Hi Alberto G. Corona Not to worry.
Since, along with Leibniz (see his Theodicy) I believe that everything is caused (sometimes unpreferably) by God, then faith is a gift, and, contrary to Billy Graham, cannot be invoked by man. You cannot decide to choose for Christ. You can however turn it down. To say it briefly, I believe that religion is not about man, it's about God. ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Alberto G. Corona Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-30, 06:23:15 Subject: Re: Re: Facts vs values 2013/1/30 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> Hi Bruno Marchal, ? When I read the Bible, it is a subjective act, but not my own subjective act alonw, it is contained in the subjectivity of the Holy Spirit. ? I? afraid that when the bible and the Holy Spirit is put away by more radical movements of a tradition of protest, then there remains only subjectivity, that is slave of the passions, as Luther said. Then we see as good what experientially it has been known that is bad during?housand?ears of history. If one add that the only remaining access to the experience of other human beings: History, literature, philosophy and all other humanities are being eradicacated from the school curricula, then we have completed the path to perfect self-branded subjectivism, for the glory and power of a nanny state ruled by passion satisfaction demagogy that manage at will its herd of free idiots. ? ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-27, 06:36:10 Subject: Re: Facts vs values On 25 Jan 2013, at 13:33, Roger Clough wrote: ? I have no conflict being a scientist when I deal with science, and being ??a Christian when I deal with the Bible. Of course we differ on this. For me "science" does not exist, only scientific attitude. And I consider that the scientific attitude is even more important with respect to faith than to observation, but this of course has been jeopardize when we have been imposed the argument per authority in the spiritual field, and I think this explain intolerance, religion wars, and a lot of unecessary suffering. ? Or with science when I deal with science and with aesthetics when ??I visit an art museam. Or go to a concert. ? Or with being a scientist when I deal?ith the Big Bang ??and being a Christian when I read Genesis. Two different ??accounts, from two different realms,?f the same event. ? Science has its own realm of validity in the realm of facts, ??but has no place -not even a foothold-- in the world of values. I agree with this, but values can add to science, not contradict it, or it leads to bad faith and authorianism. same for art: it extends science but does not oppose to it.? ? The difference between a fool and a wise man is in knowing the difference. I am not sure. If you separate science from religion, you attract the superstition and the wishful thinking. It might have a role, but that can be explained. And then, for many that difference will make science into a pseudo-religion. Ideal science is just ideal honesty/modesty. Bruno ? - Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ? ? http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ? ? -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
