Re: Absolute relativism

[Francesco D'Isa]

Dear John, thank you for reading my text!


> ​> ​
>> Nagarjuna’s thought is based on the idea that nothing exists
>> intrinsically. Everything exists only relationship to something else;
>
>
> ​
> Well, if there were only one object in the universe it would be
> meaningless to say that object had properties, and
> ​ ​
> absolute relativism could not exist because there would be nothing to
> relate to it.
>
>
A very interesting point: of course "if there were only one object in the
universe" postulates already two objects (even much more, but let's say
two: object IN the universe).
Let's say just one object: it's impossible to state it, because a thing
cant' be anything (an object) without some other related to it, being every
identity the description of a relation.


> ​> ​
>> Absolute relativism, however, as we have said at the beginning, presents
>> us with some serious problems.
>
>
> ​
> Very true. Einstein certainly did not believe that everything was
> relative, he insisted that the speed of light (aka the speed of causality)
> was fundamental and never changed, in fact before deciding on the word
>  "relativity" he considered calling his idea "the theory of invariance".
>
> ​> ​
>> The concept of causality can be misleading, because it always brings us
>> to consider only a small portion of the causal network in order to obtain a
>> prediction.
>
>
> ​And it also assumes that every event have a cause, but there is no
> logical reason why that must always be true, and indeed modern physics
> tells us it is not always true.​
>
>

I agree! Of course Einstein's was not absolute relativism.


>
> ​> ​
>> Does this ballerina spin right or left?
>
>
> ​That is a interesting example because, although Einstein didn't know it
> when he came up with his theory, it turns out that the speed of light isn't
> the only thing that is absolute;
>
> ​there is a absolute and fundamental difference between spinning lest and
> spinning right.​
>
> In 1956
> ​ ​
> Chien-Shiung Wu
> ​ ​
> cooled radioactive
> ​ ​
> cobalt-60 atoms
> ​ ​
> to near absolute zero and placed them in a strong magnetic field so that
> all the cobalt atoms were spinning in the same direction.
> ​ ​
> She found that about 60% of the gamma rays
> ​ ​
> the cobalt produced
> ​ ​
> were emitted in one direction
> ​ ​
> and
> ​ ​
> 40%
> ​ ​
> in the opposite direction. This lack of symmetry surprised almost everyone
> except for
> ​ ​
> Tsung-Dao Lee
> ​ ​
> and
> Chen-Ning Yang
> ​ who predicted it and got the Nobel Prize for doing so.​
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_experiment#The_experiment
>

This is very interesting, thank you for sharing!

Bests,
Francesco

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Absolute relativism

[Francesco D'Isa]

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 3:01:08 PM UTC+1, telmo_menezes wrote:
>
> I find it interesting that you resort to an image. I suspect that what you 
> are trying to communicate cannot be fully communicated with language. That 
> is perhaps what art is for?
>
>
Well, images and art are a language as well ;)

(Of course, I'm used to take advantage of every mean of communication which 
I know, but the image here was just an addendum to the idea)

Thank you again, bests!
Francesco

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Absolute relativism

[John Clark]

 Francesco D'Isa  wrote in:

https://fqxi.org/data/essay-contest-files/DIsa_Nothing_is_fundamental.pdf


​> ​
> Nagarjuna’s thought is based on the idea that nothing exists
> intrinsically. Everything exists only relationship to something else;


​
Well, if there were only one object in the universe it would be meaningless
to say that object had properties, and
​ ​
absolute relativism could not exist because there would be nothing to
relate to it.

​> ​
> Absolute relativism, however, as we have said at the beginning, presents
> us with some serious problems.


​
Very true. Einstein certainly did not believe that everything was relative,
he insisted that the speed of light (aka the speed of causality) was
fundamental and never changed, in fact before deciding on the word
 "relativity" he considered calling his idea "the theory of invariance".

​> ​
> The concept of causality can be misleading, because it always brings us to
> consider only a small portion of the causal network in order to obtain a
> prediction.


​And it also assumes that every event have a cause, but there is no logical
reason why that must always be true, and indeed modern physics tells us it
is not always true.​


​> ​
> Does this ballerina spin right or left?


