Re: Is God created ?
On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 1:46 AM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: In my metaphysical string cosmology god is created by the compactification of space dimensions. Then God was created just like we were and it's rather silly to worship Him; if you must worship something (and I have no idea why you must) then worship the compactification of space dimensions. John K Clark It seems to me that is what most of us do on this list, because in my opinion, arithmetics comes from the dimensional compactification results in a cubic lattice of discrete and distinct 6d particles (~10^90/cc) that are enumerable and capable of arithmetics, and in short is the location of Platonia. Richard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Is God created ?
On Friday, February 1, 2013 8:15:57 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote: On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 1:46 AM, John Clark johnk...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 Richard Ruquist yan...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: In my metaphysical string cosmology god is created by the compactification of space dimensions. Then God was created just like we were and it's rather silly to worship Him; if you must worship something (and I have no idea why you must) then worship the compactification of space dimensions. John K Clark It seems to me that is what most of us do on this list, because in my opinion, arithmetics comes from the dimensional compactification results in a cubic lattice of discrete and distinct 6d particles (~10^90/cc) that are enumerable and capable of arithmetics, and in short is the location of Platonia. Richard Why are they enumerable (by what? and what does that mean in terms of generic lattices and particles?) or capable of arithmetics? Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.comjavascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Is God created ?
It seems to me that is what most of us do on this list, is to worship or at least try to validate and dignify arithmetics as the source of physical laws as well as energy, matter and consciousness. In my opinion, arithmetics comes from the dimensional compactification that results in a cubic lattice of discrete and distinct 6d particles (~10^90/cc). Because they are discrete and each distinct, they are enumerable and capable of arithmetics. In short, they are the location of Platonia. Richard On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, February 1, 2013 8:15:57 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote: On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 1:46 AM, John Clark johnk...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 Richard Ruquist yan...@gmail.com wrote: In my metaphysical string cosmology god is created by the compactification of space dimensions. Then God was created just like we were and it's rather silly to worship Him; if you must worship something (and I have no idea why you must) then worship the compactification of space dimensions. John K Clark It seems to me that is what most of us do on this list, because in my opinion, arithmetics comes from the dimensional compactification results in a cubic lattice of discrete and distinct 6d particles (~10^90/cc) that are enumerable and capable of arithmetics, and in short is the location of Platonia. Richard Why are they enumerable (by what? and what does that mean in terms of generic lattices and particles?) or capable of arithmetics? Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Is God created ?
On Friday, February 1, 2013 10:35:22 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote: It seems to me that is what most of us do on this list, is to worship or at least try to validate and dignify arithmetics as the source of physical laws as well as energy, matter and consciousness. In my opinion, arithmetics comes from the dimensional compactification that results in a cubic lattice of discrete and distinct 6d particles (~10^90/cc). Because they are discrete and each distinct, they are enumerable and capable of arithmetics. Only if you already assume that there is a such thing as enumeration and arithmetic and that this phenomenon applies to discrete, distinct 'entities'. Why would they though? Why doesn't particles being discrete make them worryable or delicious instead? It sounds like a case of 'give me one miracle for free and I'll give you the rest at cost.' (to paraphrase Terrence McKenna. In short, they are the location of Platonia. Richard On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Friday, February 1, 2013 8:15:57 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote: On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 1:46 AM, John Clark johnk...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 Richard Ruquist yan...@gmail.com wrote: In my metaphysical string cosmology god is created by the compactification of space dimensions. Then God was created just like we were and it's rather silly to worship Him; if you must worship something (and I have no idea why you must) then worship the compactification of space dimensions. John K Clark It seems to me that is what most of us do on this list, because in my opinion, arithmetics comes from the dimensional compactification results in a cubic lattice of discrete and distinct 6d particles (~10^90/cc) that are enumerable and capable of arithmetics, and in short is the location of Platonia. Richard Why are they enumerable (by what? and what does that mean in terms of generic lattices and particles?) or capable of arithmetics? Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.comjavascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Re: Is God created ?
