Re: Monads within monads within monads-- Leibniz, strings, and atomic structure
How far down, or up, do the Monads go? Perhaps how for in or out. Do monads stop at the Planck length, or the Beckenstein Bound?? Monads seem, somehow more primal then an average particle. I could see neutrinos being real monads, because they can alter from an electron neutrino to a muon, or tau neturino, which for me seems magical, as well as being able to penetrate a light year of solid lead, supposedly. -Original Message- From: Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net To: - Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net Sent: Tue, May 7, 2013 7:09 am Subject: Monads within monads within monads-- Leibniz, strings, and atomic structure Monads within monads within monads-- matter, strings and atomic structure First I'm going to have to take you, searchlight in hand, through the darkest, most difficult topic in Leibniz's philosophy, which is difficult for beginners, especially if they're materialists. The dark passageway is what Leibniz means by substance and monad. Leibniz sometimes refers to substance as if it were a description of a physical object, but these both only apply to mental entities. Leibniz developed his idealistic theory of monads before anything was known about atomic physics, so, although being aware of the possibility from the ancient Greeks, he did not include atoms specifically in his theory. Instead, he used Aristotle's concept of substance, but allowed it to be continually changing. In place of physical atoms, he based his philosophy on the corresponding mental quantity, the monad. Without going into great detail, Leibniz used an atom of mind, the monad, Leibniz began by asking, in the tradition of Descartes, if there might be any fundamental quantity, anything certain, on which he could base his philosophy. He found that everything in spacetime could be divided an infinite number of times, so that the fundamental quantity must not be physical. Today we know that there may be a size limit, the atom or fundamental particles, but one cannot isolate these, due to the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle. Here I use isolatability instead of infinite divisibility to dismiss anything physical (anything in spacetime) as being fundamental. That includes space and time, which are infinitely divisible. Also, there are arguments by others such as Paul Davis that matter is not fundamental. Next then we ask whether mind has fundamental units on which to build a philosophy. If you recall the double aspect theory of mind, you can see that parts of the brain, while not being fundamental, possess fundamental functions, such as units of memory, or visual or sensory motor functions. So it appears that mind, a mental substance, can be divided up into fundamental or logical wholes or concepts. Leibniz then used these units of mind or monads as the fundamental mental atoms of existence. A monad then is a complete concept, a whole. a simple substance of one part. A monad may and probably does have variations within, but it is a whole, constantly changing entity which, being so, does not have a boundary within, as long as we assess the whole as a single function. Thus man as a monad contains a brain as a monad which contains neurons as monads. Note that, although each of these monads is physically within the others, the monads are to be classed as functions within functions, and may not be directly related to the physical monads. A piece of matter would mentally consist of a monad for the whole, inside of which (here both mentally and physically) are a huge number of monads for the atoms. Then if we look further, we might have within the atom monad, monads for its subparticles such as electrons, protons and neutrons. Similary each atom is made up of strings. I would suspect that the various modes of vibration would be further monads inside the basic atom monad. Higher frequency strings inside lower frequency strings. If we look at this abstractly, as on a spreadsheet, we see that the universe can be characterized topically, as monads within monads, depending on how finely we focus our vision. Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 5/7/2013 See my Leibniz site at http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to
Re: Monads within monads within monads-- Leibniz, strings, and atomic structure
spudboy...@aol.com 11:10 AM (44 minutes ago) How far down, or up, do the Monads go? Perhaps how for in or out. Do monads stop at the Planck length, or the Beckenstein Bound?? Monads seem, somehow more primal then an average particle. I could see neutrinos being real monads, because they can alter from an electron neutrino to a muon, or tau neturino, which for me seems magical, as well as being able to penetrate a light year of solid lead, supposedly. Hi, As a concept, the depth of monads is infinite; every monads reflects and thus is defined by all other monads. If this is a perfectly homogeneous and symmetric reflection, then all monads will be identical and thus there will be only one, by Leibniz' principle of the identity of indiscernibles. If we break this symmetry and consider only finite collections of monads, then maybe we can relate such concepts as the Planck length and Beckenstein's bound. breaking more symmetries can manifest other groups that are associated with particles, etc. What must be understood is that monads are not 'in a space'; they are indivisible units of perception and as such all that can be percieved from one point of view is 'contained in' and defines a single monad. When we consider that a monad is the perfect representation of an observer and its point of view, we can rederive all of physics without having to assume some disembodied superobserver that is 'nowhere'. It has been suggested that space-time (and the Lorentz relations) itself can be derived from ordered lattices of such observers. On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 11:10 AM, spudboy...