Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-23 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 23 Nov 2013, at 07:09, Chris de Morsella wrote: From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of meekerdb Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 9:11 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Belief vs Truth On 11/22/2013 3:24 PM, John

RE: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-23 Thread Chris de Morsella
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 1:14 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Belief vs Truth On 23 Nov 2013, at 07:09, Chris de Morsella wrote: From

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-23 Thread Alberto G. Corona
*To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: Belief vs Truth On 11/22/2013 3:24 PM, John Mikes wrote: Bruno: Brent's dichotomy - as you pointed out - about exist and true may go deeper in my opinion: If we *THINK *of something: it DOES *exist* indeed *(in our mind)* but may not be true. I

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-23 Thread Alberto G. Corona
:11 PM *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: Belief vs Truth On 11/22/2013 3:24 PM, John Mikes wrote: Bruno: Brent's dichotomy - as you pointed out - about exist and true may go deeper in my opinion: If we *THINK *of something: it DOES *exist* indeed *(in our mind

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-23 Thread Bruno Marchal
:11 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Belief vs Truth On 11/22/2013 3:24 PM, John Mikes wrote: Bruno: Brent's dichotomy - as you pointed out - about exist and true may go deeper in my opinion: If we THINK of something: it DOES exist indeed (in our mind) but may not be true. I

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-23 Thread Bruno Marchal
] On Behalf Of meekerdb Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 9:11 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Belief vs Truth On 11/22/2013 3:24 PM, John Mikes wrote: Bruno: Brent's dichotomy - as you pointed out - about exist and true may go deeper in my opinion: If we THINK of something

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-22 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Nov 2013, at 19:28, meekerdb wrote: On 11/21/2013 1:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Let´s go to a human level: in evolutionary terms, I would say that truth is a belief hardcoded by natural selection. This is self-defeating or circular. You need the truth of natural selection to make

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-22 Thread John Mikes
Bruno: Brent's dichotomy - as you pointed out - about exist and true may go deeper in my opinion: If we *THINK *of something: it DOES *exist* indeed *(in our mind)* but may not be true. I refrain from calling T R U E anything in our restsricted (partial) knowledge capability. WE THINK IT IS

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-22 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 23 Nov 2013, at 00:24, John Mikes wrote: Bruno: Brent's dichotomy - as you pointed out - about exist and true may go deeper in my opinion: If we THINK of something: it DOES exist indeed (in our mind) but may not be true. I refrain from calling T R U E anything in our restsricted

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-22 Thread meekerdb
On 11/22/2013 3:24 PM, John Mikes wrote: Bruno: Brent's dichotomy - as you pointed out - about exist and true may go deeper in my opinion: If we *_THINK _*of something: it DOES *_exist_* indeed */(in our mind)/* but may not be true. I refrain from calling T R U E anything in our restsricted

RE: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-22 Thread Chris de Morsella
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 9:11 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Belief vs Truth On 11/22/2013 3:24 PM, John Mikes wrote: Bruno: Brent's dichotomy - as you

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Nov 2013, at 21:57, Alberto G. Corona wrote: To say that F = m . a or e= m c2 as truth it is necessary to accept certain beliefs. Belief that at the next moment the laws will not change for example. e=mc^2 is an interesting theory (belief), or an interesting theorem in an

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-21 Thread Alberto G. Corona
2013/11/21 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 20 Nov 2013, at 21:57, Alberto G. Corona wrote: To say that F = m . a or e= m c2 as truth it is necessary to accept certain beliefs. Belief that at the next moment the laws will not change for example. e=mc^2 is an interesting theory

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Nov 2013, at 11:29, Alberto G. Corona wrote: 2013/11/21 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 20 Nov 2013, at 21:57, Alberto G. Corona wrote: To say that F = m . a or e= m c2 as truth it is necessary to accept certain beliefs. Belief that at the next moment the laws will not

