Belated joining post
Recent dialogues with Russell, plus discovering and finding helpful previous joining posts, prompts me to post this for reference purposes. I was born in 1950 in Glasgow Scotland of Anglo-Scottish parents, and come from Hungarian, Middle Eastern, Russian, and Polish ancestry insofar as I can trace it. Mixed, anyway. My formal academic background is also best described as 'mixed', but early on I always felt a bit inadequate compared to my teachers, who seemed to just 'know' the 'answers' somehow, because they wrote them straight on to the blackboard. Myself, I had to 'puzzle' them out by something like trial and error. Also, their 'explanations' seemed to lead only to more questions. This exasperated my teachers. One day (I guess I must have been about 9) I read a book of logic problems that not only contained the answers, but the author's account of how he'd reached them. Turns out he'd used trial and error! I remember it dawned on me like a bolt of lightning: Everybody thinks like this! And thus reassured, I went on in this way. There's a corollary to this tale. Many years later, I attended a seminar where the neuroscientist Karl Pribram was the principal presenter. I was so stimulated by the dialogue that I 'kidnapped' him afterwards by giving him a lift to the house where we'd both been invited to dinner. As he sat wearily in the passenger seat, I rambled on about this and that, and after a while this led to my 'sharing' my great 'Everybody thinks like that' insight. You're wrong. he said, and sank back into torpor. My heart sank. Then he sighed, and said: Only people who can think at all, think like that. My professional career spans 35+ years in computer systems development in the private sector, from machine code and plug-board days, through assembler and a wide variety of high-level languages. The hands-on part spanned more than 20 years and I worked originally in commercial applications development for systems vendors, focusing on elements of operating systems and failure and recovery methods. I developed early versions of 'net-change' manufacturing planning and forecasting systems, and from 1989, was an early participant in the nascent on- line (originally phone-based) retail financial sector. I became Head of Systems Architecture and Head of Information Analysis for the first UK on-line bank, and Head of IT for an on-line retail insurer. These days, I do part time IT and business consultancy, and dabble in topics like those on this list. I've now achieved the status I've always sought: self-employed dilettante. I can't recall exactly when my interest in AI and 'mind body' issues began, but it was re-stimulated by John Searle's ideas as presented in the 1984 BBC Reith Lectures, which got me furiously thinking and reading about functionalism and then-current mind-brain theories like Pribram's Holonomic theory. I reached a vague realisation that functionalism was incompatible with materialism, which is why I had a start of recognition when I encountered Bruno's arguments. But I've really spent the intervening period just 'dilettanting' around the related areas - philosophy of mind, epistemology, QM, cosmology, Darwinism, etc. - as my enthusiasm and energy waxes and wanes. I've read or skimmed quite a lot of the book list others have mentioned, but definitely need more rigour on the math and logic background. The existence of forums like this one has more or less kept my marriage intact when it might not have survived many further attempts to 'innocently' subvert ordinary conversations into 'epistomology' or some such nonsense. A few books that have triggered something or other, or that I often return to: The Fabric of Reality (Deutsch) The Conscious Mind (Chalmers) Wholeness and the Implicate Order (Bohm) The End of Time (Barbour) The Emperor's New Mind (Penrose) Theory of Nothing (Standish) Laws of Form (Spencer-Brown) The Quark and The Jaguar (Gell-Mann) Godel, Escher Bach (Hofstadter) The Mind's I (Hofstadter and Dennett) Consciousness Explained (Dennett) The Selfish Gene (Dawkins) The Blank Slate (Pinker) The Logic of Scientific Discovery (Popper) The Open Society and Its Enemies (Popper) The Man who mistook His Wife for a Hat (Sacks) The Society of Mind (Minsky) How Children Learn (Holt) The Act of Creation (Koestler) The Psychology of Learning Mathematics (Skemp) Frogs into Princes (Bandler and Grinder) The Complete Sherlock Holmes (Conan Doyle) Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass (Carroll) Foucault's Pendulum (Eco) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Belated joining post
