Re: Re: Only you can know if you actually have intelligence
Hi Bruno Marchal I was thinking of, say, a gnat, the intelligence perhaps being yes or no in favor of survival. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/11/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-10, 13:41:23 Subject: Re: Only you can know if you actually have intelligence On 10 Oct 2012, at 14:23, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stathis Papaioannou You can be tested for intelligence, You can be tested for competence, only. Not for intelligence. Not for consciousness, either. You can test locally for non-intelligence, in front of a repeated mistakes. Intelligence is an emotional thing, related with a form of self- insatisfaction. It can have variate qualities. but the enduring solipsist problem shows that you cannot be tested for consciousness. You can test only relative competence. You can appreciate intelligence, but it depends on your own. Competence is conceptually simple, but hard in practice. Intelligence is conceptually difficult, and hard in practice. Consciousness is conceptually difficult, but easy in practice. At least nobody seems to have come up with such a test. Such a test does not even make sense. I think. Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/10/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stathis Papaioannou Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-09, 08:35:18 Subject: Re: Only you can know if you actually have intelligence On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi meekerdb Only you can know if you actually have intelligence, although you can appear to have intelligence (as if). You can be tested for it. Thus comp is not different from us, or at least it has the same limitations. I think you mean consciousness rather than intelligence. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Only you can know if you actually have intelligence
Hi Stathis Papaioannou You can be tested for intelligence, but the enduring solipsist problem shows that you cannot be tested for consciousness. At least nobody seems to have come up with such a test. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/10/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stathis Papaioannou Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-09, 08:35:18 Subject: Re: Only you can know if you actually have intelligence On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi meekerdb Only you can know if you actually have intelligence, although you can appear to have intelligence (as if). You can be tested for it. Thus comp is not different from us, or at least it has the same limitations. I think you mean consciousness rather than intelligence. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Only you can know if you actually have intelligence
On 10 Oct 2012, at 14:23, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stathis Papaioannou You can be tested for intelligence, You can be tested for competence, only. Not for intelligence. Not for consciousness, either. You can test locally for non-intelligence, in front of a repeated mistakes. Intelligence is an emotional thing, related with a form of self- insatisfaction. It can have variate qualities. but the enduring solipsist problem shows that you cannot be tested for consciousness. You can test only relative competence. You can appreciate intelligence, but it depends on your own. Competence is conceptually simple, but hard in practice. Intelligence is conceptually difficult, and hard in practice. Consciousness is conceptually difficult, but easy in practice. At least nobody seems to have come up with such a test. Such a test does not even make sense. I think. Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/10/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stathis Papaioannou Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-09, 08:35:18 Subject: Re: Only you can know if you actually have intelligence On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi meekerdb Only you can know if you actually have intelligence, although you can appear to have intelligence (as if). You can be tested for it. Thus comp is not different from us, or at least it has the same limitations. I think you mean consciousness rather than intelligence. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Only you can know if you actually have intelligence
On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi meekerdb Only you can know if you actually have intelligence, although you can appear to have intelligence (as if). You can be tested for it. Thus comp is not different from us, or at least it has the same limitations. I think you mean consciousness rather than intelligence. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Only you can know if you actually have intelligence
Hi Roger Clough, Hi meekerdb Only you can know if you actually have intelligence, although you can appear to have intelligence (as if). You can be tested for it. Thus comp is not different from us, or at least it has the same limitations. Exactly. And above the level of Löbianity, or with the induction axioms, I mean at a rather precise technical level, the machine is or can be aware of such limitations. Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/9/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-08, 13:35:28 Subject: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment On 10/8/2012 8:42 AM, John Clark wrote: 2) Intelligent behavior is NOT associated with subjective experience, in which case there is no reason for Evolution to produce consciousness and I have no explanation for why I am here, and I have reason to believe that I am the only conscious being in the universe. There's a third possibility: Intelligent behavior is sometimes associated with subjective experience and sometimes not. Evolution may have produced consciousness as a spandrel, an accident of the particular developmental path that evolution happened upon. Or it may be that consciousness is necessarily associated with only certain kinds of intelligent behavior, e.g. those related to language. Bretn -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
