes it more real. Or at least less vague, less hand waving. This is 
why I am such big Frank Tipler fan, (Christian) and also a fan of roboticist, 
Hans Moravec. (Atheist). More recently, with Guilio Prisco (atheist and retired 
physicist). There are others, many of whom are simply writers on the topic. So, 
if you blame me for anything, it's cherry-picking scholars. 
I could throw in Lee Smolin, sort of, but I'll see if this email passes you by, 
or it garners a response.
 I do like the Dyson Spere thing (new heaven + earth). Plenty of physical room 
for lots of people, either as physical humans or as restored computer proggies? 
The Dyson Sphere is closer to Moravec's conception where "simulators" possibly 
made from super dense neutron star material (Moravec wrote) would Rez the dead. 
Tipler's Singularity is more profound emotionally, but a fantastically longer 
wait! Astronomers, using microwave receivers aimed at neutron stars have noted 
pasta patterns of crushed neutron star material. I wondered if somehow this 
could be analogous to the human brain? Are Neutron stars conscious? Blah Blah 
Blah...? 


Cosmic chocolate pralines? General neutron star structure revealed (phys.org)

Happy New Year to All!Cosmologically speaking that is.



-Original Message-
From: Philip Benjamin 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Dec 30, 2022 10:54 am
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year

 general_the...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: 
[Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next year [Philip 
Benjamin]  I remember a high elected member of the federal government who 
was very conservative with respect to classical norms and mores abruptly 
endorsing alternate lifestyle correct and normal when a close relative came out 
of the closet.   The question here is, what makes modern paganism ( ancient 
heathenism) different from a rebirth or regeneration life and consequent 
culture or ethos. Physical BIRTH for a person is ONLY once. So also, REBIRTH is 
ONLY once by regeneration. Augustinian transformation is an example. Myriads of 
others can be cited—Abraham, Moses, Rabbi Saul of Tarsus etc. A transformation 
is reformation, but all reformations but not vice versa. That is a historical 
and historic difference with distinction.  WAMP the-Ingrate knows not!!  Philip 
Benjamin       From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online 

Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2022 3:47 PM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year    Dear Philip ,    What a wonderfully useful link 
https://www.richardcassaro.com/prince-charles-publicly-reveals-the-secret-doctrine-of-the-occult/
 2016. Thank you

Being interested in the occult is not satanism

Lewis Carroll had a large library of occult books 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TmtPoxzoXo

Abraham Lincoln - Abraham Lincoln was clearly open to spiritual communication 
and the reason I say this is because he used the services of a medium called 
Nettie Colburn. Most of what Nettie achieved under trance conditions for him, 
could only have been achieved by there being very strong inter composer 
communication between the two of them. Furthermore both Abraham Lincoln and his 
wife were

RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Philip Benjamin]

general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>  
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year
[Philip Benjamin]
 I remember a high elected member of the federal government who was very 
conservative with respect to classical norms and mores abruptly endorsing 
alternate lifestyle correct and normal when a close relative came out of the 
closet.
  The question here is, what makes modern paganism ( ancient heathenism) 
different from a rebirth or regeneration life and consequent culture or ethos. 
Physical BIRTH for a person is ONLY once. So also, REBIRTH is ONLY once by 
regeneration. Augustinian transformation is an example. Myriads of others can 
be cited-Abraham, Moses, Rabbi Saul of Tarsus etc. A transformation is 
reformation, but all reformations but not vice versa. That is a historical and 
historic difference with distinction.  WAMP the-Ingrate knows not!!
Philip Benjamin

From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2022 3:47 PM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: A paranormal prediction for the next 
year

Dear Philip ,



What a wonderfully useful link 
https://www.richardcassaro.com/prince-charles-publicly-reveals-the-secret-doctrine-of-the-occult/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.richardcassaro.com%2Fprince-charles-publicly-reveals-the-secret-doctrine-of-the-occult%2F=05%7C01%7C%7C353cba6d067f43588e7808dae91d15d6%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638078608372975903%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=Urcuhj6wZtIvkPr%2BzRoc3%2FeeysBTuBeUnRhXiH9P7gY%3D=0>
 2016. Thank you

Being interested in the occult is not satanism

Lewis Carroll had a large library of occult books 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TmtPoxzoXo

Abraham Lincoln - Abraham Lincoln was clearly open to spiritual communication 
and the reason I say this is because he used the services of a medium called 
Nettie Colburn. Most of what Nettie achieved under trance conditions for him, 
could only have been achieved by there being very strong inter composer 
communication between the two of them. Furthermore both Abraham Lincoln and his 
wife were believers in the spiritual world and the power of mediums.
https://allaboutheaven.org/sources/lincoln-abraham/151/main

-- 
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RE: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Philip Benjamin]

[Philip Benjamin]
Not only WAMP-the-Ingrate, the WHITE HOUSE, governments, businesses, many 
churches, synagogues, religious centers etc. are deep into occultism ( even in 
the past,  Russian Rasputin, Tzar Nicholas, Hitler, British Royals etc.)  
References below. Trickeries of the real entities of darkness!
References. The Occult Connections of Hillary Clinton
https://www.richardcassaro.com/prince-charles-publicly-reveals-the-secret-doctrine-of-the-occult/
 2016.In September 2006, Prince Charles publicly revealed what can arguably 
be called "the Secret Doctrine of the Occult" in a 16-minute long, 
specially-videotaped address to the Sacred Web Conference at the University of 
Alberta, in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
https://redice.tv/news/the-british-occult-secret-service
Queen Elizabeth I & Francis Walsingham
 https://redice.tv/news/the-british-occult-secret-service
Five Creepy Royal Family Facts  April 14, 2017 By: A.L.Cuin
10 Royals Who Dabbled in the Occult  by Lorna Wallace
https://theparanormalsite.com/the-occult-connections-of-hillary-clinton/
  The Occult Connections of Hillary Clinton
https://www.truthandaction.org/hillary-clinton-referred-satanic-occult-high-priestess/
   Hillary Clinton Referred to as Satanic, Occult High Priestess

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
 On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2022 12:34 PM
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
Subject: A paranormal prediction for the next year

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

.

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A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

I just sent the following message to the Extropian list, as there has been

some discussion of psi on this list too I thought I'd sent it here also.

One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in

Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous

prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of

people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.

And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to

say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural

world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything

interesting to say about it.

You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an

eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the

Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN

in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true

because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me

about it in a dream.

PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from

today.

John K Clark

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A paranormal prediction for the next year.

[John Clark]

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

I just sent the following message to the Extropian list, as there has been

some discussion of psi on this list too I thought I'd sent it here also.

One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in

Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous

prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of

people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.

And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to

say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural

world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything

interesting to say about it.

You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an

eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the

Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN

in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true

because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me

about it in a dream.

PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from

today.

John K Clark

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year.

[smitra]

On 27-12-2020 12:15, John Clark wrote:

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet
again.


One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet
again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet
again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet
again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet
again.


One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

I just sent the following message to the Extropian list, as there has
been
 some discussion of psi on this list too I thought I'd sent it here
also.
 One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear
in
 Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
 prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
 people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they
have.
 And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
 say something about this very important and obvious part of our
natural
 world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find
anything
 interesting to say about it.
 You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with
an
 eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
 Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at
CERN
 in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is
true
 because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
 about it in a dream.
 PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year
from
 today.

John K Clark


I agree, but people are easily fooled:

https://www.thehour.com/news/article/No-a-self-proclaimed-psychic-did-not-predict-15137409.php

"Over the last week, a passage from a book by self-proclaimed psychic 
Sylvia Browne has gone viral on social media because of its supposed 
prediction of the coronavirus.


"In around 2020, a severe pneumonia-like illness will spread throughout 
the globe, attacking the lungs and the bronchial tubes and resisting all 
known treatments," reads the first part of the passage, posted to 
Twitter by celebrities including Kim Kardashian.


Now, it seems many people are giving credence to the existence of 
"psychics," or at least one psychic — Browne — whose 2008 book, "End of 
Days," has shot up toward the top of the best-sellers in the "Christian 
books and Bibles" category on Amazon, likely because of recent 
attention.


Browne, who died in 2013, wasn't infallible when it came to predictions 
— in fact, very far from it.


In a 2004 episode of The Montel Williams Show, where she appeared as a 
regular contributor to answer questions from audience members (who were 
often dealing with emotional trauma), she told the mother of Amanda 
Berry that her daughter had died; Berry was kidnapped by Ariel Castro 
and later found alive. Browne remained quiet in the aftermath, though 
Williams eventually apologized.


Among predictions in dozens of her other books and on her website, she 
also predicted that a cure for the common cold would exist and aliens 
would have revealed themselves by now, in addition to providing false 
information on several missing 

A paranormal prediction for the next year.

[John Clark]

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

I just sent the following message to the Extropian list, as there has been

some discussion of psi on this list too I thought I'd sent it here also.

One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in

Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous

prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of

people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.

And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to

say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural

world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything

interesting to say about it.

You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an

eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the

Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN

in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true

because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me

about it in a dream.

PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from

today.

John K Clark

-- 
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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1220538/world-war-3-us-army-telepathy-helmet-communicate-silence-combat-sptHappy
 New Year! Bwah hah hah hah !! 
٩(^‿^)۶
-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Sun, Dec 29, 2019 11:54 am
Subject: A paranormal prediction for the next year

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

I just sent the following message to the Extropian list, as there has been some 
discussion of psi on this list too I thought I'd sent it here also. One year 
from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in Nature 
or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous prediction, after all 
psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of people with no training have 
managed to observe it, or claim they have. And I am sure the good people at 
Nature and Science would want to say something about this very important and 
obvious part of our natural world if they could, but I predict they will be 
unable to find anything interesting to say about it. You might think my 
prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an eight's grade education in 
Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the Higgs boson with no difficulty but 
the highly trained Physicists at CERN in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am 
confident my prediction is true because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad 
Duntoldme spoke to me about it in a dream. PS: I am also confident I can make 
this very same prediction one year from today.

    John K Clark
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A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

I just sent the following message to the Extropian list, as there has been

some discussion of psi on this list too I thought I'd sent it here also.

One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in

Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous

prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of

people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.

And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to

say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural

world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything

interesting to say about it.

You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an

eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the

Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN

in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true

because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me

about it in a dream.

PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from

today.

John K Clark

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
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A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.


One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



I just sent the following message to the Extropian list, as there has been
some discussion of psi on this list too I thought I'd sent it here also.
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.
And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural
world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything
interesting to say about it.
You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an
eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN
in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true
because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
about it in a dream.
PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from
today.

John K Clark

-- 
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A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



I just sent the following message to the Extropian list, as there has been
​ ​
some discussion of psi on this list too I thought I'd sent it here also.
​ ​
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
​ ​
Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
​ ​
prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
​ ​
people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.
​ ​
And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
​ ​
say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural
​ ​
world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything
​ ​
interesting to say about it.
​ ​
You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an
​ ​
eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
​ ​
Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN
​ ​
in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true
​ ​
because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
​ ​
about it in a dream.
​ ​
PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from
​ ​
today.

John K Clark

-- 
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
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A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



I just sent the following message to the Extropian list, as there has been
​ ​
some discussion of psi on this list too I thought I'd sent it here also.
​ ​
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
​ ​
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
​ ​
Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
​ ​
prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
​ ​
people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.
​ ​
And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
​ ​
say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural
​ ​
world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything
​ ​
interesting to say about it.
​ ​
You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an
​ ​
eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
​ ​
Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN
​ ​
in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true
​ ​
because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
​ ​
about it in a dream.
​ ​
PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from
​ ​
today.

John K Clark

-- 
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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

 

 Muhammeddonetoldme? He must have listened to Muhammad's Radio (Warren Zevon).

 

-Original Message-
From: John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 30, 2015 1:30 pm
Subject: A paranormal prediction for the next year






One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.













One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the beginning 
of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list about the paranormal 
and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake and other forms of infantile 
junk science has come up here I thought I'd send it to this list also. One year 
from now I intend to send this same message yet again. 

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word. 
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.


Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in Nature 
or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous prediction, after all 
psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of people with no training have 
managed to observe it, or claim they have. And I am sure the good people at 
Nature and Science would want to say something about this very important and 
obvious part of our natural world if they could, but I predict they will be 
unable to find anything
interesting to say about it.

You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an eight's 
grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the Higgs boson with 
no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN in Switzerland cannot. 
Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true
because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me about it in a 
dream.

PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from 
today.

John K Clark




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A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one word.
One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.



One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at
the beginning of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list
about the paranormal and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake
and other forms of infantile junk science has come up here I thought
I'd send it to this list also. One year from now I intend to send this
same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change
one word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.


Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous prediction,
after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of people with no
training have managed to observe it, or claim they have. And I am sure the
good people at Nature and Science would want to say something about this
very important and obvious part of our natural world if they could, but I
predict they will be unable to find anything
interesting to say about it.

You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with
an eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe
the Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at
CERN in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is
true
because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me about it in
a dream.

PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year
from today.

John K Clark

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Bruno Marchal]

On 12 Jan 2015, at 23:07, meekerdb wrote:


On 1/2/2015 2:45 PM, Jason Resch wrote:



On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 2:40 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com  
wrote:


On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be  
wrote:


 Define telepathy, telekinesis, and remote viewing.

No. Buy a dictionary, if you're still confused after that I'll try  
to help you out but first you'll need to define define.



If you continued with the other steps of the universal dovetailer  
argument, you would realize some of these questions aren't so cut  
and dry.


If your brain has many instantiations in many universes/realities/ 
mathematical structures, then your consciousness is reviewing these  
remote locations (and may next find itself in such a remote  
location).



 So we don't have a bet,

I can't say I'm surprised, I've been offering this bet at the  
beginning of the year for over a decade but even the staunchest  
believer in the paranormal always chickens out when asked to put  
his money where his mouth is.


The intention of your bet is unclear. Is it to show that close- 
minded scientists who have a history of deciding not to even review  
a paper that disagrees with their presuppositions will continue to  
decide not even to review papers that disagree with their  
presuppositions?  Even if one strongly believed a surprising result  
would be made in psi, the prejudice shown by leading journals on  
the matter would still make such a debt unlikely to pay off.


Your insistence that scientists open with welcome arms ground- 
shaking discoveries is disproved by the case of Hugh Everett, who  
was met with ridicule and (worse) inattention.


A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its  
opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its  
opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is  
familiar with it. -- Max Planck


First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight  
you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi


Einstein was never recognized with a Nobel prize for his discovery  
of relativity, the council thought his discovery was too  
controversial.





 BTW, why sending this to the list. I have never heard people  
defending para-psy.


Don't you remember Craig Weinberg? And my attack on parapsychology  
upset you so much you called me a bigot.


parapsychology
1. the branch of psychology that deals with the investigation of  
purportedly psychic phenomena, as clairvoyance, extrasensory  
perception, telepathy, and the like.


psychic
1. of or relating to the human soul or mind; mental (opposed to  
physical).

2. Psychology. pertaining to or noting mental phenomena.
3. outside of natural or scientific knowledge; spiritual.
4. of or relating to some apparently nonphysical force or agency:  
psychic research; psychic phenomena.
5. sensitive to influences or forces of a nonphysical or  
supernatural nature.


Much of what is discussed on this list concerns ontologies where  
the mental exists beyond the physical, or is the foundation of the  
physical, and so would be a psychic and accordingly a  
parapsychological phenomenon.



 most scienstist practice argument of authority, given that they  
believe or not a paper just by the title of a journal


Most scientists believe in reputation and in induction, so even if  
they have not personally duplicated the  exparament they think that  
the numbers published in Science or Nature or Physical Review  
Letters are probably correct.


A policy to only publish things that are well established serves to  
protect the reputation of the journal as a reliable source for  
probably valid results, but it serves to slow down the rate of  
progress by hiding from view controversial but nonetheless correct  
ideas.


But things would be quite different if experimental results were  
printed on a processed dead tree in a fifth rate science journal  
that nobody has ever heard of, or worse just data on a website run  
by somebody nobody has heard of, or if they have wished they  
hadn't. I know how to type too, I could easily start a website  
saying perpetual motion is possible and even provide results of  
experiments that I say I  have performed supporting my claim. It  
wouldn't take me 20 minutes.


I might add that with the exception of religion, a closely related  
delusion, no area of human activity has been as riddled with as  
much fraud as psi or ESP or spiritualism or whatever buzzword is in  
fashion today for that drivel.


 the interesting question is what is the nature of God: a thing, a  
person, a mathematical reality, etc.


It is none of those things, God is a 3 letter ASCII sequence with  
the binary value of 01000111 0110 01100100. And I have to  
disagree with you, I don't find that very interesting.


 atheists are ally to the institutionalized religion.

And up is down and black is white and atheism is just a slight  
variation of Christianity.


Atheists almost universally 

Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[meekerdb]

On 1/2/2015 2:45 PM, Jason Resch wrote:



On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 2:40 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com 
mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:



On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:

 Define telepathy, telekinesis, and remote viewing.


No. Buy a dictionary, if you're still confused after that I'll try to help 
you out
but first you'll need to define define.


If you continued with the other steps of the universal dovetailer argument, you would 
realize some of these questions aren't so cut and dry.


If your brain has many instantiations in many universes/realities/mathematical 
structures, then your consciousness is reviewing these remote locations (and may next 
find itself in such a remote location).


 So we don't have a bet,

I can't say I'm surprised, I've been offering this bet at the beginning of 
the year
for over a decade but even the staunchest believer in the paranormal always 
chickens
out when asked to put his money where his mouth is.


The intention of your bet is unclear. Is it to show that close-minded scientists who 
have a history of deciding not to even review a paper that disagrees with their 
presuppositions will continue to decide not even to review papers that disagree with 
their presuppositions? Even if one strongly believed a surprising result would be made 
in psi, the prejudice shown by leading journals on the matter would still make such a 
debt unlikely to pay off.


Your insistence that scientists open with welcome arms ground-shaking discoveries is 
disproved by the case of Hugh Everett, who was met with ridicule and (worse) inattention.


A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see 
the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows 
up that is familiar with it. -- Max Planck


First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- 
Mahatma Gandhi
Einstein was never recognized with a Nobel prize for his discovery of relativity, the 
council thought his discovery was too controversial.





 BTW, why sending this to the list. I have never heard people 
defending para-psy.


Don't you remember Craig Weinberg? And my attack on parapsychology upset 
you so much
you called me a bigot.


parapsychology
1. the branch of psychology that deals with the investigation of purportedly *psychic 
phenomena*, as clairvoyance, extrasensory perception, telepathy, and the like.


psychic
1. of or relating to the human soul or mind; mental (opposed to physical).
2. Psychology. pertaining to or noting mental phenomena.
3. outside of natural or scientific knowledge; spiritual.
4. of or relating to some apparently nonphysical force or agency: psychic research; 
psychic phenomena.

5. sensitive to influences or forces of a nonphysical or supernatural nature.

Much of what is discussed on this list concerns ontologies where the mental exists 
beyond the physical, or is the foundation of the physical, and so would be a psychic 
and accordingly a parapsychological phenomenon.



 most scienstist practice argument of authority, given that they 
believe or not a paper just by
the title of a journal


Most scientists believe in reputation and in induction, so even if they 
have not
personally duplicated the  exparament they think that the numbers published 
in
Science or Nature or Physical Review Letters are probably correct.


A policy to only publish things that are well established serves to protect the 
reputation of the journal as a reliable source for probably valid results, but it serves 
to slow down the rate of progress by hiding from view controversial but nonetheless 
correct ideas.


But things would be quite different if experimental results were printed on 
a
processed dead tree in a fifth rate science journal that nobody has ever 
heard of,
or worse just data on a website run by somebody nobody has heard of, or if 
they have
wished they hadn't. I know how to type too, I could easily start a website 
saying
perpetual motion is possible and even provide results of experiments that I say I 
have performed supporting my claim. It wouldn't take me 20 minutes.


I might add that with the exception of religion, a closely related 
delusion, no area
of human activity has been as riddled with as much fraud as psi or ESP or
spiritualism or whatever buzzword is in fashion today for that drivel.

 the interesting question is what is the nature of God: a thing, a 
person, a mathematical
reality, etc.


It is none of those things, God is a 3 letter ASCII sequence with the 
binary value
of 01000111 0110 01100100. And I have to disagree with you, I don't 
find that
very interesting.

 atheists are ally to the institutionalized religion.


And up is down and black is 

Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[zibblequibble]

On Sunday, January 4, 2015 10:03:25 PM UTC, John Clark wrote:

 On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 Bruno Marchal mar...@ulb.ac.be javascript: wrote:

  By your post, it seems you do not believe in a primary biological 
 reality or even a chemical universe. 


 I don't know, give me some examples of a primary biological reality and  
 a chemical universe and I'll be able to tell you if I believe in them or 
 not. And remember I don't want definitions I want examples. 

  It seems that you believe that chemistry can be reduced conceptually to 
 physics. 


 Obviously. 
  

  This means that we don't need to assume some vital or chemical 
 principles. 


 As a practical matter when you get to the level of chemistry and biology 
 you do have to assume some approximations and statistical laws; even in 
 physics we'd be lost without statistical ideas like pressure and 
 temperature.

  Physical entities and physical laws can explain the chemical laws, 
 which can explain the biological laws. 


 Obviously. 
  

 Here the physical entities and laws are primary and the chemical and 
 biological are not.


 I would agree that physical laws come before biological laws in a 
 objective chain of cause and effect, but primary means highest rank in 
 importance and so there is some subjectivity thrown into the mix, and so I 
 wouldn't  necessarily agree that the laws of physics are more important 
 than the laws of chemistry or biology.

   My question can be put in this way: do you think we necessarily need to 
 assume physical entities, or are you open to the idea that the physical 
 itself can be reduced to another field (like perhaps number theory, or 
 mathematics, or some abstract psychology, or theology, of computer science, 
 etc.)?


 Sure I'm open to the idea, but as to which came first physics or 
 mathematics I don't know. I am a physics agnostic, but as I understand it 
 you are a atheist.  

  The fact that a book in physics use mathematical notions does not imply 
 that the mathematical notions are physical.


 True, but it does not imply that the mathematics is not physical.either.

  Book on gastronomy use english does not make the use of english an 
 object of gastronomy.


 English can describe food but food came before English. You seem to be 
 implying that mathematics is just a language that can describe physics. I 
 don't know if that's true but if it is then physics came before mathematics.

   John K Clark


yester better years days g9ne by, I would hace waved and cheered rriom the 
sidelnes any statement such as that. but in recent times I've become 
superstitious as fuck

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Bruno Marchal]

On 04 Jan 2015, at 05:33, John Clark wrote:

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be  
wrote:


 Are only 0, s(0), s(s(0)), ... primary? or should we also insist  
that addition and multiplication are primary.


You tell me, you're the one who asked Do you believe in a PRIMARY  
physical universe?; I can't answer your question if even you don't  
know what the question is.


 That needs to be clarified

Then do so, and do it  before you ask me again if I believe  in a  
primary physical universe.


By your post, it seems you do not believe in a primary biological  
reality or even a chemical universe. It seems that you believe that  
chemistry can be reduced conceptually to physics.
This means that we don't need to assume some vital or chemical  
principles. Physical entities and physical laws can explain the  
chemical laws, which can explain the biological laws.
Here the physical entities and laws are primary and the chemical and  
biological are not.


My question can be put in this way: do you think we necessarily need  
to assume physical entities, or are you open to the idea that the  
physical itself can be reduced to another field (like perhaps number  
theory, or mathematics, or some abstract psychology, or theology, of  
computer science, etc.)?





  Personnally I don't see how a complex numbers, or an integer can  
be considered physical at all.  By physical universe, I mean what is  
described in the book of physics.


Both integers and complex numbers are described in physics books,  
you can't do physics without them.



The fact that a book in physics use mathematical notions does not  
imply that the mathematical notions are physical.


Book on gastronomy use english does not make the use of english an  
object of gastronomy.



Bruno




  John K Clark








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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:

 By your post, it seems you do not believe in a primary biological reality
 or even a chemical universe.