​That is a interesting example because, although Einstein didn't know it
when he came up with his theory, it turns out that the speed of light isn't
the only thing that is absolute;

​there is a absolute and fundamental difference between spinning lest and
spinning right.​

In 1956
​ ​
Chien-Shiung Wu
​ ​
cooled radioactive
​ ​
cobalt-60 atoms
​ ​
to near absolute zero and placed them in a strong magnetic field so that
all the cobalt atoms were spinning in the same direction.
​ ​
She found that about 60% of the gamma rays
​ ​
the cobalt produced
​ ​
were emitted in one direction
​ ​
and
​ ​
40%
​ ​
in the opposite direction. This lack of symmetry surprised almost everyone
except for
​ ​
Tsung-Dao Lee
​ ​
and
Chen-Ning Yang
​ who predicted it and got the Nobel Prize for doing so.​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_experiment#The_experiment

​John K Clark​

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Absolute relativism

[Telmo Menezes]

I find it interesting that you resort to an image. I suspect that what you
are trying to communicate cannot be fully communicated with language. That
is perhaps what art is for?

Cheers
Telmo.

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Francesco D'Isa 
wrote:

> Hello Telmo, thank you very much for welcoming and reading! I'm very glad
> you enjoyed the text and for your comment on it.
>
> Of course that's the hardest part. I agree that the argument in §6 is
> circular someway, but I'd tell that its circularity is broken by its
> opening to an infinite regress, because the relativities are not at the
> same level. Speaking graphically, I see it like this:
>
>
> 
>
>
> All the best!
>
> Francesco
>
> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 at 11:42:41 AM UTC+1, telmo_menezes wrote:
>>
>> Hello Francesco,
>>
>> Welcome to the group!
>>
>> I like your essay and essentially agree with what you say. My only
>> problem is with your treatment of the principle of non-contradition. I
>> feel that your reasoning there becomes circular: all truths are
>> relative, so the principle of non-contradition is also relative, so
>> all truths are relative... Not that I think you are wrong, but I do
>> think that the argument could be stronger.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Telmo.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 8:53 PM, Francesco D'Isa
>>  wrote:
>> > Hello, I found this group through the book Theory of Nothing – both a
>> very
>> > pleasant discovery. I would like to submit to your potential curiosity
>> this
>> > essay about Absolute relativism. It's part of a bigger work in progress
>> > whose conclusions are very close to this group's.
>> >
>> > https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3044
>> >
>> > Essay Abstract
>> >
>> > Starting from a physical and philosophical interpretation of
>> Nagarjuna’s
>> > theory, this paper will suggest that the idea of a system of
>> “fundamental”
>> > rules is misleading, because of every entity’s intrinsically relational
>> > nature. Following this, the paper will examine a re-definition of the
>> > concept of “fundamental”, through the idea of absolute relativism,
>> whose
>> > paradoxical nature (“the fact that every truth is relative is an
>> absolute
>> > truth?”) will be dealt with through an additional paradox, called the
>> > “super-liar paradox”.
>> >
>> > Author Bio
>> >
>> > Francesco D’Isa (Firenze, Italy, 1980), by education a philosopher
>> > (Graduated at the University of Firenze, Italy) and a visual artist,
>> after
>> > his debut "I." (Nottetempo, 2011) has published novels such as "Anna"
>> > (effequ, 2014), "Ultimo piano" (Imprimatur, 2015), "La Stanza di
>> Therese"
>> > (Tunué, 2017) and essays for Hoepli and Newton Compton. He is editorial
>> > director of "L’Indiscreto", and he writes and draws for several
>> magazines.
>> >
>> > All the best, and thank you for sharing your thoughts,
>> > Francesco
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> > "Everything List" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an
>> > email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com.
>> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Absolute relativism

[Francesco D'Isa]

Hello Telmo, thank you very much for welcoming and reading! I'm very glad 
you enjoyed the text and for your comment on it.

Of course that's the hardest part. I agree that the argument in §6 is 
circular someway, but I'd tell that its circularity is broken by its 
opening to an infinite regress, because the relativities are not at the 
same level. Speaking graphically, I see it like this:




All the best!