Hi Richard Ruquist It's not just semantics if you know the difference between the nonphysical (God) and the physical (stuff in spacetime). - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-31, 19:57:54 Subject: Re: Is God created ? That just semantics. In my metaphysical string cosmology god is created by the compactification of space dimensions. On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Kim God is not himself created since the creator of all cannot create himself and still remain a creator. - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-30, 13:19:48 Subject: Re: Hateful On 30 Jan 2013, at 06:06, Kim Jones wrote: we do WHOSE will??? I mean, what if God turns out to be a gigantic chicken or the Michelin Man? Of course it depends on what you mean by God. If God appears to be he Michelin Man, we have already a problem as the Michelin Man has a name, but God does not, hmm... If you mean that the Michelin is really responsible for our existence, then we might have to revised our opinion on the Michelin Man. Are we still happy with our chosen values? Why not? Our value should be kept independent on any scientific discoveries, including in ethics, as they only confirms or refute hypotheses, and our values are deeper than those hypothesis. If not, you make some science into a religion, but then you play the pseudo-science or pseudo-religion games. Bruno K On 30/01/2013, at 4:01 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: On 1/29/2013 11:13 PM, Kim Jones wrote: This is a pretty well-worn, oft-used, school prayer. Given it is recited or sung by the entire student body and staff at a good many schools and other institutions you would have to assume that it's all fundamentally good stuff. Teach us, good Lord, to serve thee as thou deserves; to give and not to count the cost; to fight and not to heed the wounds; to till, and not to seek for rest; to labour, and not to ask for any reward, save that of knowing we do thy will. Amen. But it's all incredibly bad advice, really - don't you think? Why do people assume God wants Earthlings to be such a bunch of try- hards? I hate this prayer. It advertises values that no one can live up to and no one need live up to. Surely we can invent a better, less servile, less obsequious, less cringing, less Gollum-like take on what we think God wants for us. All this servility, this grovelling at the feet of somebody. Is God really into all that? I don't believe it. Kim Jones Saint Ignatius' prayer, no? Common for those in Jesuit schools. I never hear it in my days of Christian school... Many people live well with such ideas in their heads, why the licentious talk of them? -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
Re: Is God created ?
On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 01 Feb 2013, at 14:15, Richard Ruquist wrote: On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 1:46 AM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: In my metaphysical string cosmology god is created by the compactification of space dimensions. Then God was created just like we were and it's rather silly to worship Him; if you must worship something (and I have no idea why you must) then worship the compactification of space dimensions. John K Clark It seems to me that is what most of us do on this list, because in my opinion, arithmetics comes from the dimensional compactification results in a cubic lattice of discrete and distinct 6d particles (~10^90/cc) that are enumerable and capable of arithmetics, and in short is the location of Platonia. Richard Can you explain dimensional compactification without using arithmetic? I rely on Prof. ST Yau and Prof. Cumrun Vafa for that explanation. My role is not to do fundamental theory. As a former systems engineer I put together a system based both on arithemetics that you have provided and string theory that the forementioned researchers have provided plus some conjectures/dreams of my own that makes it all work. You have mentioned how quantum theory validates comp. Well string theory does as well. You might think about formalizing your theory, so we can see what you assume and what you derive. Of course such a work needs some familarity with logic. Note that Schmidhuber (the brother of Juergen) made an interesting attempt to see string theory in formal terms. I suggest you start perhaps from there. I have not the paper under my hand, but you can find it with Google, I guess. Bruno http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0011065 Strings from Logic Christof Schmidhuber (Submitted on 9 Nov 2000) What are strings made of? The possibility is discussed that strings are purely mathematical objects, made of logical axioms. More precisely, proofs in simple logical calculi are represented by graphs that can be interpreted as the Feynman diagrams of certain large-N field theories. Each vertex represents an axiom. Strings arise, because these large-N theories are dual to string theories. These ``logical quantum field theories'' map theorems into the space of functions of two parameters: N and the coupling constant. Undecidable theorems might be related to nonperturbative field theory effects. Thank you for this lead (19 pages). His discussion under INTERPRETATION looks most interesting. Does he use substitution in the same sense that you do? I will study his paper and possibly use some of his results. However, it seems that he uses a considerable number of axioms whereas comp has very few. But I think the more important question is- What are dimensions made of?- presumably the same mathscape. Can you help here? Perhaps the answer is embedded in his paper. Richard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Re: Is God created ?