I don't know, give me some examples of a primary biological reality and
a chemical universe and I'll be able to tell you if I believe in them or
not. And remember I don't want definitions I want examples.

 It seems that you believe that chemistry can be reduced conceptually to
 physics.


Obviously.


  This means that we don't need to assume some vital or chemical
 principles.


As a practical matter when you get to the level of chemistry and biology
you do have to assume some approximations and statistical laws; even in
physics we'd be lost without statistical ideas like pressure and
temperature.

  Physical entities and physical laws can explain the chemical laws, which
 can explain the biological laws.


Obviously.


 Here the physical entities and laws are primary and the chemical and
 biological are not.


I would agree that physical laws come before biological laws in a objective
chain of cause and effect, but primary means highest rank in importance
and so there is some subjectivity thrown into the mix, and so I wouldn't
necessarily agree that the laws of physics are more important than the laws
of chemistry or biology.

  My question can be put in this way: do you think we necessarily need to
 assume physical entities, or are you open to the idea that the physical
 itself can be reduced to another field (like perhaps number theory, or
 mathematics, or some abstract psychology, or theology, of computer science,
 etc.)?


Sure I'm open to the idea, but as to which came first physics or
mathematics I don't know. I am a physics agnostic, but as I understand it
you are a atheist.

 The fact that a book in physics use mathematical notions does not imply
 that the mathematical notions are physical.


True, but it does not imply that the mathematics is not physical.either.

 Book on gastronomy use english does not make the use of english an object
 of gastronomy.


English can describe food but food came before English. You seem to be
implying that mathematics is just a language that can describe physics. I
don't know if that's true but if it is then physics came before mathematics.

  John K Clark

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Bruno Marchal]

On 02 Jan 2015, at 21:40, John Clark wrote:



On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be  
wrote:


 Define telepathy, telekinesis, and remote viewing.

No. Buy a dictionary, if you're still confused after that I'll try  
to help you out but first you'll need to define define.


 So we don't have a bet,

I can't say I'm surprised, I've been offering this bet at the  
beginning of the year for over a decade but even the staunchest  
believer in the paranormal always chickens out when asked to put his  
money where his mouth is.


It is just ridiculous. I am pretty sure that no journals will publish  
a confirmation of string theory, but this does not imply that string  
theory is not serious, nor false.


And the frontier of discipline are not an absolute, like the dream  
lucid phenomenon exemplified.






 BTW, why sending this to the list. I have never heard people  
defending para-psy.


Don't you remember Craig Weinberg? And my attack on parapsychology  
upset you so much you called me a bigot.


It was the non validity of your type of argumentation that might have  
upset me.

Here, you confuse ~[]p with []~p.





 most scienstist practice argument of authority, given that they  
believe or not a paper just by the title of a journal


Most scientists believe in reputation and in induction, so even if  
they have not personally duplicated the  exparament they think that  
the numbers published in Science or Nature or Physical Review  
Letters are probably correct. But things would be quite different if  
experimental results were printed on a processed dead tree in a  
fifth rate science journal that nobody has ever heard of, or worse  
just data on a website run by somebody nobody has heard of, or if  
they have wished they hadn't. I know how to type too, I could easily  
start a website saying perpetual motion is possible and even provide  
results of experiments that I say I  have performed supporting my  
claim. It wouldn't take me 20 minutes.


I might add that with the exception of religion, a closely related  
delusion, no area of human activity has been as riddled with as much  
fraud as psi or ESP or spiritualism or whatever buzzword is in  
fashion today for that drivel.


So why even talk about them? especially that nobody defend the  
paranormal in this list. Even Craig did not, as far as I remember. He  
might use paranormal in his website, to illustrate some of his point,  
but here we use only logic and reason.






 the interesting question is what is the nature of God: a thing, a  
person, a mathematical reality, etc.


It is none of those things, God is a 3 letter ASCII sequence with  
the binary value of 01000111 0110 01100100. And I have to  
disagree with you, I don't find that very interesting.


If you quoted the whole paragraph, it is clear that one have adopted  
the original general definition, where God is, by definition, the  
thing which makes you conscious in a(n) apparent universe.







 atheists are ally to the institutionalized religion.

And up is down and black is white and atheism is just a slight  
variation of Christianity.


But it is trivial that you illustrate this very well, by being unable  
to change your notion of God, and get stuck on the fairy tale notion,  
like the fundamentalist christians.

And then atheists have the same faith in material substances.

I have also clearly realize that you are really unaware of Plato, and  
its rational attempt to understand the nature of reality.








 You really seem to act that a bishop of religious atheism,

 Wow, calling a guy known for disliking religion religious, never  
heard that one before, at least I never heard it before I was 12.



Then explain me why you defend the idea that God is what the  
fundamentalist christian talk about, and nothing else.


Why don't you mock people for believing in Earth? An infinite flat  
surface is surely a stupid idea.


No, for Earth, you have no problem to accept that the notion evolve.  
Earth is flat. Oh... no, it is round. OK. Why not: God is an  
omniscient person. Oh no God is not omniscient and might be not a  
person. Etc.









  Do you believe in a PRIMARY physical universe? Or are you  
agnostic on this?


I can't answer that until I understand the question. I know what you  
mean by primary, it's a brute fact, the end of a long chain of  
why? questions,


OK. It is what we think need to be assume. With computationalism, we  
know today that we don't need to assume more than the RA axioms,  
making numbers and their basic laws primary.



but I'm a little fuzzy about physical universe, and I don't want  
definitions I want examples.


The key was primary. You can replace universe by space-time,  
concrete solution of Einstein equation, corrected by some quantum  
precision.




Are only nouns part of the physical universe or are adjectives and  
adverbs part of it too?


It is not quite relevant.
Are only 0, s(0), s(s(0)), 

Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Bruno Marchal]

On 03 Jan 2015, at 05:23, Jason Resch wrote:



The selective replies to my post tells me all I need to know.



Good point. John Clark systematically ignores the arguments, and his  
strategy consists in mocking excerpts taken out of context.


Bruno




Jason

On Friday, January 2, 2015, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com  
wrote:


  So we don't have a bet,


  I can't say I'm surprised, I've been offering this bet at the  
beginning of the year for over a decade but even the staunchest  
believer in the paranormal always chickens out when asked to put his  
money where his mouth is.


  The intention of your bet is unclear.

 My intention was to make $100 however Bruno won't take my bet, but  
you seem to be a big fan of paranormal crap so how about you?


 First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight  
you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi


 They laughed at Galileo, and they laughed at Bozo the clown too.  
Unfortunately there are more Bozos than Galileos. -- John K Clark



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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Bruno Marchal]

Thanks Kim!

On 03 Jan 2015, at 01:14, Kim Jones wrote:

A brilliant passage by Bruno recently - may have been rendered a bit  
more clearly by the following redaction:



Well, I have discussed this on FB in different groups. I got  
confirmation that strong atheists always use insults, jokes and  
mockery instead of arguing something of substance. Not just at me,  
but toward anyone guilty of nothing more than presenting the  
difficulties of making atheism scientific and avoiding contamination  
by pseudo-religious bigotry.


Many atheists have understood that they are not bigoted atheists,  
but merely agnostic. As atheism is sometimes defined as agnostic I  
add that there is no problem with that larger definition (but I  
suspect this is just a trick by the atheists to bring agnostics into  
their camp).


It took time but eventually mathematicians accepted 0 as a number.  
It simplifies everything to accept a general definition asserting  
that God is at the origin of consciousness and matter, or, the  
appearance of matter. That definition has the advantage of being  
acceptable to religious people of quite different traditions,  
together with the non-religious as well.


The interesting question then becomes what is the nature of God: a  
thing, a person, a mathematical reality etc?


Many atheists believe in a primary universe. What this inescapably  
means is that they believe God = Primary Universe, and conceive of  
it usually as a thing.


This is already theology.

Translation:  We CLAIM something about the personal God:

there are 0 personal gods

They also assert some things about the NATURE OF God: that God is  
non-personal AND it is a physical thing (which in addition does not  
exist...)


This way of talking is usual enough in science! All you need say is  
that ... theology must be confined to the irrational, and confirms  
that atheists are allied to the institutionalized religions.


Strong atheism comports the following religious beliefs:

1) the belief that there is no personal God

2) the belief in metaphysical naturalism: the universe is a god  
(personal or not, but usually not personal). That was Einstein's  
position, although he may have changed his mind near the end of his  
life, thanks to Gödel. But Gödel was closer to me in defending the  
(trivial) fact that we can do theology with a scientific attitude.


He provided a proof of the existence of God to illustrate that fact.

I guess you know of it: what is your opinion of Gödel's proof of the  
existence of God? Note that little errors have been found, and  
corrected (by Scott, I think). Of course this does not prove the  
existence of God, because he used the modal logic S5 in a context  
where Mechanism would impose S4Grz1. Can we construct the proof of  
God in S4Grz1? Open problem (at least for me).


You really seem to act like a bishop of religious atheism, although  
your position on the ontological status of the physical universe  
remains unclear. Do you believe in a PRIMARY physical universe? Or  
are you agnostic on this?


Bruno


Kim Jones B. Mus. GDTL

Email:   kimjo...@ozemail.com.au
 kmjco...@icloud.com
Mobile: 0450 963 719
Phone:  02 93894239
Web: http://www.eportfolio.kmjcommp.com


I'm not saying there aren't a lot of dangerous people out there. I  
am saying a lot of them are in government - Russell Brand





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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:

 Are only nouns part of the physical universe or are adjectives and
 adverbs part of it too?


  It is not quite relevant.


Not quite relevant?! Is fast and a racing car both part of the physical
universe? Is a brain and a mind both part of the physical universe?  I
can't think of anything more relevant.


  Are only 0, s(0), s(s(0)), ... primary? or should we also insist that
 addition and multiplication are primary.


You tell me, you're the one who asked Do you believe in a PRIMARY physical
universe?; I can't answer your question if even you don't know what the
question is.

 That needs to be clarified


Then do so, and do it  before you ask me again if I believe  in a primary
physical universe.

 Are quarks or superstrings part of the physical universe? Is information
 part of the physical universe? Are thoughts part of the  physical universe?
 Are the integers part of the physical universe? What about the Real Numbers
 or Complex Numbers? And if all these things are part of the physical
 universe you need to give me at least one example of something that isn't.


  You don't answer the question.


Of course I didn't answer the question, I can't do so because I don't
understand what the question is, and now you've admitted that you don't
understand your question either.

  Personnally I don't see how a complex numbers, or an integer can be
 considered physical at all.  By physical universe, I mean what is described
 in the book of physics.


Both integers and complex numbers are described in physics books, you can't
do physics without them.

  John K Clark

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Bruno Marchal]

On 01 Jan 2015, at 17:31, John Clark wrote:


On Thu, Jan 1, 2015  Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:

 It cannot happen, because if it happens you will say that it is no  
more parapsy.


I most certainly will not say that! I'm not talking about finding  
evidence to explain how the paranormal works I'm talking about  
something more basic, finding evidence that there is something that  
needs explaining. So in that spirit let me offer you a little bet,  
if Science or Nature or Physical Review Letters reports evidence  
that telepathy or telekinesis or clairvoyance or remote-viewing  
exists before January 1 2016, and I don't care if they have a  
explanation for why this strange physical phenomenon exists or not,  
I will give you $1000,  if they don't print anything like that you  
only have to give me $100. Come on it's easy money, OK maybe  
scientists aren't as smart as Joe Blow the bartender who does  
parapsychology research in his spare time but their bound to catch  
on eventually that it's real and I'm giving you 10 to 1 odds, so put  
your money where your mouth is.  So do we have a bet?



Define telepathy, telekinesis, and remote viewing. Some insist that  
telepathy is instantaneous: in which case I agree with you, the  
probability that we find non-local action is very low.
Telekinesis exists trivially. I use it each morning, just to put my  
clothe on and make coffee. We still don't have an explanation, given  
the UDA reasoning, we can't use the identity thesis.


So we don't have a bet, because you might formulate your bet in a way  
making it like para-psy is equivalent with finding a square with three  
sides.





 A bit like when you say that intelligence is when it is done by  
human, and is no more when done by machine (which makes the  
prediction of intelligent machine virtually senseless.