Francesco

On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 at 11:42:41 AM UTC+1, telmo_menezes wrote:
>
> Hello Francesco, 
>
> Welcome to the group! 
>
> I like your essay and essentially agree with what you say. My only 
> problem is with your treatment of the principle of non-contradition. I 
> feel that your reasoning there becomes circular: all truths are 
> relative, so the principle of non-contradition is also relative, so 
> all truths are relative... Not that I think you are wrong, but I do 
> think that the argument could be stronger. 
>
> Cheers, 
> Telmo. 
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 8:53 PM, Francesco D'Isa 
>  wrote: 
> > Hello, I found this group through the book Theory of Nothing – both a 
> very 
> > pleasant discovery. I would like to submit to your potential curiosity 
> this 
> > essay about Absolute relativism. It's part of a bigger work in progress 
> > whose conclusions are very close to this group's. 
> > 
> > https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3044 
> > 
> > Essay Abstract 
> > 
> > Starting from a physical and philosophical interpretation of Nagarjuna’s 
> > theory, this paper will suggest that the idea of a system of 
> “fundamental” 
> > rules is misleading, because of every entity’s intrinsically relational 
> > nature. Following this, the paper will examine a re-definition of the 
> > concept of “fundamental”, through the idea of absolute relativism, whose 
> > paradoxical nature (“the fact that every truth is relative is an 
> absolute 
> > truth?”) will be dealt with through an additional paradox, called the 
> > “super-liar paradox”. 
> > 
> > Author Bio 
> > 
> > Francesco D’Isa (Firenze, Italy, 1980), by education a philosopher 
> > (Graduated at the University of Firenze, Italy) and a visual artist, 
> after 
> > his debut "I." (Nottetempo, 2011) has published novels such as "Anna" 
> > (effequ, 2014), "Ultimo piano" (Imprimatur, 2015), "La Stanza di 
> Therese" 
> > (Tunué, 2017) and essays for Hoepli and Newton Compton. He is editorial 
> > director of "L’Indiscreto", and he writes and draws for several 
> magazines. 
> > 
> > All the best, and thank you for sharing your thoughts, 
> > Francesco 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups 
> > "Everything List" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an 
> > email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com 
> . 
> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Absolute relativism

[Telmo Menezes]

Hello Francesco,

Welcome to the group!

I like your essay and essentially agree with what you say. My only
problem is with your treatment of the principle of non-contradition. I
feel that your reasoning there becomes circular: all truths are
relative, so the principle of non-contradition is also relative, so
all truths are relative... Not that I think you are wrong, but I do
think that the argument could be stronger.

Cheers,
Telmo.




On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 8:53 PM, Francesco D'Isa
 wrote:
> Hello, I found this group through the book Theory of Nothing – both a very
> pleasant discovery. I would like to submit to your potential curiosity this
> essay about Absolute relativism. It's part of a bigger work in progress
> whose conclusions are very close to this group's.
>
> https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3044
>
> Essay Abstract
>
> Starting from a physical and philosophical interpretation of Nagarjuna’s
> theory, this paper will suggest that the idea of a system of “fundamental”
> rules is misleading, because of every entity’s intrinsically relational
> nature. Following this, the paper will examine a re-definition of the
> concept of “fundamental”, through the idea of absolute relativism, whose
> paradoxical nature (“the fact that every truth is relative is an absolute
> truth?”) will be dealt with through an additional paradox, called the
> “super-liar paradox”.
>
> Author Bio
>
> Francesco D’Isa (Firenze, Italy, 1980), by education a philosopher
> (Graduated at the University of Firenze, Italy) and a visual artist, after
> his debut "I." (Nottetempo, 2011) has published novels such as "Anna"
> (effequ, 2014), "Ultimo piano" (Imprimatur, 2015), "La Stanza di Therese"
> (Tunué, 2017) and essays for Hoepli and Newton Compton. He is editorial
> director of "L’Indiscreto", and he writes and draws for several magazines.
>
> All the best, and thank you for sharing your thoughts,
> Francesco
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.