Hi Richard Ruquist Perhaps you can just define or describe compactification in general terms. Is it compactification of dimensions ? - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-02-01, 13:30:36 Subject: Re: Is God created ? On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 01 Feb 2013, at 14:15, Richard Ruquist wrote: On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 1:46 AM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: In my metaphysical string cosmology god is created by the compactification of space dimensions. Then God was created just like we were and it's rather silly to worship Him; if you must worship something (and I have no idea why you must) then worship the compactification of space dimensions. John K Clark It seems to me that is what most of us do on this list, because in my opinion, arithmetics comes from the dimensional compactification results in a cubic lattice of discrete and distinct 6d particles (~10^90/cc) that are enumerable and capable of arithmetics, and in short is the location of Platonia. Richard Can you explain dimensional compactification without using arithmetic? I rely on Prof. ST Yau and Prof. Cumrun Vafa for that explanation. My role is not to do fundamental theory. As a former systems engineer I put together a system based both on arithemetics that you have provided and string theory that the forementioned researchers have provided plus some conjectures/dreams of my own that makes it all work. You have mentioned how quantum theory validates comp. Well string theory does as well. You might think about formalizing your theory, so we can see what you assume and what you derive. Of course such a work needs some familarity with logic. Note that Schmidhuber (the brother of Juergen) made an interesting attempt to see string theory in formal terms. I suggest you start perhaps from there. I have not the paper under my hand, but you can find it with Google, I guess. Bruno http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0011065 Strings from Logic Christof Schmidhuber (Submitted on 9 Nov 2000) What are strings made of? The possibility is discussed that strings are purely mathematical objects, made of logical axioms. More precisely, proofs in simple logical calculi are represented by graphs that can be interpreted as the Feynman diagrams of certain large-N field theories. Each vertex represents an axiom. Strings arise, because these large-N theories are dual to string theories. These ``logical quantum field theories'' map theorems into the space of functions of two parameters: N and the coupling constant. Undecidable theorems might be related to nonperturbative field theory effects. Thank you for this lead (19 pages). His discussion under INTERPRETATION looks most interesting. Does he use substitution in the same sense that you do? I will study his paper and possibly use some of his results. However, it seems that he uses a considerable number of axioms whereas comp has very few. But I think the more important question is- What are dimensions made of?- presumably the same mathscape. Can you help here? Perhaps the answer is embedded in his paper. Richard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group
Re: Is God created ?