I don't say that, the anti-AI/human-apologists do.


That is what I meant. I alluded to what you quoted to be more precise.





 Well perhaps you did not do that prediction for enough time).

Exactly 2 years ago somebody on this list said almost exactly the  
same thing, this is what I said back then:


Nothing gets their [physicists] blood moving like a experimental  
result they can't explain. If psi was real physicists would love it,  
if psi was real it would have been proven to everybody's  
satisfaction in the 17th century,  if psi was real high school kids  
would be repeating the 300 year old experiments in their science  
fair projects, if psi was real I personally would love it too, in  
fact it's hard to imagine anyone not loving something as cool as  
psi. But unfortunately psi is not real. [...] you don't need a 10  
billion dollar particle accelerator to investigate this stuff, if  
these simple easy experiments were valid then today the paranormal  
would not be controversial because its existence would have been  
proven to everyone's satisfaction way back in the time of Newton if  
not earlier.


Well, then we are OK, and I don't take the bet.

BTW, why sending this to the list. I have never heard people defending  
para-psy.
And you don't comment about lucid dreaming made scientific by parapsy,  
but accepted when redone by psy, which illustrated that most  
scienstist practice argument of authority, given that they believe or  
not a paper just by the title of a journal (which I can understand as  
there are many paper to review, and we must make choice: but that is  
not serious).






 Hmm... I predict that you will not move to the step 4 of the UDA(*)

 (*) UDA = Universal Dovetailer Argument, in case you forgot.

Thank you I had forgotten, I was about to ask if the Universal Dance  
Association said that step 4 was a pirouette or a sissonne.


That is not an argument, and the same joke repeated a lot is not more  
much funny, to be honest. Look like 2015 is already similar to 2014.






 I am not astonished. Only the pseudo-religious people can't doubt  
their own conviction


 Wow, calling a guy known for disliking religion religious, never  
heard that one before, at least I never heard it before I was 12.


I have already answered this too.





 I think you are bigot atheists

And happy new year to you too.


Well, I discuss this on facebook in different groups. I got  
confirmation that strong-atheists always use insult, joke, mockery  
instead of arguing. Not just on me, but on any people just presenting  
the difficulties of making atheism scientific and not bigot (pseudo- 
religious).


Many atheists understood that they were not bigot atheists, but just  
agnostic. As atheism is sometimes defined as agnostic I add that there  
is no problem with that larger definition (but it is just a trick to  
make them in their camp, I think).


It took time but eventually mathematician have accepted 0 as a number,  
and it simplifies to accept the general definition asserting that God  
is the thing at the origin of consciousness and matter or appearance  
of 

Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Jason Resch]

On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 2:40 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:


 On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:

  Define telepathy, telekinesis, and remote viewing.


 No. Buy a dictionary, if you're still confused after that I'll try to help
 you out but first you'll need to define define.


If you continued with the other steps of the universal dovetailer argument,
you would realize some of these questions aren't so cut and dry.

If your brain has many instantiations in many
universes/realities/mathematical structures, then your consciousness is
reviewing these remote locations (and may next find itself in such a remote
location).



  So we don't have a bet,


 I can't say I'm surprised, I've been offering this bet at the beginning of
 the year for over a decade but even the staunchest believer in the
 paranormal always chickens out when asked to put his money where his mouth
 is.


The intention of your bet is unclear. Is it to show that close-minded
scientists who have a history of deciding not to even review a paper that
disagrees with their presuppositions will continue to decide not even to
review papers that disagree with their presuppositions?  Even if one
strongly believed a surprising result would be made in psi,
the prejudice shown by leading journals on the matter would still make such
a debt unlikely to pay off.

Your insistence that scientists open with welcome arms ground-shaking
discoveries is disproved by the case of Hugh Everett, who was met with
ridicule and (worse) inattention.

A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and
making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die,
and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. -- Max Planck

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then
you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

Einstein was never recognized with a Nobel prize for his discovery of
relativity, the council thought his discovery was too controversial.




  BTW, why sending this to the list. I have never heard people defending
 para-psy.


 Don't you remember Craig Weinberg? And my attack on parapsychology upset
 you so much you called me a bigot.


parapsychology
1. the branch of psychology that deals with the investigation of
purportedly *psychic phenomena*, as clairvoyance, extrasensory perception,
telepathy, and the like.

psychic
1. of or relating to the human soul or mind; mental (opposed to physical).
2. Psychology. pertaining to or noting mental phenomena.
3. outside of natural or scientific knowledge; spiritual.
4. of or relating to some apparently nonphysical force or agency: psychic
research; psychic phenomena.
5. sensitive to influences or forces of a nonphysical or supernatural
nature.

Much of what is discussed on this list concerns ontologies where the mental
exists beyond the physical, or is the foundation of the physical, and so
would be a psychic and accordingly a parapsychological phenomenon.



  most scienstist practice argument of authority, given that they believe
 or not a paper just by the title of a journal


 Most scientists believe in reputation and in induction, so even if they
 have not personally duplicated the  exparament they think that the numbers
 published in Science or Nature or Physical Review Letters are probably
 correct.


A policy to only publish things that are well established serves to protect
the reputation of the journal as a reliable source for probably valid
results, but it serves to slow down the rate of progress by hiding from
view controversial but nonetheless correct ideas.


 But things would be quite different if experimental results were printed
 on a processed dead tree in a fifth rate science journal that nobody has
 ever heard of, or worse just data on a website run by somebody nobody has
 heard of, or if they have wished they hadn't. I know how to type too, I
 could easily start a website saying perpetual motion is possible and even
 provide results of experiments that I say I  have performed supporting my
 claim. It wouldn't take me 20 minutes.

 I might add that with the exception of religion, a closely related
 delusion, no area of human activity has been as riddled with as much fraud
 as psi or ESP or spiritualism or whatever buzzword is in fashion today for
 that drivel.

  the interesting question is what is the nature of God: a thing, a
 person, a mathematical reality, etc.


 It is none of those things, God is a 3 letter ASCII sequence with the
 binary value of 01000111 0110 01100100. And I have to disagree with
 you, I don't find that very interesting.

  atheists are ally to the institutionalized religion.


 And up is down and black is white and atheism is just a slight variation
 of Christianity.


Atheists almost universally use the Christian's conception of God, as the
one they deny. Bruno rightly points out that they never go so far as to
deny all Gods, they just substitute one basis for 

Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:

 Define telepathy, telekinesis, and remote viewing.


No. Buy a dictionary, if you're still confused after that I'll try to help
you out but first you'll need to define define.

 So we don't have a bet,


I can't say I'm surprised, I've been offering this bet at the beginning of
the year for over a decade but even the staunchest believer in the
paranormal always chickens out when asked to put his money where his mouth
is.

 BTW, why sending this to the list. I have never heard people defending
 para-psy.


Don't you remember Craig Weinberg? And my attack on parapsychology upset
you so much you called me a bigot.

 most scienstist practice argument of authority, given that they believe
 or not a paper just by the title of a journal


Most scientists believe in reputation and in induction, so even if they
have not personally duplicated the  exparament they think that the numbers
published in Science or Nature or Physical Review Letters are probably
correct. But things would be quite different if experimental results were
printed on a processed dead tree in a fifth rate science journal that
nobody has ever heard of, or worse just data on a website run by somebody
nobody has heard of, or if they have wished they hadn't. I know how to type
too, I could easily start a website saying perpetual motion is possible and
even provide results of experiments that I say I  have performed supporting
my claim. It wouldn't take me 20 minutes.

I might add that with the exception of religion, a closely related
delusion, no area of human activity has been as riddled with as much fraud
as psi or ESP or spiritualism or whatever buzzword is in fashion today for
that drivel.

 the interesting question is what is the nature of God: a thing, a person,
 a mathematical reality, etc.


It is none of those things, God is a 3 letter ASCII sequence with the
binary value of 01000111 0110 01100100. And I have to disagree with
you, I don't find that very interesting.

 atheists are ally to the institutionalized religion.


And up is down and black is white and atheism is just a slight variation of
Christianity.

 You really seem to act that a bishop of religious atheism,


 Wow, calling a guy known for disliking religion religious, never heard
that one before, at least I never heard it before I was 12.

  Do you believe in a PRIMARY physical universe? Or are you agnostic on
 this?


I can't answer that until I understand the question. I know what you mean
by primary, it's a brute fact, the end of a long chain of why?
questions, but I'm a little fuzzy about physical universe, and I don't
want definitions I want examples. Are only nouns part of the physical
universe or are adjectives and adverbs part of it too?  Are quarks or
superstrings part of the physical universe? Is information part of the
physical universe? Are thoughts part of the  physical universe? Are the
integers part of the physical universe? What about the Real Numbers or
Complex Numbers? And if all these things are part of the physical universe
you need to give me at least one example of something that isn't.

  John K Clark

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Kim Jones]

A brilliant passage by Bruno recently - may have been rendered a bit more 
clearly by the following redaction: 


Well, I have discussed this on FB in different groups. I got confirmation that 
strong atheists always use insults, jokes and mockery instead of arguing 
something of substance. Not just at me, but toward anyone guilty of nothing 
more than presenting the difficulties of making atheism scientific and avoiding 
contamination by pseudo-religious bigotry.

Many atheists have understood that they are not bigoted atheists, but merely 
agnostic. As atheism is sometimes defined as agnostic I add that there is no 
problem with that larger definition (but I suspect this is just a trick by the 
atheists to bring agnostics into their camp).

It took time but eventually mathematicians accepted 0 as a number. It 
simplifies everything to accept a general definition asserting that God is at 
the origin of consciousness and matter, or, the appearance of matter. That 
definition has the advantage of being acceptable to religious people of quite 
different traditions, together with the non-religious as well. 

The interesting question then becomes what is the nature of God: a thing, a 
person, a mathematical reality etc? 

Many atheists believe in a primary universe. What this inescapably means is 
that they believe God = Primary Universe, and conceive of it usually as a 
thing. 

This is already theology. 

Translation:  We CLAIM something about the personal God: 

there are 0 personal gods

They also assert some things about the NATURE OF God: that God is non-personal 
AND it is a physical thing (which in addition does not exist...)

This way of talking is usual enough in science! All you need say is that ... 
theology must be confined to the irrational, and confirms that atheists are 
allied to the institutionalized religions.

Strong atheism comports the following religious beliefs: 

1) the belief that there is no personal God

2) the belief in metaphysical naturalism: the universe is a god (personal or 
not, but usually not personal). That was Einstein's position, although he may 
have changed his mind near the end of his life, thanks to Gödel. But Gödel was 
closer to me in defending the (trivial) fact that we can do theology with a 
scientific attitude. 

He provided a proof of the existence of God to illustrate that fact.

I guess you know of it: what is your opinion of Gödel's proof of the existence 
of God? Note that little errors have been found, and corrected (by Scott, I 
think). Of course this does not prove the existence of God, because he used the 
modal logic S5 in a context where Mechanism would impose S4Grz1. Can we 
construct the proof of God in S4Grz1? Open problem (at least for me).

You really seem to act like a bishop of religious atheism, although your 
position on the ontological status of the physical universe remains unclear. Do 
you believe in a PRIMARY physical universe? Or are you agnostic on this?

Bruno


Kim Jones B. Mus. GDTL

Email:   kimjo...@ozemail.com.au
 kmjco...@icloud.com
Mobile: 0450 963 719
Phone:  02 93894239
Web: http://www.eportfolio.kmjcommp.com


I'm not saying there aren't a lot of dangerous people out there. I am saying a 
lot of them are in government - Russell Brand

 

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Jason Resch]

The selective replies to my post tells me all I need to know.

Jason

On Friday, January 2, 2015, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:

  So we don't have a bet,


  I can't say I'm surprised, I've been offering this bet at the
beginning of the year for over a decade but even the staunchest believer in
the paranormal always chickens out when asked to put his money where his
mouth is.

  The intention of your bet is unclear.

 My intention was to make $100 however Bruno won't take my bet, but you
seem to be a big fan of paranormal crap so how about you?