@aol.com wrote: How far down, or up, do the Monads go? Perhaps how for in or out. Do monads stop at the Planck length, or the Beckenstein Bound?? Monads seem, somehow more primal then an average particle. I could see neutrinos being real monads, because they can alter from an electron neutrino to a muon, or tau neturino, which for me seems magical, as well as being able to penetrate a light year of solid lead, supposedly. -Original Message- From: Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net To: - Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net Sent: Tue, May 7, 2013 7:09 am Subject: Monads within monads within monads-- Leibniz, strings, and atomic structure Monads within monads within monads-- matter, strings and atomic structure First I'm going to have to take you, searchlight in hand, through the darkest, most difficult topic in Leibniz's philosophy, which is difficult for beginners, especially if they're materialists. The dark passageway is what Leibniz means by substance and monad. Leibniz sometimes refers to substance as if it were a description of a physical object, but these both only apply to mental entities. Leibniz developed his idealistic theory of monads before anything was known about atomic physics, so, although being aware of the possibility from the ancient Greeks, he did not include atoms specifically in his theory. Instead, he used Aristotle's concept of substance, but allowed it to be continually changing. In place of physical atoms, he based his philosophy on the corresponding mental quantity, the monad. Without going into great detail, Leibniz used an atom of mind, the monad, Leibniz began by asking, in the tradition of Descartes, if there might be any fundamental quantity, anything certain, on which he could base his philosophy. He found that everything in spacetime could be divided an infinite number of times, so that the fundamental quantity must not be physical. Today we know that there may be a size limit, the atom or fundamental particles, but one cannot isolate these, due to the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle. Here I use isolatability instead of infinite divisibility to dismiss anything physical (anything in spacetime) as being fundamental. That includes space and time, which are infinitely divisible. Also, there are arguments by others such as Paul Davis that matter is not fundamental. Next then we ask whether mind has fundamental units on which to build a philosophy. If you recall the double aspect theory of mind, you can see that parts of the brain, while not being fundamental, possess fundamental functions, such as units of memory, or visual or sensory motor functions. So it appears that mind, a mental substance, can be divided up into fundamental or logical wholes or concepts. Leibniz then used these units of mind or monads as the fundamental mental atoms of existence. A monad then is a complete concept, a whole. a simple substance of one part. A monad may and probably does have variations within, but it is a whole, constantly changing entity which, being so, does not have a boundary within, as long as we assess the whole as a single function. Thus man as a monad contains a brain as a monad which contains neurons as monads. Note that, although each of these monads is physically within the others, the monads are to be classed as functions within
Re: Monads within monads within monads-- Leibniz, strings, and atomic structure
*Any* compositions of monads is a monad. On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 7:15:27 AM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: Monads within composite monads. How can you discuss Leibniz without mention of composite monads In addition, Indras Pearls were known before the time of Leibniz On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Roger Clough rcl...@verizon.netjavascript: wrote: Monads within monads within monads-- matter, strings and atomic structure First I'm going to have to take you, searchlight in hand, through the darkest, most difficult topic in Leibniz's philosophy, which is difficult for beginners, especially if they're materialists. The dark passageway is what Leibniz means by substance and monad. Leibniz sometimes refers to substance as if it were a description of a physical object, but these both only apply to mental entities. Leibniz developed his idealistic theory of monads before anything was known about atomic physics, so, although being aware of the possibility from the ancient Greeks, he did not include atoms specifically in his theory. Instead, he used Aristotle's concept of substance, but allowed it to be continually changing. In place of physical atoms, he based his philosophy on the corresponding mental quantity, the monad. Without going into great detail, Leibniz used an atom of mind, the monad, Leibniz began by asking, in the tradition of Descartes, if there might be any fundamental quantity, anything certain, on which he could base his philosophy. He found that everything in spacetime could be divided an infinite number of times, so that the fundamental quantity must not be physical. Today we know that there may be a size limit, the atom or fundamental particles, but one cannot isolate these, due to the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle. Here I use isolatability instead of infinite divisibility to dismiss anything physical (anything in spacetime) as being fundamental. That includes space and time, which are infinitely divisible. Also, there are arguments by others such as Paul Davis that matter is not fundamental. Next then we ask whether mind has fundamental units on which to build a philosophy. If you recall the double aspect theory of mind, you can see that parts of the brain, while not being fundamental, possess fundamental functions, such as units of memory, or visual or sensory motor functions. So it appears that mind, a mental substance, can be divided up into fundamental or logical wholes or concepts. Leibniz then used these units of mind or monads as the fundamental mental atoms of existence. A monad then is a complete concept, a whole. a simple substance of one part. A monad may and probably does have variations within, but it is a whole, constantly changing entity which, being so, does not have a boundary within, as long as we assess the whole as a single function. Thus man as a monad contains a brain as a monad which contains neurons as monads. Note that, although each of these monads is physically within the others, the monads are to be classed as functions within functions, and may not be directly related to the physical monads. A piece of matter would mentally consist of a monad for the whole, inside of which (here both mentally and physically) are a huge number of monads for the atoms. Then if we look further, we might have within the atom monad, monads for its subparticles such as electrons, protons and neutrons. Similary each atom is made up of strings. I would suspect that the various modes of vibration would be further monads inside the basic atom monad. Higher frequency strings inside lower frequency strings. If we look at this abstractly, as on a spreadsheet, we see that the universe can be characterized topically, as monads within monads, depending on how finely we focus our vision. Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 5/7/2013 See my Leibniz site at http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
