Re: Evolution by Natural Selection
On 12/7/2025 6:13 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Dec 6, 2025 at 7:34 PM Alan Grayson wrote: /> Lately, I've watching videos about the animal kingdom, and I am beginning to question Darwin's claim of evolution by natural selection. I wonder; how does this explain the appearance of defensive horns on some animals, like the Rhinoceros, and not on others, such as the Zebra? //Does Natural Selection mean that random changes in an animal's body, such as a very small horn on a Rhonoceros initially, gives it some minor competitive advantage, and that horn grows bigger over time, again randomly, until it gets large as we see today?/ *If a rhinohas a gene for producing a slightly larger horn and that gives it a small competitive advantage, either by becoming a better fighter or because female rhinos think big horns are sexy (sexual selection is the reason male peacocks have such ridiculously large tail feathers) then that gene is more likely to enter the next generation. The reason the horn on a rhino is not even larger is because Evolution doesn't have infinite resources at its disposal, so if you do more of one thing then you must do less of some other thing, and that other thing may have more survival value that a larger horn.* /> And yet on other specie of plant eaters, like Zebra, no such process occurred? / *Natural Selectioncan only select from among the genes that are available* That's a little misleading since /the genes that are available/ include new random mutations. *, apparently in horse-like animals such as zebras random mutation never produced a proto horn gene, and that's why Evolution never produced a unicorn, although if random chance had been slightly different it would have. * Ironically, nature did produce a unicorn. It's the rhinoceros, which Pliny the Elder described in his book "Natural History" which latter fed into legends of a unicorn. *However the ancestors of zebras did have a gene, produced by random mutation, that no rino had, that caused a slight variation in the color of its fur, and that gave a zebra a slight advantage because it turns out thatdisease carrying tsetse flies and horseflies have trouble landing on striped surfacesbecause the stripes interferes with the fliesvisual systemscausing them to abort landingon them.* *If you're really interested in this sort of thing you should read (or listen to on Audible) Richard Dawkinswonderful book "The Selfish Gene", it's one of the 3 or 4 best books I've ever read in my life, and I read a lot. * I second that recommendation. Brent * * *John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* * * ax9 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv33gRmBe%3DU9ZJsgHWcfCjj4Zx%2B1UdEctLCkB6SGMAwdTg%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv33gRmBe%3DU9ZJsgHWcfCjj4Zx%2B1UdEctLCkB6SGMAwdTg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2f1fba36-ca18-4993-ae5e-d9db873cebc3%40gmail.com.
Re: Evolution by Natural Selection
On Sat, Dec 6, 2025 at 7:34 PM Alan Grayson wrote: > *> Lately, I've watching videos about the animal kingdom, and I am > beginning to question Darwin's claim of evolution by natural selection. I > wonder; how does this explain the appearance of defensive horns on some > animals, like the Rhinoceros, and not on others, such as the Zebra? **Does > Natural Selection mean that random changes in an animal's body, such as a > very small horn on a Rhonoceros initially, gives it some minor competitive > advantage, and that horn grows bigger over time, again randomly, until it > gets large as we see today?* *If a rhino has a gene for producing a slightly larger horn and that gives it a small competitive advantage, either by becoming a better fighter or because female rhinos think big horns are sexy (sexual selection is the reason male peacocks have such ridiculously large tail feathers) then that gene is more likely to enter the next generation. The reason the horn on a rhino is not even larger is because Evolution doesn't have infinite resources at its disposal, so if you do more of one thing then you must do less of some other thing, and that other thing may have more survival value that a larger horn.* > *> And yet on other specie of plant eaters, like Zebra, no such process > occurred? * > *Natural Selection can only select from among the genes that are available, apparently in horse-like animals such as zebras random mutation never produced a proto horn gene, and that's why Evolution never produced a unicorn, although if random chance had been slightly different it would have. However the ancestors of zebras did have a gene, produced by random mutation, that no rino had, that caused a slight variation in the color of its fur, and that gave a zebra a slight advantage because it turns out that disease carrying tsetse flies and horseflies have trouble landing on striped surfaces because the stripes interferes with the flies visual systems causing them to abort landing on them.* *If you're really interested in this sort of thing you should read (or listen to on Audible) Richard Dawkins wonderful book "The Selfish Gene", it's one of the 3 or 4 best books I've ever read in my life, and I read a lot. * *John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* ax9 > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv33gRmBe%3DU9ZJsgHWcfCjj4Zx%2B1UdEctLCkB6SGMAwdTg%40mail.gmail.com.
Re: Evolution by Natural Selection
On Saturday, December 6, 2025 at 5:34:48 PM UTC-7 Alan Grayson wrote: On Thursday, December 4, 2025 at 8:21:03 AM UTC-7 Alan Grayson wrote: Lately, I've watching videos about the animal kingdom, and I am beginning to question Darwin's claim of evolution by natural selection. I wonder; how does this explain the appearance of defensive horns on some animals, like the Rhinoceros, and not on others, such as the Zebra? AG Does Natural Selection mean that random changes in an animal's body, such as a very small horn on a RhInoceros initially, gives it some minor competitive advantage, and that horn grows bigger over time, again randomly, until it gets large as we see today? And yet on other specie of plant eaters, like Zebra, no such process occurred? The process IMO looks teleological, that is, intentional in relation to interactions with the environment, not random. AG That is, it seems like a Rhinoceros developed a horn (actually two horns), because it needed it, whereas Zebras never developed horns because they ddin't need them. AG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a01a4131-3dc5-439e-98b2-7117d2a654den%40googlegroups.com.
Re: Evolution by Natural Selection
On Thursday, December 4, 2025 at 8:21:03 AM UTC-7 Alan Grayson wrote: Lately, I've watching videos about the animal kingdom, and I am beginning to question Darwin's claim of evolution by natural selection. I wonder; how does this explain the appearance of defensive horns on some animals, like the Rhinoceros, and not on others, such as the Zebra? AG Does Natural Selection mean that random changes in an animal's body, such as a very small horn on a Rhonoceros initially, gives it some minor competitive advantage, and that horn grows bigger over time, again randomly, until it gets large as we see today? And yet on other specie of plant eaters, like Zebra, no such process occurred? The process IMO looks teleological, that is, intentional in relation to interactions with the environment, not random. AG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/bd780e3a-609f-4be6-955d-f75a985f61d0n%40googlegroups.com.
Evolution by Natural Selection
Lately, I've watching videos about the animal kingdom, and I am beginning to question Darwin's claim of evolution by natural selection. I wonder; how does this explain the appearance of defensive horns on some animals, like the Rhinoceros, and not on others, such as the Zebra? AG , and not on others, such as zebras? AG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d8227649-0fe5-42a1-9c6b-e4185c4ac124n%40googlegroups.com.