 First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you,
then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

 They laughed at Galileo, and they laughed at Bozo the clown too.
Unfortunately there are more Bozos than Galileos. -- John K Clark


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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:


  So we don't have a bet,


  I can't say I'm surprised, I've been offering this bet at the
 beginning of the year for over a decade but even the staunchest believer in
 the paranormal always chickens out when asked to put his money where his
 mouth is.


  The intention of your bet is unclear.


My intention was to make $100 however Bruno won't take my bet, but you seem
to be a big fan of paranormal crap so how about you?

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then
 you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi


They laughed at Galileo, and they laughed at Bozo the clown too.
Unfortunately there are more Bozos than Galileos. -- John K Clark

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Bruno Marchal]

On 31 Dec 2014, at 17:42, John Clark wrote:

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change  
one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change  
one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the
beginning of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list  
about

the paranormal and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake and
other forms of infantile junk science has come up here I thought I'd
send it to this list also. One year from now I intend to send this  
same

message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change  
one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change  
one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change  
one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change  
one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change  
one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change  
one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change  
one

word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.


Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT  
appear in

Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they  
have.

And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
say something about this very important and obvious part of our  
natural
world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find  
anything

interesting to say about it.

You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an
eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at  
CERN
in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is  
true

because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
about it in a dream.

PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one  
year from

today.


It cannot happen, because if it happens you will say that it is no  
more parapsy. A bit like when you say that intelligence is when it  
is done by human, and is no more when done by machine (which makes the  
prediction of intelligent machine virtually senseless).


An example of this is given by lucid dreaming. This was discovered and  
studied by mystic tibetan, hinduists, and well discussed by modern  
paraphychologist, and eventually confirmed experimentally by a  
parpsychologist (Hearne). Of course the scientific community has  
always throw this in the bag of the crackpotery ... until it has been  
rediscovered by LaBerge, who, thanks to his academic label, and thanks  
to the open mind of people like Jouvet and mostly Dement (who wrote  
papers on this) this belongs now to the mainstream brain and dream  
physiology.


Another case might be non-locality; predicted by numerous student in  
telepathy, and eventually proved to exist at least in the frame of  
single universe.(I dont believe in it, but that is besides the point:  
people believing in an unique universe have to believe it, and that  
makes your prediction wrong. Well perhaps you did not do that  
prediction for enough time).


Hmm... I predict that you will not move to the step 4 of the UDA(*)   
this year, making you the less rational person in this list, if not in  
the world (I met people having real difficulties of understanding, but  
rarerly at that step, and then they have genuine argument, leading to  
genuine discussion and genuine critics).


Also you seem to believe in 3p indeterminacy and spooky action at a  
distance, without any proof, just repeating what believers in single  
universe claims, and this despite you are open minded for the many- 
worlds, which does not help to believe that you are rational.


I am not astonished. Only the pseudo-religious people can't doubt  
their own conviction, and use mockery as argument. I think you are   
bigot atheists, incapable of agnosticism, even the methodological one.


Bruno

(*) UDA = Universal Dovetailer 

Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 8:55 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List 
everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote:

 I was a part of the Extropian list until what's her name, did a leftist
 purge of rightists and libertarians,


I'm not a rightist but I am a libertarian and I've never felt like I
couldn't speak my mind on the Extropian list.


  Natasha Moore, was her name.


And I never had a problem with Natasha, I always thought she seemed like a
nice person.

 Isn't the PEAR lab at Princeton now closed, or am I mistaken?


I sent the following message to the Extropian list on February 10  2007,
nothing has changed since then:

Speaking of BULLSHIT, on the front page of today's New York Times there is
an article about the ESP lab at Princeton (PEAR). It is closing down after
28 years. One of the chief witchdoctors there is quoted as saying something
that to my surprise I agree with completely: There is no reason to stay
and generate more of the same data. If people don't believe us after all
the results we've produced then they never will. More crappy data just
will not
help.

The article also describes the joy many at the university felt about its
demise and how none of the 700 full professors at Princeton had joined
PEAR, and how they never got published in first rate science journals, and
how they went to the National Enquirer of science journals The Society for
Scientific Exploration a rag that is never cited by anybody worth reading.
Besides ESP it also loves UFOs, spoon bending, and of course cold fusion.
But that august journal does not love everything, it prints attacks on
relativity and evolution.

  John K Clark
















 -Original Message-
 From: John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com
 To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Wed, Dec 31, 2014 11:42 am
 Subject: A paranormal prediction for the next year

  One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the
 beginning of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list about
 the paranormal and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake and
 other forms of infantile junk science has come up here I thought I'd
 send it to this list also. One year from now I intend to send this same
 message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 

 Happy New Year all.

 I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
 Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
 prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
 people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.
 And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
 say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural
 world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything
 interesting to say about it.

 You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an
 eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
 Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN
 in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true
 because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
 about it in a dream.

 PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from
 today.

 John K Clark



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 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
 Everything List group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
 email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com

Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

On Thu, Jan 1, 2015  Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:

 It cannot happen, because if it happens you will say that it is no more
 parapsy.


I most certainly will not say that! I'm not talking about finding evidence
to explain how the paranormal works I'm talking about something more basic,
finding evidence that there is something that needs explaining. So in that
spirit let me offer you a little bet, if Science or Nature or Physical
Review Letters reports evidence that telepathy or telekinesis or
clairvoyance or remote-viewing exists before January 1 2016, and I don't
care if they have a explanation for why this strange physical phenomenon
exists or not, I will give you $1000,  if they don't print anything like
that you only have to give me $100. Come on it's easy money, OK maybe
scientists aren't as smart as Joe Blow the bartender who does
parapsychology research in his spare time but their bound to catch on
eventually that it's real and I'm giving you 10 to 1 odds, so put your
money where your mouth is.  So do we have a bet?

 A bit like when you say that intelligence is when it is done by human,
 and is no more when done by machine (which makes the prediction of
 intelligent machine virtually senseless.


I don't say that, the anti-AI/human-apologists do.


  Well perhaps you did not do that prediction for enough time).


Exactly 2 years ago somebody on this list said almost exactly the same
thing, this is what I said back then:

Nothing gets their [physicists] blood moving like a experimental result
they can't explain. If psi was real physicists would love it, if psi was
real it would have been proven to everybody's satisfaction in the 17th
century,  if psi was real high school kids would be repeating the 300 year
old experiments in their science fair projects, if psi was real I
personally would love it too, in fact it's hard to imagine anyone not
loving something as cool as psi. But unfortunately psi is not real. [...]
you don't need a 10 billion dollar particle accelerator to investigate this
stuff, if these simple easy experiments were valid then today the
paranormal would not be controversial because its existence would have been
proven to everyone's satisfaction way back in the time of Newton if not
earlier.


  Hmm... I predict that you will not move to the step 4 of the UDA(*)



 (*) UDA = Universal Dovetailer Argument, in case you forgot.


Thank you I had forgotten, I was about to ask if the Universal Dance
Association said that step 4 was a pirouette or a sissonne.


  I am not astonished. Only the pseudo-religious people can't doubt their
 own conviction


 Wow, calling a guy known for disliking religion religious, never heard
that one before, at least I never heard it before I was 12.

 I think you are bigot atheists


And happy new year to you too.

  John K Clark

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

I was a part of the Extropian list until what's her name, did a leftist purge 
of rightists and libertarians, Natasha Moore, was her name. Soon after the 
Extropians ended, after reaching their goal. I predicted this would occur and 
whola! It happened. As far as paranormal stuff, you'd have to hire some bright 
people for the possibility of testing, rather than earnest volunteers, the few 
involved are always physicians. The rest are ghost busters like on TV. Isn't 
the PEAR lab at Princeton now closed, or am I mistaken?   



-Original Message-
From: John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com
To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, Dec 31, 2014 11:42 am
Subject: A paranormal prediction for the next year


One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the 
beginning of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list about
the paranormal and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake and 
other forms of infantile junk science has come up here I thought I'd 
send it to this list also. One year from now I intend to send this same
message yet again. 

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.


Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.
And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural
world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything
interesting to say about it.

You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an
eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN
in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true
because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
about it in a dream.

PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from
today.

John K Clark





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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[LizR]

On 2 January 2015 at 05:42, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:


 On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 , LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:

  You clearly have psychic powers, Mr Clark! Being able to reliably
 predict that no accidents or illnesses or anything else will prevent you
 from making the same prediction a year from now


 I made no such prediction. I said I had the intention to send a similar
 message to the list in exactly one year and that was not a prediction that
 was a fact. As to whether I will actually send such a message I don't know,
 only time will tell.

 I'm sorry maybe I should have put a smiley to indicate my poor attempt at
humour, which was (as you perhaps know) based on Raymond Smullyan's recipe
for immortality.

Which so far appears to be working ! :-)

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 , LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:

 You clearly have psychic powers, Mr Clark! Being able to reliably predict
 that no accidents or illnesses or anything else will prevent you from
 making the same prediction a year from now


I made no such prediction. I said I had the intention to send a similar
message to the list in exactly one year and that was not a prediction that
was a fact. As to whether I will actually send such a message I don't know,
only time will tell.

  John K Clark

-- 
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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Jason Resch]

From the article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/10/science/10princeton.html?pagewanted=all_r=0

Brenda Dunne, a developmental psychologist, has managed the laboratory
since it opened and has been a co-author of many of its study papers. “We
submitted our data for review to very good journals,” Ms. Dunne said, “but
no one would review it. We have been very open with our data. But how do
you get peer review when you don’t have peers?”

If the journals were honest, they would review the papers seriously
according to their data and results, rather than reject them out of hand
because the idea doesn't fit into their existing conceptual framework.
Whether or not psi exists, the labs experience with the leading journals
points to a dangerous attitude present in those academic journals which
will only stifle the rate of progress should some new and unexpected
phenomenon really exist.

Jason


On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 11:03 AM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:


 On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 8:55 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List 
 everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote:

  I was a part of the Extropian list until what's her name, did a leftist
 purge of rightists and libertarians,


 I'm not a rightist but I am a libertarian and I've never felt like I
 couldn't speak my mind on the Extropian list.


  Natasha Moore, was her name.


 And I never had a problem with Natasha, I always thought she seemed like a
 nice person.

  Isn't the PEAR lab at Princeton now closed, or am I mistaken?


 I sent the following message to the Extropian list on February 10  2007,
 nothing has changed since then:

 Speaking of BULLSHIT, on the front page of today's New York Times there
 is an article about the ESP lab at Princeton (PEAR). It is closing down
 after
 28 years. One of the chief witchdoctors there is quoted as saying
 something that to my surprise I agree with completely: There is no reason
 to stay and generate more of the same data. If people don't believe us
 after all the results we've produced then they never will. More crappy
 data just will not
 help.

 The article also describes the joy many at the university felt about its
 demise and how none of the 700 full professors at Princeton had joined
 PEAR, and how they never got published in first rate science journals, and
 how they went to the National Enquirer of science journals The Society for
 Scientific Exploration a rag that is never cited by anybody worth reading.
 Besides ESP it also loves UFOs, spoon bending, and of course cold fusion.
 But that august journal does not love everything, it prints attacks on
 relativity and evolution.

   John K Clark
















 -Original Message-
 From: John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com
 To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Wed, Dec 31, 2014 11:42 am
 Subject: A paranormal prediction for the next year

  One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the
 beginning of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list about
 the paranormal and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake and
 other forms of infantile junk science has come up here I thought I'd
 send it to this list also. One year from now I intend to send this same
 message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 

 Happy New Year all.

 I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
 Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
 prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
 people with no training have managed

Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 6:51 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:


  If the journals were honest, they would review the papers seriously
 according to their data and results,


So you think the reason the  journals Science, Nature and Physical Review
Letters  don't publish ESP stuff has all to do with sociology and nothing
to do with Science. I think they don't publish ESP crap because what they
contain conflicts with reality. On my side I have journals that have
published every major scientific discovery of the 20th century, on your
side you have some bozo nobody ever heard of who typed some stuff onto a
website or onto a dead tree that also nobody has ever heard of.


  rather than reject them out of hand because the idea doesn't fit into
 their existing conceptual framework.