On Thursday, January 31, 2013 4:02:58 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Kim God is not himself created since the creator of all cannot create himself and still remain a creator. Why not just say the same of the universe? If the argument for God is that everything that exists must be created by something, then why not just say that the Universe cannot create itself and still remain the Universe? Craig - Receiving the following content - *From:* Bruno Marchal javascript: *Receiver:* everything-list javascript: *Time:* 2013-01-30, 13:19:48 *Subject:* Re: Hateful On 30 Jan 2013, at 06:06, Kim Jones wrote: we do WHOSE will??? I mean, what if God turns out to be a gigantic chicken or the Michelin Man? Of course it depends on what you mean by God. If God appears to be he Michelin Man, we have already a problem as the Michelin Man has a name, but God does not, hmm... If you mean that the Michelin is really responsible for our existence, then we might have to revised our opinion on the Michelin Man. Are we still happy with our chosen values? Why not? Our value should be kept independent on any scientific discoveries, including in ethics, as they only confirms or refute hypotheses, and our values are deeper than those hypothesis. If not, you make some science into a religion, but then you play the pseudo-science or pseudo-religion games. Bruno K On 30/01/2013, at 4:01 PM, Stephen P. King step...@charter.netjavascript: wrote: On 1/29/2013 11:13 PM, Kim Jones wrote: This is a pretty well-worn, oft-used, school prayer. Given it is recited or sung by the entire student body and staff at a good many schools and other institutions you would have to assume that it's all fundamentally good stuff. Teach us, good Lord, to serve thee as thou deserves; to give and not to count the cost; to fight and not to heed the wounds; to till, and not to seek for rest; to labour, and not to ask for any reward, save that of knowing we do thy will. Amen. But it's all incredibly bad advice, really - don't you think? Why do people assume God wants Earthlings to be such a bunch of try- hards? I hate this prayer. It advertises values that no one can live up to and no one need live up to. Surely we can invent a better, less servile, less obsequious, less cringing, less Gollum-like take on what we think God wants for us. All this servility, this grovelling at the feet of somebody. Is God really into all that? I don't believe it. Kim Jones Saint Ignatius' prayer, no? Common for those in Jesuit schools. I never hear it in my days of Christian school... Many people live well with such ideas in their heads, why the licentious talk of them? -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsub...@googlegroups.com.javascript: To post to this group, send email to everything- li...@googlegroups.com. javascript: Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsub...@googlegroups.com.javascript: To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com.javascript: Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsub...@googlegroups.com. javascript: To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com.javascript: Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Is God created ?
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: God is not himself created So the God hypothesis can not answer the question of why there is something rather than nothing. since creator of all cannot create himself Thus God is not omnipotent and is demoted to the status of being a comic book superhero, or supervillan, depending on how you feel about genocide and God smiting all those poor Philistines and stealing their land. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Is God created ?
That just semantics. In my metaphysical string cosmology god is created by the compactification of space dimensions. On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Kim God is not himself created since the creator of all cannot create himself and still remain a creator. - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-30, 13:19:48 Subject: Re: Hateful On 30 Jan 2013, at 06:06, Kim Jones wrote: we do WHOSE will??? I mean, what if God turns out to be a gigantic chicken or the Michelin Man? Of course it depends on what you mean by God. If God appears to be he Michelin Man, we have already a problem as the Michelin Man has a name, but God does not, hmm... If you mean that the Michelin is really responsible for our existence, then we might have to revised our opinion on the Michelin Man. Are we still happy with our chosen values? Why not? Our value should be kept independent on any scientific discoveries, including in ethics, as they only confirms or refute hypotheses, and our values are deeper than those hypothesis. If not, you make some science into a religion, but then you play the pseudo-science or pseudo-religion games. Bruno K On 30/01/2013, at 4:01 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote: On 1/29/2013 11:13 PM, Kim Jones wrote: This is a pretty well-worn, oft-used, school prayer. Given it is recited or sung by the entire student body and staff at a good many schools and other institutions you would have to assume that it's all fundamentally good stuff. Teach us, good Lord, to serve thee as thou deserves; to give and not to count the cost; to fight and not to heed the wounds; to till, and not to seek for rest; to labour, and not to ask for any reward, save that of knowing we do thy will. Amen. But it's all incredibly bad advice, really - don't you think? Why do people assume God wants Earthlings to be such a bunch of try- hards? I hate this prayer. It advertises values that no one can live up to and no one need live up to. Surely we can invent a better, less servile, less obsequious, less cringing, less Gollum-like take on what we think God wants for us. All this servility, this grovelling at the feet of somebody. Is God really into all that? I don't believe it. Kim Jones Saint Ignatius' prayer, no? Common for those in Jesuit schools. I never hear it in my days of Christian school... Many people live well with such ideas in their heads, why the licentious talk of them? -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Is God created ?
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: In my metaphysical string cosmology god is created by the compactification of space dimensions. Then God was created just like we were and it's rather silly to worship Him; if you must worship something (and I have no idea why you must) then worship the compactification of space dimensions. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