You are psychic...I was going to ask for a bio! it is refreshing to find a computer scientist that honestly faces the brute biological reality of messy neuro-cells and their cognitive faculties and really lets it speak its story ... one more complex than mere symbol manipulation ...As an engineer I admit to the same experience... except I am going to build the AGI after the fashion of the experience thus obtained... dilettantry is not an option!... although if you are a multidisciplinary type (as it seems you areyou are necessarily delittantish, for there is no profession for it! cheers col Quoting David Nyman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Recent dialogues with Russell, plus discovering and finding helpful previous joining posts, prompts me to post this for reference purposes. I was born in 1950 in Glasgow Scotland of Anglo-Scottish parents, and come from Hungarian, Middle Eastern, Russian, and Polish ancestry insofar as I can trace it. Mixed, anyway. My formal academic background is also best described as 'mixed', but early on I always felt a bit inadequate compared to my teachers, who seemed to just 'know' the 'answers' somehow, because they wrote them straight on to the blackboard. Myself, I had to 'puzzle' them out by something like trial and error. Also, their 'explanations' seemed to lead only to more questions. This exasperated my teachers. One day (I guess I must have been about 9) I read a book of logic problems that not only contained the answers, but the author's account of how he'd reached them. Turns out he'd used trial and error! I remember it dawned on me like a bolt of lightning: Everybody thinks like this! And thus reassured, I went on in this way. There's a corollary to this tale. Many years later, I attended a seminar where the neuroscientist Karl Pribram was the principal presenter. I was so stimulated by the dialogue that I 'kidnapped' him afterwards by giving him a lift to the house where we'd both been invited to dinner. As he sat wearily in the passenger seat, I rambled on about this and that, and after a while this led to my 'sharing' my great 'Everybody thinks like that' insight. You're wrong. he said, and sank back into torpor. My heart sank. Then he sighed, and said: Only people who can think at all, think like that. My professional career spans 35+ years in computer systems development in the private sector, from machine code and plug-board days, through assembler and a wide variety of high-level languages. The hands-on part spanned more than 20 years and I worked originally in commercial applications development for systems vendors, focusing on elements of operating systems and failure and recovery methods. I developed early versions of 'net-change' manufacturing planning and forecasting systems, and from 1989, was an early participant in the nascent on- line (originally phone-based) retail financial sector. I became Head of Systems Architecture and Head of Information Analysis for the first UK on-line bank, and Head of IT for an on-line retail insurer. These days, I do part time IT and business consultancy, and dabble in topics like those on this list. I've now achieved the status I've always sought: self-employed dilettante. I can't recall exactly when my interest in AI and 'mind body' issues began, but it was re-stimulated by John Searle's ideas as presented in the 1984 BBC Reith Lectures, which got me furiously thinking and reading about functionalism and then-current mind-brain theories like Pribram's Holonomic theory. I reached a vague realisation that functionalism was incompatible with materialism, which is why I had a start of recognition when I encountered Bruno's arguments. But I've really spent the intervening period just 'dilettanting' around the related areas - philosophy of mind, epistemology, QM, cosmology, Darwinism, etc. - as my enthusiasm and energy waxes and wanes. I've read or skimmed quite a lot of the book list others have mentioned, but definitely need more rigour on the math and logic background. The existence of forums like this one has more or less kept my marriage intact when it might not have survived many further attempts to 'innocently' subvert ordinary conversations into 'epistomology' or some such nonsense. A few books that have triggered something or other, or that I often return to: The Fabric of Reality (Deutsch) The Conscious Mind (Chalmers) Wholeness and the Implicate Order (Bohm) The End of Time (Barbour) The Emperor's New Mind (Penrose) Theory of Nothing (Standish) Laws of Form (Spencer-Brown) The Quark and The Jaguar (Gell-Mann) Godel, Escher Bach (Hofstadter) The Mind's I (Hofstadter and Dennett) Consciousness Explained (Dennett) The Selfish Gene (Dawkins) The Blank Slate (Pinker) The Logic of Scientific Discovery (Popper) The Open Society and Its Enemies (Popper) The Man who mistook His Wife for a Hat (Sacks)
Re: Belated joining post