That is just utterly ridiculous.  It is the dream  of ALL experimenters to
find something that existing science can not explain, and it is the dream
of theorists to find red meat to sink their teeth into, it's the only
reason people do science. If the good people who run the LHC don't find
something that, unlike the Higgs, does NOT fit with known physics then a
large number of them will need to be put on a suicide watch. And you don't
need a 10 bullion dollar accelerator to do that sort of research, if there
were anything to parapsychology it would have been proven to everybody's
satisfaction centuries ago.

When Roentgen discovered X rays there was no theoretical framework to
explain them, zero, zilch, nada, goose egg; and yet the man was treated as
a conquering hero by his fellow scientists and received the very first
Nobel Prize in physics. Why? Because he used those X rays, whatever the
hell they were, to photograph the bones in his wife's hand. Roentgen made a
extraordinary claim but he had extraordinary evidence, parapsychology also
makes extraordinary claims but unlike Roentgen  parapsychology has no bones
to show.

Suppose the Everything list existed in 1865 what would be different? Well,
we'd be using Morse Code and a telegraph key instead of the Internet (with
a lot less quoted material I'll bet), and the discussions about biology and
astronomy and mathematics and physics would be vastly different because in
the last 150 years those subjects have advanced radically; but the field of
parapsychology has not advanced one inch in all that time, not one
nanometer, even the evidence that the field of parapsychology actually
exists is not one iota better today than it was in 1865. The evidence
stinked then and it stinks now, nevertheless in 1865 people would be
telegraphing messages to the Everything list complaining about how modern
natural philosophers like Darwin and Maxwell don't pay enough attention to
recent developments in spiritualism.


  the leading journals points to a dangerous attitude present in those
 academic journals which will only stifle the rate of progress


Yeah, the trouble with the world is there just isn't enough junk science.

  John K Clark

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A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the
beginning of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list about
the paranormal and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake and
other forms of infantile junk science has come up here I thought I'd
send it to this list also. One year from now I intend to send this same
message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.


Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.
And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural
world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything
interesting to say about it.

You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an
eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN
in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true
because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
about it in a dream.

PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from
today.

John K Clark

-- 
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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Kim Jones]

Yes, I think we are all sufficiently aware of how bereft of the ravages of 
imagination you are. Take a bow. You need the adulation, clearly.

Kim Jones
 

 On 1 Jan 2015, at 3:42 am, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the 
 beginning of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list about
 the paranormal and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake and 
 other forms of infantile junk science has come up here I thought I'd 
 send it to this list also. One year from now I intend to send this same
 message yet again. 
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 
 Happy New Year all.
 
 I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
 Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
 prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
 people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.
 And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
 say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural
 world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything
 interesting to say about it.
 
 You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an
 eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
 Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN
 in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true
 because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
 about it in a dream.
 
 PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from
 today.
 
 John K Clark
 
 
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 Everything List group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[LizR]

You clearly have psychic powers, Mr Clark! Being able to reliably predict
that no accidents or illnesses or anything else will prevent you from
making the same prediction a year from now - and since the prediction you
intend to make is identical, it will include the same pediction for the
year after *that* ... I think you can see where this is going ... you are
effectively saying you will repeat the same prediction *forever* ... which
would indeed be miraculous.

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Kim Jones]

I predict John Clark will make this prediction again exactly one year from now 
unless his computer develops arms and throttles him before he can do it. I also 
predict that some one will tell me that this has already happened in universes 
with perhaps exceedingly low measure.

For the rest of us, this yearly boat trip with John to The Safe Havens of 
thinking will remain something to look forward to

K

 

 On 1 Jan 2015, at 11:24 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 You clearly have psychic powers, Mr Clark! Being able to reliably predict 
 that no accidents or illnesses or anything else will prevent you from making 
 the same prediction a year from now - and since the prediction you intend to 
 make is identical, it will include the same pediction for the year after that 
 ... I think you can see where this is going ... you are effectively saying 
 you will repeat the same prediction forever ... which would indeed be 
 miraculous.
 
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A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the
beginning of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list about
the paranormal and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake and
other forms of infantile junk science has come up here I thought I'd
send it to this list also. One year from now I intend to send this same
message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.


Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.
And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural
world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything
interesting to say about it.

You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an
eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN
in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true
because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
about it in a dream.

PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from
today.

John K Clark

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Platonist Guitar Cowboy]

On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 5:01 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:

 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the
 beginning of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list about
 the paranormal and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake and
 other forms of infantile junk science has come up here I thought I'd
 send it to this list also. One year from now I intend to send this same
 message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 

 Happy New Year all.

 I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
 Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
 prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
 people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.
 And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
 say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural
 world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything
 interesting to say about it.

 You might think my prediction is crazy,


Not in the slightest. I predicted that you would pretend to predict this,
being fundamentalist still-in-closet theologian of
peer-reviewdom-science-nature-consensus-truthiness-magic... and that you
will keep doing so in the future. I just didn't tell anybody because it was
kind of obvious, no?

 like saying a waitress with an
 eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
 Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN
 in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true
 because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
 about it in a dream.

 PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from
 today.


Sure you are. All magicians and bad sages are. Pyromaniac Global
Contributor [to the destruction of matter (the duty of any self-respecting
denizen of platonia is to blow up matter itself. Tonight. They will make it
illegal someday, for reasons that do not really matter, so...)]




 John K Clark



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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[LizR]

AH, but last year there was one less heading on your message!

Have happy (and pedantic) new year :-)


On 1 January 2014 05:01, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:

 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the
 beginning of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list about
 the paranormal and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake and
 other forms of infantile junk science has come up here I thought I'd
 send it to this list also. One year from now I intend to send this same
 message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 
 One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
 word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.
 

 Happy New Year all.

 I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
 Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
 prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
 people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.
 And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
 say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural
 world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything
 interesting to say about it.

 You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an
 eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
 Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN
 in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true
 because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
 about it in a dream.

 PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from
 today.

 John K Clark



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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Craig Weinberg]

On Saturday, January 5, 2013 8:47:14 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

  On 1/5/2013 5:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: 

 The easy problem is harder than the hard problem in the sense that it is 
 the long way around.


 No, it's harder because you can tell when you've failed.

 Brent



It's not hard for me to tell at all. If you understand how and why 
experience exists, then you have succeeded. If you have convinced yourself 
that the problem isn't real or important then you have failed. 

Craig

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Craig Weinberg]

On Sunday, January 6, 2013 1:24:48 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:

 On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote:
  

  Even people who have no sense of humor can deduce that other people do 
 have it, 


 Would they if only 0.001% of the population had a sense of humor?


 Yes, because unlike psi it would be easily repeatable, if one person who 
 claimed to have a sense of humor laughed and said that was a very good joke 
 it is statistically very likely (although not certain) that another person 
 who also claimed to have a sense of humor would make the same noise, 


Why? Do all people who have a good sense of humor laugh at the same jokes? 
 

 but the sound of laughter would not be heard when the vast majority who 
 don't even understand what the word humor means heard the joke.


  Chalmers was just trying to make the point that it is a whole different 
 order of difficult. The easy problem is quantitatively difficult, but 
 progress is inevitable with applied effort. The hard problem is 
 qualitatively difficult, so that not only is progress not inevitable, but 
 it is not necessarily a realistic possibility.


 And that's what doesn't add up. As you say solving the easy problem is 
 inevitable, and solving it would be of some philosophical interest and earn 
 its discoverer several trillion dollars as a bonus, and yet nobody on this 
 list casually spins theories about how to solve it. In contrast although 
 success is not guaranteed and there would be no financial bonus in solving 
 the hard problem every dilettante has their own theory about it and some, 
 such as yourself, have even claimed to have already solved it. 


Solving the easy problem doesn't necessarily require a theory, just access 
to expensive laboratory equipment, hospitals, political influence, etc. 
It's like the Human Genome Project - the theory is not the problem, it just 
takes a lot of cataloging and correlating requiring huge amounts of time.
 


 The reason for this is that a hard problem theory doesn't have to actually 
 do anything, but a easy problem theory most certainly does. Any hard 
 problem theory will work just fine, any at all, 


For example?
 

 but the wrong easy problem theory will send a start-up company into 
 bankruptcy.  So the end result is that being a hard problem theorist is 
 ridiculously easy but being a easy problem theorist is devilishly hard, and 
 that's why armchair philosophers concentrate on the one and not the other. 
 


Building 100ft sculptures of people's cats out of toothpicks would be 
devilishly hard and profitable too. Why does that matter? I don't 
understand this theme of one-upsmanship. I don't see a contest between the 
easy and hard problem or between computer or human superiority. You 
apparently do though. Everything seems to boil down to some variation of 
'My assumptions are justified because winners win with winning assumptions, 
and winning always wins... and don't forget the winning.'


  Genius and madness are notoriously close. 


 There is a bit of madness in many geniuses, but most madmen have no trace 
 of genius whatsoever because madness is a much more common phenomenon than 
 genius. Tesla was a genius and a crackpot, but for every Tesla there is a 
 mole of pure unadulterated crackpots.


I think the ratio is less extreme than you might think. Anyone who is crazy 
has access, by definition, to perspectives that the majority do not. Genius 
is the ability to use those sensitivities to some greater understanding, 
and with luck, innovation. Most people in a psych ward are not geniuses, 
but I would guess that particularly among some kinds of mental illness, 
there is a disproportionately high level of intelligence.

 

  If it weren't for crackpots though, we would never likely be tempted to 
 explore new areas. [...] we cannot afford for a tiny fraction of the 
 population to deviate from the herd. I say that increasing that number 10 
 fold could only help.


 Yeah, all the problems of the world come from the fact that there just 
 aren't enough loonies running around.  


Loonies have never been a source of oppression to me. It always been the 
fearful, conformist people who have caused problems in my life.
 


  Why doesn't some respectable non-crackpot reproduce Sheldrake's 
 experiments and prove him wrong?


 They have,


For example?
 

 but like any card caring member of the crackpot guild being proven wrong 
 has absolutely no effect on  Sheldrake's behavior or that of his fans.


If someone has proved Sheldrake wrong, I would be interested in reading 
about it. 

Craig
 


   John K Clark
  
  

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Bruno Marchal]

On 06 Jan 2013, at 02:47, meekerdb wrote:


On 1/5/2013 5:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:


The easy problem is harder than the hard problem in the sense that  
it is the long way around.


No, it's harder because you can tell when you've failed.


I guess you meant  it's harder because you CAN'T tell when you've  
failed.
But this is theory dependent. With comp + classical theory of  
knowledge (recover by Theatetus applied on Gödel's beweisbar  
arithmetical predicate) you get a whole theory of qualia+quanta.  
Evidences from empirical quanta on it does give evidence on the theory  
of qualia (the hard problem), and refutation by quanta refute  
automatically the qualia theory, and so it can be shown wrong.


Bruno

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[meekerdb]

On 1/8/2013 6:36 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:



On Saturday, January 5, 2013 8:47:14 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

On 1/5/2013 5:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

The easy problem is harder than the hard problem in the sense that it is 
the long
way around.


No, it's harder because you can tell when you've failed.

Brent



It's not hard for me to tell at all. If you understand how and why experience exists, 
then you have succeeded.


And you do because you've put a label on it, sense.  You're right, that is 
easy.

Brent

If you have convinced yourself that the problem isn't real or important then you have 
failed.


Craig
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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[meekerdb]

On 1/8/2013 9:30 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 06 Jan 2013, at 02:47, meekerdb wrote:


On 1/5/2013 5:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
The easy problem is harder than the hard problem in the sense that it is the long way 
around.


No, it's harder because you can tell when you've failed.


I guess you meant  it's harder because you CAN'T tell when you've failed.


No, I meant the easy problem is harder because you can tell when you've failed to 
explain intelligence: You use your hypothetical explanation to make something that should 
be intelligent. When it acts stupid, you've failed.


Brent

But this is theory dependent. With comp + classical theory of knowledge (recover by 
Theatetus applied on Gödel's beweisbar arithmetical predicate) you get a whole theory of 
qualia+quanta. Evidences from empirical quanta on it does give evidence on the theory of 
qualia (the hard problem), and refutation by quanta refute automatically the qualia 
theory, and so it can be shown wrong.