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Nov 2013, at 12:17, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Nov 2013, at 11:29, Alberto G. Corona wrote: The material phenomena are events in the mind. That is partially true in the comp theory. But mind and matter emerges from the existence of [READ OR] absence of solution(s) to

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-21 Thread meekerdb
On 11/21/2013 1:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Let´s go to a human level: in evolutionary terms, I would say that truth is a belief hardcoded by natural selection. This is self-defeating or circular. You need the truth of natural selection to make sense of it. That seems to confound truth

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-11-20 Thread Alberto G. Corona
To say that F = m . a or e= m c2 as truth it is necessary to accept certain beliefs. Belief that at the next moment the laws will not change for example. Let´s go to a human level: in evolutionary terms, I would say that truth is a belief hardcoded by natural selection. Truth would say, is

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-06-03 Thread John Mikes
How about Tao? JM On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: I have to respond that in Judaism in the high holiday service there is a prayer praising doubt. I think that may be unique to Judaism? Richard On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Bruno Marchal

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-06-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Jun 2013, at 16:08, John Mikes wrote: How about Tao? JM On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: I have to respond that in Judaism in the high holiday service there is a prayer praising doubt. I think that may be unique to Judaism? Richard I

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-06-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Jun 2013, at 01:41, Stephen Paul King wrote: How do we integrate empirical data into Bpp? Technically, by restricting p to the leaves of the UD* (the true, and thus provable, sigma_1 sentences). Then to get the physics (the probability measure à-la-UDA), you can do the same with

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-06-02 Thread Richard Ruquist
I have to respond that in Judaism in the high holiday service there is a prayer praising doubt. I think that may be unique to Judaism? Richard On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Russell wrote: *...When it comes to Bp p capturing the notion of

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-06-02 Thread Stephen Paul King
How do we integrate empirical data into Bpp? On Saturday, June 1, 2013 3:41:56 PM UTC-4, JohnM wrote: Russell wrote: *...When it comes to Bp p capturing the notion of knowledge, I can see it captures the notion of mathematical knowledge, ie true theorems, as opposed to true conjectures,

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-06-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 May 2013, at 19:43, meekerdb wrote: On 5/31/2013 10:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2013, at 01:19, meekerdb wrote: On 5/30/2013 3:43 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:04:13PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: You mean unprovable? I get confused because it seems

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-06-01 Thread John Mikes
Brent, thanks for your clear ideas - not controversial to what I try to explain in my poor wordings. No proof is valid, or true. Applicable, maybe. In our 'makebilieve' world-model many facets SEEM true in our terms of explanation, i.e. using conventional science and wisdom. Mathematicians are

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-05-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 May 2013, at 01:19, meekerdb wrote: On 5/30/2013 3:43 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:04:13PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: You mean unprovable? I get confused because it seems that you sometimes use Bp to mean proves p and sometimes believes p To a mathematician,

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-05-31 Thread meekerdb
On 5/31/2013 10:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 May 2013, at 01:19, meekerdb wrote: On 5/30/2013 3:43 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:04:13PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: You mean unprovable? I get confused because it seems that you sometimes use Bp to mean proves p and

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-05-31 Thread Kim Jones
On 01/06/2013, at 3:35 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: All humans have many beliefs. A genuine scientist just know that those are beliefs, and not knowledge (even if they hope their belief to be true). So they will provides axioms/theories and derive from that, and compare with

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-05-30 Thread meekerdb
On 5/30/2013 3:43 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:04:13PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: You mean unprovable? I get confused because it seems that you sometimes use Bp to mean proves p and sometimes believes p To a mathematician, belief and proof are the same thing. Not

Re: Belief vs Truth

2013-05-30 Thread Russell Standish
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 04:19:53PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: On 5/30/2013 3:43 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:04:13PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: You mean unprovable? I get confused because it seems that you sometimes use Bp to mean proves p and sometimes believes p To a