On 11 Nov 2008, at 21:14, Tom Caylor wrote:
> > Bruno, > > Thanks. > > I must say, there are all kinds of interesting parallels between the > Plotinus' three "gods" and the Christian Trinity which is three > persons in one God, the parallel's being noted by Augustine. > Specifically > 1) Plotinus' One and God the Father, being the source of Everything, > all truth; > 2) Plotinus' Intellect, logos, and God the Son, also called logos, > spanning the gap between the divine and the terrestial (i.e. your > modal logics G* and G); and > 3) Plotinus' All Soul and God the Holy Spirit, the source of > creativity,... OK. > > Note that it is only through the second and third ones that any person > can exist and can know God. Absolutely so. Plato and Plotinus would have agree, I think. > > More controversial, the Trinity needs all three persons in order to > fully be who God really is, because God is love, which requires more > than one person: two persons and a way for the two persons to relate > (the third one). Hmmm.... That is a bit ambiguous, but I can interpret it favorably. I must say that I have some problem with Plotinus ethics. But I don't want to tal about it now, and perhaps compare some more translations ... > > There is also a parallel between Plotinus' fall and the Fall in the > Bible. I do agree with this. Christians, Muslims and Jewish have been deeply influenced by Plotinus (and by the greek theology). But their official stands have follow Aristotle theology and his quasi-implicit bet on a primary physical universe. Note that the Christian, Muslims and Jews have conserved Neo-platonist school of thought. It is a fashion today to compare them to eastern religion, and most of the mystics share similar beliefs. > > > Regarding your work, I am particularly focused on the third > hypostase. I have read your SANE 2004 paper and your Plotinus paper. > I have gone through part of Cutland's book "Computability: An > Introduction to Recursive Function Theory" and convinced myself of the > validity of the UDA Step 7 except for the 1st vs. 3rd person > distinction. In particular, I am most interested in Step 6 and your > later section "Arithmetical Theaetetus" of your SANE 2004 paper. (I > have read Plato's "Theaetetus".) This seems to depend on the third > hypostase, the All Soul. I still have to contemplate just what my > question is, but something just doesn't sit right with me as being a > valid argument. I think that there is some additional hidden > assumption being made here. I feel it is probably an assumption that > would not be acceptable to the scientific community, which by the way > doesn't make it false. > > I'll have to think about this more, or maybe it can be brought to > light through conversation. Tell me when you find the question, or the hidden assumption :) Best, Bruno > > > Tom > > On Nov 9, 9:08 am, Bruno Marchal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On 07 Nov 2008, at 18:53, Tom Caylor wrote: >> >> >> >>> Anna, OK, I understand. >> >>> Thomas, as another reference point for study, what I refer to as the >>> point of view from the Plenitude, or Plotinus' One, has frequently >>> been referred to as the "God's eye point of view". >>> (I didn't bring that up at first because I believe in a God who is >>> different from the Plenitude or Plotinus' One, both of which are >>> impersonal. By the way, the personal God is the only one in whom a >>> person can possibly believe, but that could be another topic.) >> >>> Tom >> >> Tom, >> Don't forget that for the Greek Theologians (and not just for them), >> there are three Gods. >> >> The ONE is impersonal. Sure. >> >> The second one, the INTELLECT is personal, although most >> mathematician >> and scientist does not completely realize this, and in math this can >> be seen as a consequence of incompleteness, as should be >> transparently clear if we assume mechanism (cf my plotinus paper). >> With mechanism, the intellect also splits in two parts (effective and >> terrestrial on one part (G) and ineffective and divine on the the >> other part (G*). In science, this can be seen a consequence of the >> fact that we cannot easily get rid of the presence of the observer >> (cf >> Galilee, Einstein, Everett ...) >> >> But then you have the third one. The third god of Plotinus, the >> UNIVERSAL SOUL, is the one compared with the eastern God and with the >> experience of mystics. And it is the one described by S4Grz and >> intuitionist logics (for those who reminds older posts 'course). This >> one is a person, it is even the roots of all possible first person >> knowledge. It is a creative subject, the maker and destroyer of >> realities, the creator of time an eventually space (with the help of >> the numbers). It is the one which already in Plotinus has a foot in >> the "material world", a foot in the non computational structures >> emerging from the collection of all computational consistent >> extensions. It is the one which can (and will) fall and forget its >> roots and then come back (as Plotinus hopes for). >> >> (and then when the soul falls, both the intellect and the SOUL create >> "matters": the intelligible matter, and the sensible matter >> respectively which also splits into terrestrial and divine parts >> (effective and true). Qualia and self-centered consciousness get >> ascribed goals and scenario here. Here matter matters for painful or >> joyful (with qualia) reasons. It is a matter of convention for not >> calling them gods. It is the secondary "hypostases" that Plotinus >> does >> not even range into the hypostases. Plotinus' attitude is related >> with >> the well known aversion of Platonists for matter. It is not just >> because "this can hurt and perish", it is because when you attach >> your >> soul (or yourself) to it too much strongly, not only it can hurt >> more, >> but you delay and make harder the coming back (conversion) process, >> in >> which Plotinus hopes so much. >> >> Bruno >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