Bruno

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/



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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at  Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:


  unlike psi it would be easily repeatable, if one person who claimed to
 have a sense of humor laughed and said that was a very good joke it is
 statistically very likely (although not certain) that another person who
 also claimed to have a sense of humor would make the same noise,


  Why? Do all people who have a good sense of humor laugh at the same
 jokes?


Pretty much, certainly the probability of hearing the sound of laughter is
much higher than you'd expect from pure randomness, otherwise it would be
impossible for professional comedians to make a living. There are
professional  fortune tellers but they make their living by fooling the
stupid not mother nature. If psi is a real phenomenon I don't understand
why state lotteries nevertheless consistently manage make money.

 a hard problem theory doesn't have to actually do anything, but a easy
 problem theory most certainly does. Any hard problem theory will work just
 fine, any at all,


  For example?


Only one thing in the universe can produce consciousness, the left big toe
on a size 12 foot. This theory is perfectly consistent with everything I
have ever observed about consciousness. By the way, I happen to ware size
12 shoes and still have 10 toes.

 Building 100ft sculptures of people's cats out of toothpicks would be
 devilishly hard


Yes.


  and profitable too.


No.

 Why does that matter?


Beats the hell out of me.

 I don't see a contest between the easy and hard problem


If you have 2 problems to solve you don't see the value of solving the easy
one first and then using the wisdom gained from that solution to solve the
harder problem?

 Everything seems to boil down to some variation of 'My assumptions are
 justified because winners win with winning assumptions, and winning always
 wins... and don't forget the winning.'


Very well put.

  John K Clark

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Craig Weinberg]

On Tuesday, January 8, 2013 12:37:47 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

  On 1/8/2013 6:36 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: 



 On Saturday, January 5, 2013 8:47:14 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: 

  On 1/5/2013 5:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: 

 The easy problem is harder than the hard problem in the sense that it is 
 the long way around.


 No, it's harder because you can tell when you've failed.

 Brent
  


 It's not hard for me to tell at all. If you understand how and why 
 experience exists, then you have succeeded. 


 And you do because you've put a label on it, sense.  You're right, that 
 is easy.


Because I understand that the universe can only be experience. Without 
experience, there is no universe unless you arbitrarily take naive 
mechanism on faith. Nothing which is experienced within the universe can 
account for experience itself, and nothing can be imagined. To the 
contrary, that we see through our own eyes, hear through our own ears, 
think with our own minds is the only thing that cannot be denied or 
explained.

Saying that experience is sense is my way of implying that it is not human 
consciousness what the universe is, but rather there are many different 
qualities of perception and participation enfolded and juxtaposed 
throughout and that there isn't anything that is not an aspect of sense.

Craig


 Brent

  If you have convinced yourself that the problem isn't real or important 
 then you have failed. 

 Craig
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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Craig Weinberg]

On Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:27:20 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:

 On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at  Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com 
 javascript:wrote:
  

  unlike psi it would be easily repeatable, if one person who claimed to 
 have a sense of humor laughed and said that was a very good joke it is 
 statistically very likely (although not certain) that another person who 
 also claimed to have a sense of humor would make the same noise, 


  Why? Do all people who have a good sense of humor laugh at the same 
 jokes? 


 Pretty much, certainly the probability of hearing the sound of laughter is 
 much higher than you'd expect from pure randomness, otherwise it would be 
 impossible for professional comedians to make a living. There are 
 professional  fortune tellers but they make their living by fooling the 
 stupid not mother nature. If psi is a real phenomenon I don't understand 
 why state lotteries nevertheless consistently manage make money.  


What's the difference between people who laugh at comedians and people who 
are counseled by psychics? There are more astrologers than astronomers, 
maybe that means that some people just have sensitivities that others lack? 
I would think it would be strange if there wasn't such variation. Some 
people are stronger in logic, some engineering, some poetry or painting, 
why wouldn't some people have a more developed intuition about people and 
their lives? Personally I don't trust others to counsel me in general, and 
even less so any random professional psychic, but I don't doubt that 
psychics have helped and hurt people as much as other kinds of therapists 
(who I would also avoid in general).
 


   a hard problem theory doesn't have to actually do anything, but a easy 
 problem theory most certainly does. Any hard problem theory will work just 
 fine, any at all, 


  For example?


 Only one thing in the universe can produce consciousness, the left big toe 
 on a size 12 foot. This theory is perfectly consistent with everything I 
 have ever observed about consciousness. By the way, I happen to ware size 
 12 shoes and still have 10 toes.


That's not a hard problem theory, that's an easy problem theory. It doesn't 
explain why there is consciousness in the first place. It doesn't matter 
whether consciousness appears in brain tissue for no reason or your big toe 
for no reason. They both come from the same stem cell anyhow, and there's 
really nothing very special about neurons.
 


  Building 100ft sculptures of people's cats out of toothpicks would be 
 devilishly hard


 Yes.
  

  and profitable too.


 No.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/12/italy-rich-cat-tommaso_n_1143022.html

I think you might find enough clients in the $500,000 - $1,000,000 range to 
pay the rent. I guess it depends on the price of toothpicks.



   Why does that matter?


 Beats the hell out of me.

  I don't see a contest between the easy and hard problem 


 If you have 2 problems to solve you don't see the value of solving the 
 easy one first and then using the wisdom gained from that solution to solve 
 the harder problem? 


Why would every person on Earth have to work on one first and not the 
other? Should we stop all space exploration until after we cure cancer?
 


  Everything seems to boil down to some variation of 'My assumptions are 
 justified because winners win with winning assumptions, and winning always 
 wins... and don't forget the winning.'


 Very well put.


; )
 


   John K Clark


  


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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:


 Even people who have no sense of humor can deduce that other people do
 have it,


 Would they if only 0.001% of the population had a sense of humor?


Yes, because unlike psi it would be easily repeatable, if one person who
claimed to have a sense of humor laughed and said that was a very good joke
it is statistically very likely (although not certain) that another person
who also claimed to have a sense of humor would make the same noise, but
the sound of laughter would not be heard when the vast majority who don't
even understand what the word humor means heard the joke.

 Chalmers was just trying to make the point that it is a whole different
 order of difficult. The easy problem is quantitatively difficult, but
 progress is inevitable with applied effort. The hard problem is
 qualitatively difficult, so that not only is progress not inevitable, but
 it is not necessarily a realistic possibility.


And that's what doesn't add up. As you say solving the easy problem is
inevitable, and solving it would be of some philosophical interest and earn
its discoverer several trillion dollars as a bonus, and yet nobody on this
list casually spins theories about how to solve it. In contrast although
success is not guaranteed and there would be no financial bonus in solving
the hard problem every dilettante has their own theory about it and some,
such as yourself, have even claimed to have already solved it.

The reason for this is that a hard problem theory doesn't have to actually
do anything, but a easy problem theory most certainly does. Any hard
problem theory will work just fine, any at all,  but the wrong easy problem
theory will send a start-up company into bankruptcy.  So the end result is
that being a hard problem theorist is ridiculously easy but being a easy
problem theorist is devilishly hard, and that's why armchair philosophers
concentrate on the one and not the other.

 Genius and madness are notoriously close.


There is a bit of madness in many geniuses, but most madmen have no trace
of genius whatsoever because madness is a much more common phenomenon than
genius. Tesla was a genius and a crackpot, but for every Tesla there is a
mole of pure unadulterated crackpots.


  If it weren't for crackpots though, we would never likely be tempted to
 explore new areas. [...] we cannot afford for a tiny fraction of the
 population to deviate from the herd. I say that increasing that number 10
 fold could only help.


Yeah, all the problems of the world come from the fact that there just
aren't enough loonies running around.

 Why doesn't some respectable non-crackpot reproduce Sheldrake's
 experiments and prove him wrong?


They have, but like any card caring member of the crackpot guild being
proven wrong has absolutely no effect on  Sheldrake's behavior or that of
his fans.

  John K Clark

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013  Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:

 That's like betting that the Catholic Church won't make Martin Luther a
 saint again this year.


I don't see the analogy. The Catholic Church, like all religions, claims to
have all the answers and the last thing they'd want is to dig up difficult
questions; but physicists at CERN have spent 10 billion dollars on a
particle accelerator for the sole purpose of finding something that they
can not explain. And so far, to their considerable disappointment, they
have not been successful.


 If you notice, no private phenomena can be easily substantiated.


If psi were a private phenomena I would have no problem with it, the
problem is that people can't stop blabbing about it and claiming that it
gave them actionable intelligence that they otherwise would not have.

 There won't be any publications proving the fact that we laugh because
 things are funny,


That's because the existence of funny things is not in dispute, and the
non-existence of psi is no longer either.

 Research of psi may indeed be misguided


May? Decades of research with absolutely positively NOTHING to show for it,
not even evidence that there is something there to study, if that isn't
misguided what is?

 it is not likely that the old guard of physics will ever be able to get
 beyond their own prejudice, and will go to their graves hanging on to the
 legacies of the 19th and 20th centuries


And just like today in the 19th century fans of junk science were
complaining that they were not given enough respect by mainstream
scientists, but history has proven that they were given all the respect
they deserved.

By the way, I've been on the everything list for all of 2012 and, although
I strongly disagreed with some of the things said, I marveled that it was
blissfully free of downright junk science. But then just a few days ago at
the beginning of this new year somebody mentioned Rupert Sheldrake and
overnight the IQ of the list dropped by 40 points.

  John K Clark

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Craig Weinberg]

On Saturday, January 5, 2013 11:05:24 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:

 On Fri, Jan 4, 2013  Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote:

  That's like betting that the Catholic Church won't make Martin Luther a 
 saint again this year.


 I don't see the analogy. 


I'm not surprised.
 

 The Catholic Church, like all religions, claims to have all the answers 
 and the last thing they'd want is to dig up difficult questions; but 
 physicists at CERN have spent 10 billion dollars on a particle accelerator 
 for the sole purpose of finding something that they can not explain. And so 
 far, to their considerable disappointment, they have not been successful. 


You mean that physicists have been given 10 billion dollars to spend on 
particle accelerators (and comfortable salaries as well, among other things 
I would imagine). If someone was going to give me 10 billion dollars I 
think that I could try to find something that I could not explain also. Not 
saying that scientific curiosity is fake, only that you are applying a 
naive double standard to Big Science over Big Religion. As always - follow 
the money. What physics has confirmed is that its model pf matter is 
self-consistent, not that it has scientifically explained what forces and 
fields actually are.
 

  

 If you notice, no private phenomena can be easily substantiated. 


 If psi were a private phenomena I would have no problem with it, the 
 problem is that people can't stop blabbing about it and claiming that it 
 gave them actionable intelligence that they otherwise would not have.  


Actionable intelligence is private. It only becomes public if we try to 
prove it publicly, but like the double slit experiment, sometimes the act 
of trying to prove things - even intending to prove things is not a neutral 
act. Each moment of our experience has many different layers of interaction 
and feedback, some explicit and local, others intuitive, implicit, and 
perhaps relating to a 'larger now'.

 We use intuition all the time. Don't you ever notice how things often work 
out smoothly when you take coincidences and lucky timing as an invitation 
to 'go with it' rather than rigidly sticking with your pre-arranged 
schedule? 


  There won't be any publications proving the fact that we laugh because 
 things are funny,


 That's because the existence of funny things is not in dispute, and the 
 non-existence of psi is no longer either. 


If people who had no sense of humor were in charge of peer reviews, then I 
think that you would find that the existence of funny things would be in 
dispute and that the non-existence of them would not be either.
 


  Research of psi may indeed be misguided 


 May? Decades of research with absolutely positively NOTHING to show for 
 it, not even evidence that there is something there to study, if that isn't 
 misguided what is?


In science though, we can't claim that we know for certain that any course 
of research is misguided, only that it has not proved anything so far. The 
record of AI development is similarly fruitless at demonstrating computer 
awareness.
 


  it is not likely that the old guard of physics will ever be able to get 
 beyond their own prejudice, and will go to their graves hanging on to the 
 legacies of the 19th and 20th centuries


 And just like today in the 19th century fans of junk science were 
 complaining that they were not given enough respect by mainstream 
 scientists, but history has proven that they were given all the respect 
 they deserved.


