Re: Can experiences be teleported ?
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal Eventually you will have to answer the question of what is teleportable. I have no doubt that someday matter can be transported, even information. Even energy. But the more important question to me is whether or not experiences (the stuff of life or consciousness) can be transported. A bus is designed to transport matter; magically, experience is transported along with it. Why should teleportation be different? -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Can experiences be teleported ?
On 07 Sep 2012, at 13:08, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal Eventually you will have to answer the question of what is teleportable. I have no doubt that someday matter can be transported, even information. Even energy. But the more important question to me is whether or not experiences (the stuff of life or consciousness) can be transported. It cannot as it is in Platonia. But Stathis just give a good answer, as it applies to the local relative manifestation of consciousness. When I study for an exam, I will relatively transported my local knowledge through the bus I will take. Comp makes matter itself not teletransportable, and QM confirms this: you cannot teleport matter in the quantum way, you still have to transport classically an irreductible set of classical bits. Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/7/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-06, 13:44:55 Subject: Re: Sane2004 Step One On 05 Sep 2012, at 08:38, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/5/2012 2:03 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 9/4/2012 10:07 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/5/2012 12:38 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 9/4/2012 8:59 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: Notice that both the duplication and the teleportation, as discussed, assume that the information content is exactly copyable. Not exactly. Only sufficiently accurately to maintain your consciousness. If the copy is not exact then functional equivalence is not exact either and this is fatal for the model. Then you should mourn the Stephen P. King of and hour ago. He's been fatally changed. Never, I am not the impermanent image on the world stage. I am the fire that casts the images. This is not qubits that are involved... The point here is that this comp model assume that Reality is, at is ground level, classical. It doesn't assume that. A fully quantum computation can be performed on a classical, i.e. Turing, computer. Bruno would just say it just takes a lower level of substitution. Yes, a classical computer can emulate a finite quantum computation given sufficient resources. This is not the same thing as the EPR effect that I am considering. The idea that I am considering is more like this: Consider the visible physical universe. We know from observation that not only is it open on one end and that it's expansion is accelerating. People want to put this off on some Dark Energy. I think that it is something else, driving it. Consider a classical computer that needs to emulate a quantum computation. It has to have even increasing resources to keep up with the QC if the QC is modeling an expanding universe. It we take Bruno's AR literally, where are these resources coming from? They are computations. They exist in Platonia. He's trying to explain matter, so he can't very well assume material resources. The world is made out of arithmetic, an infinite resource. Sure, but the explanation of the idea requires matter to be communicated. A slight oversight perhaps. But there is matter, in the comp theory. That is all what UDA explains, and what the Z and X logics axiomatizes. Let's turn the tables and make Reality Quantum in its essence. The classical computation may just be something that the QC is running. There's not difference as computations. You are correct but only in the absence of considerations of inputs and outputs and their concurrency. Abstract theory leaves out the obvious, but when it pretends to toss out the obvious, that is going to far. Matter is not obvious. What is most interesting is that the QC can run an arbitrary number of classical computations, all at the same time. The CC can only barely compute the emulation of a single QC. You are talking about QC and CC as though they were material computers with finite resources. Once you've assumed material resources you've lost any non-circular possibility of explaining them. No, I am pointing out that real computations require real resources. Only when we ignore this fact we can get away with floating castles in midair. Brent just point out that arithmetic contains infinite resource. What do you mean by real computations? Do you mean physical computations? Why would they lack resources? Bruno What if we have an infinite and eternal QC running infinitely many finite CCs and each of these CC's is trying to emulate a single QC. Map this idea out and look at the nice self- referential loop that this defines! You're confused. Maybe. I can handle being wrong. I learn from mistakes. Brent -- -- Onward! Stephen http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Can experiences be teleported ?
Hi Bruno Marchal Eventually you will have to answer the question of what is teleportable. I have no doubt that someday matter can be transported, even information. Even energy. But the more important question to me is whether or not experiences (the stuff of life or consciousness) can be transported. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/7/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-06, 13:44:55 Subject: Re: Sane2004 Step One On 05 Sep 2012, at 08:38, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/5/2012 2:03 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 9/4/2012 10:07 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 9/5/2012 12:38 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 9/4/2012 8:59 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: Notice that both the duplication and the teleportation, as discussed, assume that the information content is exactly copyable. Not exactly. Only sufficiently accurately to maintain your consciousness. If the copy is not exact then functional equivalence is not exact either and this is fatal for the model. Then you should mourn the Stephen P. King of and hour ago. He's been fatally changed. Never, I am not the impermanent image on the world stage. I am the fire that casts the images. This is not qubits that are involved... The point here is that this comp model assume that Reality is, at is ground level, classical. It doesn't assume that. A fully quantum computation can be performed on a classical, i.e. Turing, computer. Bruno would just say it just takes a lower level of substitution. Yes, a classical computer can emulate a finite quantum computation given sufficient resources. This is not the same thing as the EPR effect that I am considering. The idea that I am considering is more like this: Consider the visible physical universe. We know from observation that not only is it open on one end and that it's expansion is accelerating. People want to put this off on some Dark Energy. I think that it is something else, driving it. Consider a classical computer that needs to emulate a quantum computation. It has to have even increasing resources to keep up with the QC if the QC is modeling an expanding universe. It we take Bruno's AR literally, where are these resources coming from? They are computations. They exist in Platonia. He's trying to explain matter, so he can't very well assume material resources. The world is made out of arithmetic, an infinite resource. Sure, but the explanation of the idea requires matter to be communicated. A slight oversight perhaps. But there is matter, in the comp theory. That is all what UDA explains, and what the Z and X logics axiomatizes. Let's turn the tables and make Reality Quantum in its essence. The classical computation may just be something that the QC is running. There's not difference as computations. You are correct but only in the absence of considerations of inputs and outputs and their concurrency. Abstract theory leaves out the obvious, but when it pretends to toss out the obvious, that is going to far. Matter is not obvious. What is most interesting is that the QC can run an arbitrary number of classical computations, all at the same time. The CC can only barely compute the emulation of a single QC. You are talking about QC and CC as though they were material computers with finite resources. Once you've assumed material resources you've lost any non-circular possibility of explaining them. No, I am pointing out that real computations require real resources. Only when we ignore this fact we can get away with floating castles in midair. Brent just point out that arithmetic contains infinite resource. What do you mean by real computations? Do you mean physical computations? Why would they lack resources? Bruno What if we have an infinite and eternal QC running infinitely many finite CCs and each of these CC's is trying to emulate a single QC. Map this idea out and look at the nice self-referential loop that this defines! You're confused. Maybe. I can handle being wrong. I learn from mistakes. Brent -- -- Onward! Stephen http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
