Re: Goldilocks world

2005-11-23 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi John, Le 22-nov.-05, à 22:45, John M a écrit : Bruno: Why does Jesse - with your aproval - deny from the omniscient the knowledge of falls info - maybe WITH the notion that it is falls? I am not omniscient - believe it or not - but even I know a lot of falls info. By (standard)

Re: Goldilocks world

2005-11-23 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Stephen, Le 23-nov.-05, à 01:29, Stephen Paul King a écrit : Does this assertion not assume a particular method of coding the true grammatical statements? Could we not show that if we allow for all possible encodings, symbol systems, etc. that *any* sequence will code a true

RE: Goldilocks world

2005-11-23 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Jesse Mazer writes: Can we talk about knowledge or intelligence in a similar way? A rock is completely stupid and ignorant. A human has some knowledge and some intelligence (the Goldilocks case). God is said to be omniscient: infinitely knowlegeable, infinitely intelligent. Doesn't this mean

Re: Goldilocks world

2005-11-23 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
George Levy writes: Kim Jones wrote: can God in her omniscient, omnipotent wisdom create a rock that is so heavy even God herself cannot lift it? ;-) Kim Jones Along these lines I found a way to resolve the theist and the atheist viewpoints: It is simply to assert that god is so big

RE: Goldilocks world

2005-11-22 Thread Jesse Mazer
Stathis Papaioannou wrote: George Levy writes: Along the line of Jorge Luis Borges a blackboard covered in chalk contains the library of Babel (everything) but no information. Similarly a white board covered with ink also contains no information. Interestingly, information is minimized or

Re: Goldilocks world

2005-11-22 Thread George Levy
Kim Jones wrote: can God in her omniscient, omnipotent wisdom create a rock that is so heavy even God herself cannot lift it? ;-) Kim Jones Along these lines I found a way to resolve the theist and the atheist viewpoints: It is simply to assert that god is so big and powerful

Re: Goldilocks world

2005-11-22 Thread Russell Standish
Nice one George! On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 10:46:47AM -0800, George Levy wrote: Kim Jones wrote: can God in her omniscient, omnipotent wisdom create a rock that is so heavy even God herself cannot lift it? ;-) Kim Jones Along these lines I found a way to resolve the theist and the

Re: Goldilocks world

2005-11-22 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear Jesse, Stathis, Bruno et al, - Original Message - From: Jesse Mazer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; everything-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 4:41 AM Subject: RE: Goldilocks world Stathis Papaioannou wrote: George Levy writes: Along the line

Re: Goldilocks world

2005-11-22 Thread Jesse Mazer
From: Stephen Paul King [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: everything-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Goldilocks world Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:29:39 -0500 Dear Jesse, Stathis, Bruno et al, - Original Message - From: Jesse Mazer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; everything-list@eskimo.com

Re: Goldilocks world

2005-11-22 Thread Kim Jones
DAMN! Russell replied before me!! I was going to say - George you're a bloody genius. Stand up and take a bow. Wait till I tell his Reverend the Archbishop of thingummy this! He won't believe it I'll bet Onward! as Stephen goes Kim On 23/11/2005, at 8:37 AM, Russell Standish wrote:

RE: Goldilocks world

2005-11-21 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
George Levy writes: Along the line of Jorge Luis Borges a blackboard covered in chalk contains the library of Babel (everything) but no information. Similarly a white board covered with ink also contains no information. Interestingly, information is minimized or actually goes to zero when the

Re: Goldilocks world

2005-11-21 Thread Russell Standish
Yes - I believe this is the logical problem with omniscient beings. On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 12:28:16PM +1100, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: George Levy writes: Along the line of Jorge Luis Borges a blackboard covered in chalk contains the library of Babel (everything) but no information.

Re: Goldilocks world

2005-11-21 Thread Kim Jones
can God in her omniscient, omnipotent wisdom create a rock that is so heavy even God herself cannot lift it? ;-) Kim Jones On 22/11/2005, at 12:45 PM, Russell Standish wrote: Yes - I believe this is the logical problem with omniscient beings. On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 12:28:16PM +1100,

Re: Goldilocks world

2005-11-21 Thread Russell Standish
That is the logical argument against omnipotence. IIRC, Aquinas knew of these arguments, and so I gather omnipotence and omniscience are not actually part of christian theological creed. Disclaimer: IANAC (I am not a christian) :) On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 04:57:41PM +1100, Kim Jones wrote: can

Re: Goldilocks world

2005-11-21 Thread Quentin Anciaux
Hi, IANAC too, but I think it is part of it. When I talk about the little paradoxe of the rock to some christians they only say that the paradoxe is only in the language, that it cannot express what god is, and that in fact there is no contradiction at all ;) Le Mardi 22 Novembre 2005 07:28,

Re: Goldilocks world

2005-11-21 Thread Kim Jones
Wow! So only the Jews and the Muslims can officially rave on about G's Omnipotence etc. That it? and IANAC either :) Sorry - we're gittin off-topic here he he he Kim On 22/11/2005, at 5:28 PM, Russell Standish wrote: That is the logical argument against omnipotence. IIRC, Aquinas knew