On Jun 27, 7:41 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you are necessarily delittantish, for there is no profession for it! None indeed. But for the amateur, all is done for love. Cheers D You are psychic...I was going to ask for a bio! it is refreshing to find a computer scientist that honestly faces the brute biological reality of messy neuro-cells and their cognitive faculties and really lets it speak its story ... one more complex than mere symbol manipulation ...As an engineer I admit to the same experience... except I am going to build the AGI after the fashion of the experience thus obtained... dilettantry is not an option!... although if you are a multidisciplinary type (as it seems you areyou are necessarily delittantish, for there is no profession for it! cheers col Quoting David Nyman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Recent dialogues with Russell, plus discovering and finding helpful previous joining posts, prompts me to post this for reference purposes. I was born in 1950 in Glasgow Scotland of Anglo-Scottish parents, and come from Hungarian, Middle Eastern, Russian, and Polish ancestry insofar as I can trace it. Mixed, anyway. My formal academic background is also best described as 'mixed', but early on I always felt a bit inadequate compared to my teachers, who seemed to just 'know' the 'answers' somehow, because they wrote them straight on to the blackboard. Myself, I had to 'puzzle' them out by something like trial and error. Also, their 'explanations' seemed to lead only to more questions. This exasperated my teachers. One day (I guess I must have been about 9) I read a book of logic problems that not only contained the answers, but the author's account of how he'd reached them. Turns out he'd used trial and error! I remember it dawned on me like a bolt of lightning: Everybody thinks like this! And thus reassured, I went on in this way. There's a corollary to this tale. Many years later, I attended a seminar where the neuroscientist Karl Pribram was the principal presenter. I was so stimulated by the dialogue that I 'kidnapped' him afterwards by giving him a lift to the house where we'd both been invited to dinner. As he sat wearily in the passenger seat, I rambled on about this and that, and after a while this led to my 'sharing' my great 'Everybody thinks like that' insight. You're wrong. he said, and sank back into torpor. My heart sank. Then he sighed, and said: Only people who can think at all, think like that. My professional career spans 35+ years in computer systems development in the private sector, from machine code and plug-board days, through assembler and a wide variety of high-level languages. The hands-on part spanned more than 20 years and I worked originally in commercial applications development for systems vendors, focusing on elements of operating systems and failure and recovery methods. I developed early versions of 'net-change' manufacturing planning and forecasting systems, and from 1989, was an early participant in the nascent on- line (originally phone-based) retail financial sector. I became Head of Systems Architecture and Head of Information Analysis for the first UK on-line bank, and Head of IT for an on-line retail insurer. These days, I do part time IT and business consultancy, and dabble in topics like those on this list. I've now achieved the status I've always sought: self-employed dilettante. I can't recall exactly when my interest in AI and 'mind body' issues began, but it was re-stimulated by John Searle's ideas as presented in the 1984 BBC Reith Lectures, which got me furiously thinking and reading about functionalism and then-current mind-brain theories like Pribram's Holonomic theory. I reached a vague realisation that functionalism was incompatible with materialism, which is why I had a start of recognition when I encountered Bruno's arguments. But I've really spent the intervening period just 'dilettanting' around the related areas - philosophy of mind, epistemology, QM, cosmology, Darwinism, etc. - as my enthusiasm and energy waxes and wanes. I've read or skimmed quite a lot of the book list others have mentioned, but definitely need more rigour on the math and logic background. The existence of forums like this one has more or less kept my marriage intact when it might not have survived many further attempts to 'innocently' subvert ordinary conversations into 'epistomology' or some such nonsense. A few books that have triggered something or other, or that I often return to: The Fabric of Reality (Deutsch) The Conscious Mind (Chalmers) Wholeness and the Implicate Order (Bohm) The End of Time (Barbour) The Emperor's New Mind (Penrose) Theory of Nothing (Standish) Laws of Form (Spencer-Brown) The Quark and The Jaguar (Gell-Mann) Godel, Escher Bach (Hofstadter) The Mind's
