Re: Is reality unknowable?

2003-10-27 Thread CMR
What are the philosophical implications of unsolvable mathematical problems? Does this mean that mathematical reality, hence physical reality, is ultimately unknowable? It's not clear to me that the root know is terribly useful here; IMHO there is regularity and there is the random (whether

Re: Is reality unknowable?

2003-10-27 Thread CMR
CMR wrote: there is regularity and there is the random (whether it be absolute or effectively so - both are equivalent from the receiving end); the mere fact that we are having this discussion indicates some level of regularity in the interaction; but there is randomness as well; I do

Re: Is reality unknowable?

2003-10-27 Thread Joao Leao
This infamous "definition" is circunscribed to a theory, as in "we say that a physical theory has an EPR if,..." Mathematical reality is not the output of (mathematical) theories but usually its input. But I think mathematical reality does not necessary equate to mathematical truth, nor does

Re: Is reality unknowable?

2003-10-26 Thread scerir
Hal Finney If, from a set of axioms and rules of inference, we can produce a valid proof of a theorem, then the theorem is true, within that axiomatic system. I'd suggest that this notion of provability is analogous to the reality of physics. Provable theorems are what we know, within a

Re: Is reality unknowable?

2003-10-25 Thread Matt King
Hey all, Nice to see some activity on this list again. I think the filament's blown, but then again I'm a physicist :-) Matt. Norman Samish wrote: Perhaps you've heard of Thompson's Lamp. This is an ideal lamp, capable of infinite switching speed and using electricity that

Re: Is reality unknowable?

2003-10-25 Thread John M
] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 8:22 AM Subject: Re: Is reality unknowable? Hey all, Nice to see some activity on this list again. I think the filament's blown, but then again I'm a physicist :-) Matt. Norman Samish wrote: Perhaps you've heard

Re: Is reality unknowable?

2003-10-25 Thread Hal Finney
It's also possible that the question, although seemingly made up of ordinary English language words used in a logical way, is actually incoherent. If I say, proposition P is both true and false, that is a sentence made up of English words, but it does not really make sense. I could then demand

Re: Is reality unknowable?

2003-10-25 Thread scerir
If, without in any way disturbing a system, we can predict with certainty the value of a physical quantity, there exists an element of reality corresponding to this physical quantity, wrote once EPR. (Of course the strong term here is *predict*, because prediction is based on something, a theory,

Re: Is reality unknowable?

2003-10-25 Thread Stephen Paul King
, even within Logic. Kindest regards, Stephen - Original Message - From: Hal Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 11:51 AM Subject: Re: Is reality unknowable? It's also possible that the question, although seemingly made up

Re: Is reality unknowable?

2003-10-25 Thread Hal Finney
Scerir writes: If, without in any way disturbing a system, we can predict with certainty the value of a physical quantity, there exists an element of reality corresponding to this physical quantity, wrote once EPR. [...] Is there a similar definition, in math? If, from a set of axioms and

Re: Is reality unknowable?

2003-10-25 Thread Sanford Aranoff
PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 11:51 AM Subject: Re: Is reality unknowable? It's also possible that the question, although seemingly made up of ordinary English language words used in a logical way, is actually incoherent. If I say

Re: Is reality unknowable?

2003-10-25 Thread Hal Finney
Too many messages. I cannot read them all. Is there a user group where these things are more organized? Hope so, else I'll have to block these messages. This mailing list is archived at http://www.escribe.com/science/theory/, as well as

Is reality unknowable?

2003-10-24 Thread Norman Samish
Perhaps you've heard of Thompson's Lamp. This is an ideal lamp, capable of infinite switching speed and using electricity that travels at infinite speed. At time zero it is on. After one minute it is turned off. After 1/2 minute it is turned back on. After 1/4 minute it is turned off. And so