Re: Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie
2013/2/5 Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net Hi Alberto G. Corona Your concept is incomplete, because geometry is what Plato called forms, which he gave the Greek name of ideas. So you have a thought without a thinker. Yes, the greeks did not conceive an empty space without forms. For them it was the forms what created the space. They did no studied space geometry but the geometry of the forms. They did not conceived the infinite space. They don´t liked the concept, According with Spengler, this concept came from the nordic mithology and solidified in the Gothic architecture. The greek concept is more primitive and therefore, is much more intuitive and natural, because it descries space by what it is for: to perceive things and appreciate distances, proportions and shapes. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com *Receiver:* everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com *Time:* 2013-02-04, 15:09:16 *Subject:* Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie I think that geometry is a form of accelerated calculation and presentation of distances and angles by/in the mind, of the external mathematical reality.� Within this mental geometrical representation, 爓e locate the rest of the elements of the mathematical reality that are relevant for survival, they are, the qualia. And this is what whe perceive as reality, that apears to be out there. I mean 3D geometry. any other geometry either is mentaly transated to 3D by projections or else, must be calculated non intuitively (non accelerated) 燽y means of algebraic formulas. However, I imagine that an advanced robot with fast spatial processing (based of algebraic formulas) would pass the turing test when asked about geometrical figures in space. It can even answer: geometry is intuitive form me. My father-engineer gave me a good floating point coprocessor and good spatial algorithms. but there is a self reference when we try to imagine how the brain or a computer process geometry, and we imagine them embedded in the space and time that they create, which is not a correct intuition. we must imagine it in no time and no space. IMHO. 2013/2/4 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com On Monday, February 4, 2013 12:01:38 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Feb 2013, at 22:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: I have mentioned this before, but it keeps haunting me. If geometry did not exist. Could you invent it with mathematics alone? And if you could do that... Why would you? For instance: A triangle can be defined mathematically in different ways, but without the inherently geometric presentations of lines and angles, it seems that all you could generate is a description of a set of values which have the same relation as the values which would be present if a geometric shape were measured or sampled from optical or tactile detections. That is not to say that the list of mathematical definitions which satisfy triangularity (a^2 + b^2 = c^2 for example), even an exhaustive list, would suggest anything like the visible presence of a shape. All of the mathematics can be done completely in the dark, and no realism of points, plots, displays, manifolds, topologies, etc, ever need to literally appear to anything. We don't know that. We don't know that we don't know that. Craig Bruno So why do they? Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@**googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.**com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** group/everything-list?hl=enhttp://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_outhttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out . � � http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/ http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. � � -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out
Re: Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie
On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 5:13:03 AM UTC-5, Alberto G.Corona wrote: 2013/2/5 Roger Clough rcl...@verizon.net javascript: Hi Alberto G. Corona Your concept is incomplete, because geometry is what Plato called forms, which he gave the Greek name of ideas. So you have a thought without a thinker. Yes, the greeks did not conceive an empty space without forms. For them it was the forms what created the space. I think that they were right. What I propose about light, and all forms of energy, is that they do not literally radiate through space as waves or projectiles independently of forms, but that what we experience as light is exactly what it seems to be: how we sense the world visually. Light does not travel through a vacuum, rather it is a sensory-motor interaction among forms. Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie
Hi Alberto G. Corona Your concept is incomplete, because geometry is what Plato called forms, which he gave the Greek name of ideas. So you have a thought without a thinker. - Receiving the following content - From: Alberto G. Corona Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-02-04, 15:09:16 Subject: Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie I think that geometry is a form of accelerated calculation and presentation of distances and angles by/in the mind, of the external mathematical reality.? Within this mental geometrical representation, ?e locate the rest of the elements of the mathematical reality that are relevant for survival, they are, the qualia. And this is what whe perceive as reality, that apears to be out there. I mean 3D geometry. any other geometry either is mentaly transated to 3D by projections or else, must be calculated non intuitively (non accelerated) ?y means of algebraic formulas. However, I imagine that an advanced robot with fast spatial processing (based of algebraic formulas) would pass the turing test when asked about geometrical figures in space. It can even answer: geometry is intuitive form me. My father-engineer gave me a good floating point coprocessor and good spatial algorithms. but there is a self reference when we try to imagine how the brain or a computer process geometry, and we imagine them embedded in the space and time that they create, which is not a correct intuition. we must imagine it in no time and no space. IMHO. 2013/2/4 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com On Monday, February 4, 2013 12:01:38 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Feb 2013, at 22:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: I have mentioned this before, but it keeps haunting me. If geometry did not exist. Could you invent it with mathematics alone? And if you could do that... Why would you? For instance: A triangle can be defined mathematically in different ways, but without the inherently geometric presentations of lines and angles, it seems that all you could generate is a description of a set of values which have the same relation as the values which would be present if a geometric shape were measured or sampled from optical or tactile detections. That is not to say that the list of mathematical definitions which satisfy triangularity (a^2 + b^2 = c^2 for example), even an exhaustive list, would suggest anything like the visible presence of a shape. All of the mathematics can be done completely in the dark, and no realism of points, plots, displays, manifolds, topologies, etc, ever need to literally appear to anything. We don't know that. We don't know that we don't know that. Craig Bruno So why do they? Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ? ? http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ? ? -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
