Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
11/3/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-11-02, 13:34:22
Subject: Re: Self-ascription and "Perfect Model Model"
On 02 Nov 2012, at 10:42, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno,
Could it not be that there is nothing especially sacred
about the natural numbers, that these are, as Hobbes
put it regarding words, "but counterfeit tokens" ?
Numbers, with + and * laws, is mainly the same things than digital
machines, and the laws making them working.
And the real controlling force which uses them is
information theory ? That is to say, intelligence.
Here you are far too quick. I can make sense, because I have some
favorable imagination. As I said, information theory is a tiny part of
computer science. It exploits the duality between immune/simple set,
where the self-reference logic exploits the duality creative/
productive set. The two dualities plays some r?e, but the creative/
productive set duality (the theory of universal machine) is much more
rich. The mathematical notion of information still disallows meaning
and person. It is more used for communication of signals, treatment of
noise, compression of data, etc.
You will also have the problem between choosing classical information
or quantum information, and how to relate them, etc.
Bruno
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
11/2/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Evgenii Rudnyi
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-11-01, 06:09:50
Subject: Re: Self-ascription and "Perfect Model Model"
On 30.10.2012 16:25 Bruno Marchal said the following:
On 30 Oct 2012, at 12:53, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
...
You talk for example about integers as a framework for everything.
Fine. Yet, I would like to understand how mankind through it
development has invented integers. How comp would help to answer
this?
Comp might not been able to answer that, in any better way than,
say,
evolution theory. Numbers are important in nature, as everything is
born from them, and to survive with bigger chance, the universal
numbers, us in particular, have to be able to recognize them, and
manipulate them accordingly. Comp is not a theory aimed at
explaining
everything directly. It is just, at the start, an hypothesis in
philosophy of mind, and then it appears that it reduces the mind-
body
problem to an explanation of quanta and qualia from
arithmetic/computer science.
Its main value in the human science, is, imo, that he forces us to
be
more modest, and more aware that we know about nothing, if only
because we have wrongly separate the human science (including
theology, afterlife, metaphysics) and the exact sciences. Comp
provides a way to reunite them. Comp can be seen as an abstract
corpus callosum making a bridge between the formal and the informal,
before bridging mind and matter.
Below there is a couple of quotes about German idealism. Please
replace
Absolute Spirit by Natural Numbers there. Then it may give one
possible
answer to my question.
?bsolute Spirit is the fundamental reality. But in order to create
the
world, the Absolute manifests itself, or goes out of itself in a
sense,
the Absolute forgets itself and empties itself into creation
(although
never really ceasing to be itself). Thus the world is created as a
?alling away? from Spirit, as a ?elf-alienation? of Spirit, although
the Fall is never anything but a play of Spirit itself.?
?aving ?allen? into the manifest and material world, Spirit begins
the
process of returning to itself, and this process of the return of
Spirit
to Spirit is simply development or evolution itself. The original
?escent? (or involution) is a forgetting, a fall, a self-alienation
of
Spirit; and the reverse movement of ?scent? (or evolution) is thus
the
self-remembering and self-actualization of Spirit. And yet, the
Idealists emphasized, all of Spirit is fully present at each and
every
stage of evolution as the process of evolution itself. ?
Evgenii
--
http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/10/evolution-and-german-idealism.html
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