Medical science played with leeches and incantations for a long time before 
other methods were developed. What psi researchers have done so far may be 
no better than Paracelsus did, but so what? That doesn't mean that what 
they are looking at can be explained away by 20th century physics. We don't 
say 'pfft, stupid medieval doctors not only failed to cure the plague, but 
they helped spread it' and dismiss the whole idea of medicine based on that.
 


 By the way, I've been on the everything list for all of 2012 and, although 
 I strongly disagreed with some of the things said, I marveled that it was 
 blissfully free of downright junk science. But then just a few days ago at 
 the beginning of this new year somebody mentioned Rupert Sheldrake and 
 overnight the IQ of the list dropped by 40 points. 


You know that Rupert Sheldrake was the Director of Studies in Biochemistry 
and Cell biology at Cambridge, right?

and a Research Fellow of the Royal Society. From 1974 to 1985 he worked in 
Hyderabad in India as Principal Plant Physiologist at the International 
Crops Research Institute for the Semi-Arid Tropics

If you are expecting pioneers in frontier fields not to be flaky compared 
to the hordes of careerists in the established fields of science, then it 
is always going to look to you that we have the best possible understanding 
of science right now and that all deviation from it is stupidity or heresy. 
That isn't how 

Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Craig Weinberg]

On Saturday, January 5, 2013 4:28:30 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:

 On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Craig Weinberg 
 whats...@gmail.comjavascript:
  wrote:

  You mean that physicists have been given 10 billion dollars to spend on 
 particle accelerators (and comfortable salaries as well, among other things 
 I would imagine). 


 Yes. 

  If someone was going to give me 10 billion dollars I think that I could 
 try to find something that I could not explain also. 


 And physicists have *tried* to do that also, so far no luck, but nothing 
 gets their blood moving like a experimental result they can't explain. If 
 psi was real physicists would love it, if psi was real it would have been 
 proven to everybody's satisfaction in the 17'th century,  if psi was real 
 high school kids would be repeating the 300 year old experiments in their 
 science fair projects, if psi was real I personally would love it too, in 
 fact it's hard to imagine anyone not loving something as cool as psi. But 
 unfortunately psi is not real.  

   We use intuition all the time. 


 I have no quarrel with intuition, I have no problem with using rules of 
 thumb and or probability to make decisions, it's pseudo science that I 
 don't like.

  If people who had no sense of humor were in charge of peer reviews, then 
 I think that you would find that the existence of funny things would be in 
 dispute 


 Even people who have no sense of humor can deduce that other people do 
 have it, 


Would they if only 0.001% of the population had a sense of humor? If movies 
and books and cartoons were made for the other 99.999% and contained no 
humorous references?
 

 and even if the peer review editors had no psi ability themselves they 
 could deduce that other people had them if they did. But they don't so they 
 can't.


Maybe, but not necessarily. We have words for things like luck and kismet 
and destiny, which could not easily be modeled as physical phenomena, but 
that doesn't mean that there is nothing at all to them in all cases.
 


  In science though, we can't claim that we know for certain that any 
 course of research is misguided, only that it has not proved anything so 
 far. 


 We know with certainty that all the paranormal research of the last 
 century has produced absolutely nothing and they might as well of kept 
 their hands in their pockets for the last hundred years; so if you were a 
 talented researcher with good judgement would you pick that field, would 
 you spend your finite resources on that crap?   


I'm not personally drawn to investigate those areas, but then again, I have 
my own framework for understanding non-ordinary awareness. If I were 
personally impacted by some psi-related event or capacity, I don't see any 
reason not to spend time and effort looking into it. We don't all have to 
be watching infinitesimal particle collisions on multi-billion dollar 
racetracks.


  The record of AI development is similarly fruitless at demonstrating 
 computer awareness.


 Computers are far smarter than they were 10 years ago, but making machines 
 behave intelligently is supposed to be the easy AI problem, the hard 
 problem is making them conscious; armchair philosophers are constantly 
 spinning theories that they think will solve the hard problem, you've done 
 it yourself, and yet they don't even attempt to solve the easy problem. Why 
 is it that you can solve the hard problem but don't even claim to know the 
 first thing about solving the easy problem? It's because the easy problem 
 is far far more difficult than the hard problem. 


The easy problem is harder than the hard problem in the sense that it is 
the long way around. It is like trying to reconstruct the recipe for apple 
pie using a mass spectrometer and electron microscope. It is not easy by 
any means, but it is much easier than trying to explain why and there is a 
such thing as an experience of tasting the flavor of apple pie. In naming 
the two problems hard and easy, Chalmers was just trying to make the point 
that it is a whole different order of difficult. The easy problem is 
quantitatively difficult, but progress is inevitable with applied effort. 
The hard problem is qualitatively difficult, so that not only is progress 
not inevitable, but it is not necessarily a realistic possibility.


   You know that Rupert Sheldrake was the Director of Studies in 
 Biochemistry and Cell biology at Cambridge, right?and a Research Fellow of 
 the Royal Society. From 1974 to 1985 he worked in Hyderabad in India as 
 Principal Plant Physiologist at the International Crops Research Institute


 My beef with Sheldrake has nothing to do with him helping farmers grow 
 more food, my complaint is that he's a crackpot. He wouldn't be the first 
 scientist to go nuts, Brian Josephson was a much better scientist than 
 Sheldrake ever was and in the early 60's wrote an absolutely brilliant 
 paper on superconductivity and won a Nobel Prize, but very 

Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[meekerdb]

On 1/5/2013 5:39 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
The easy problem is harder than the hard problem in the sense that it is the long way 
around.


No, it's harder because you can tell when you've failed.

Brent

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote:

 So how ever many years ago you there confident that CERN would discover
 the Higgs?


About 15, and in not one of those 15 years would I have confidently
predicted that nothing new about the Higgs would be discovered in the next
year, but I will make that prediction about the paranormal.


 And this post proves?


That in the last 200 years research into the supernatural has produced
precisely ZERO results; and I'm not even talking about developing a theory
to explain how it works, I'm talking about obtaining enough experimental
evidence to show that a explanation is needed. We could be having this same
exact conversation about the paranormal in 1913, or even 1813 and you could
still be complaining that mainstream scientists (they were called Natural
Philosophers back then) were not paying enough attention to psi or ESP or
spiritualism or whatever. The field has not moved one inch in centuries,
not one Planck Length. As a result those doing full time ESP work today are
third or fourth rate, if they were really skilled in the art of
experimentation they'd be doing other things, they would never pick a field
as moribund as parapsychology. However if you're all thumbs in the lab then
parapsychology researcher is the perfect career choice because if you're
looking for something that doesn't exist a poor researcher will get more
encouraging results than a good one.


  Pfft, do better, John.


If you disagree with me then show the courage of your convictions and let's
make a bet! If there is a article in Science or Nature or Physical Review
Letters about something (by whatever name) in the brain or in the mind that
violates the known laws of physics before January 4 2014 I will give you
$1000, and if there is not you only have to give me $100. I don't demand a
explanation of this new phenomena just that the editors of one of those
journals thinks that there is something interesting there, something that
needs to be explain. So do we have a bet? I'm completely serious about this
and if there is anybody else who would like to take this bet please say so;
come on, I'm giving you 10 to 1 odds. if you believe in this crap then it's
easy money.

  John K Clark









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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Craig Weinberg]

On Friday, January 4, 2013 12:48:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:

 On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 Stephen P. King step...@charter.net javascript:wrote:

  So how ever many years ago you there confident that CERN would discover 
 the Higgs?


 About 15, and in not one of those 15 years would I have confidently 
 predicted that nothing new about the Higgs would be discovered in the next 
 year, but I will make that prediction about the paranormal. 
  

 And this post proves? 


 That in the last 200 years research into the supernatural has produced 
 precisely ZERO results; and I'm not even talking about developing a theory 
 to explain how it works, I'm talking about obtaining enough experimental 
 evidence to show that a explanation is needed. We could be having this same 
 exact conversation about the paranormal in 1913, or even 1813 and you could 
 still be complaining that mainstream scientists (they were called Natural 
 Philosophers back then) were not paying enough attention to psi or ESP or 
 spiritualism or whatever. The field has not moved one inch in centuries, 
 not one Planck Length. As a result those doing full time ESP work today are 
 third or fourth rate, if they were really skilled in the art of 
 experimentation they'd be doing other things, they would never pick a field 
 as moribund as parapsychology. However if you're all thumbs in the lab then 
 parapsychology researcher is the perfect career choice because if you're 
 looking for something that doesn't exist a poor researcher will get more 
 encouraging results than a good one.
  

  Pfft, do better, John.


 If you disagree with me then show the courage of your convictions and 
 let's make a bet! If there is a article in Science or Nature or Physical 
 Review Letters about something (by whatever name) in the brain or in the 
 mind that violates the known laws of physics before January 4 2014 I will 
 give you $1000, and if there is not you only have to give me $100. I don't 
 demand a explanation of this new phenomena just that the editors of one of 
 those journals thinks that there is something interesting there, something 
 that needs to be explain. So do we have a bet? I'm completely serious about 
 this and if there is anybody else who would like to take this bet please 
 say so; come on, I'm giving you 10 to 1 odds. if you believe in this crap 
 then it's easy money.

   John K Clark



That's like betting that the Catholic Church won't make Martin Luther a 
saint again this year.

If you notice, no private phenomena can be easily substantiated. There 
won't be any publications proving the fact that we laugh because things are 
funny, or that there is another way that blueness can be demonstrated 
besides seeing it for yourself.

Research of psi may indeed be misguided in trying to make public that which 
is so specifically private. To me, it makes sense that there is a directly 
proportionate relation, so that the more interior and esoteric the 
experience, the more resistant it will be to public examination. This seems 
to be our intuition - 'you're not going to believe this,' etc. 

This doesn't mean that there are not experiences which do not fit easily 
into a simplistic cartoon of physics which imagines thoughtless matter 
accidentally thinking. Science may forever preside only over the realism of 
public space, and forever sneer at private experience, or it may address 
privacy itself in a scientific and unbiased way someday. As has been 
pointed out here, quoted from Planck, it is not likely that the old guard 
of physics will ever be able to get beyond their own prejudice, and will go 
to their graves hanging on to the legacies of the 19th and 20th 
centuries...two centuries which may, like the fossil fuels which powered 
them, turn out to be anomalies.

Craig

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A paranormal prediction for the next year

[John Clark]

I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the
beginning of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list about
the paranormal and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake and
other forms of infantile junk science has come up here I thought I'd
send it to this list also. One year from now I intend to send this same
message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.


Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.
And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural
world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything
interesting to say about it.

You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an
eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN
in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true
because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
about it in a dream.

PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from
today.

John K Clark

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Re: A paranormal prediction for the next year

[Stephen P. King]

Hi,

So how ever many years ago you there confident that CERN would 
discover the Higgs? And this post proves? Pfft, do better, John.



On 1/3/2013 11:29 PM, John Clark wrote:

I have been a member of the Extropian List for many years and at the
beginning of the year it is my habit to send a message to that list about
the paranormal and psi. Sense the subject of Rupert Sheldrake and
other forms of infantile junk science has come up here I thought I'd
send it to this list also. One year from now I intend to send this same
message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.

One year ago I sent the following post to the list, I did not change one
word. One year from now I intend to send this same message yet again.


Happy New Year all.

I predict that a paper reporting positive psi results will NOT appear in
Nature or Science in the next year. This may seem an outrageous
prediction, after all psi is hardly a rare phenomena, millions of
people with no training have managed to observe it, or claim they have.
And I am sure the good people at Nature and Science would want to
say something about this very important and obvious part of our natural
world if they could, but I predict they will be unable to find anything
interesting to say about it.

You might think my prediction is crazy, like saying a waitress with an
eight's grade education in Duluth Minnesota can regularly observe the
Higgs boson with no difficulty but the highly trained Physicists at CERN
in Switzerland cannot. Nevertheless I am confident my prediction is true
because my ghostly spirit guide Mohammad Duntoldme spoke to me
about it in a dream.

PS: I am also confident I can make this very same prediction one year from
today.

John K Clark


--
Onward!

Stephen


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