Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The two basic theologies
Hi Craig Weinberg Yes, there is no calculus for the quality of life. But we still have to make decisions about it. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-03, 12:21:51 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: The two basic theologies On Thursday, January 3, 2013 5:22:24 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg Enhancing Life is not a very arbitrary value, I don't know about arbitrary, but it is a very nebulous value. What does the enhancement of life consist of? The growth of bacteria? The improvement of the standard of living of one species or group over another? Population growth or maximization of ecological niche coverage on Earth? Anything can be seen as enhancing life. We stockpile nerve gas and nuclear weapons because we feel that it enhances our lives. People keep loaded guns under their pillow because it enhances their lives. It is apparent that people have very different ideas of what enhances life - in many cases opposite ideas. To me, linking good and evil to such a subjective definition is asking for trouble. Equating good with socially benevolent qualities seems more accurate and useful. Craig but of course interpreting what that means can differ from person to person. That's why we have laws, either religious or legal ones. [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-02, 12:07:03 Subject: Re: Re: Re: The two basic theologies On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 6:29:55 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg So what's good for one may be evil for another. No surprise there. That's why an overriding referee or judge (God) is necessary. Why would the relativity of value necessitate some kind of referee? Any physical change robs one system of energy by increasing the energy of another. Why should there be an independent judge watching over these transactions? With sense instead of God, the weight of consequence is within the experience itself, subjectively implicit rather than an objectively explicit independent entity. [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 1/2/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-01, 17:42:20 Subject: Re: Re: The two basic theologies On Tuesday, January 1, 2013 4:14:18 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg CRAIG: Enhance whose life though? ROGER: Anybody's life. Disinfectants destroy microbiotic life. CRAIG: Would slavery Good or Evil? ROGER: The masters diminish the life of the slaves. The slaves have their lives diminished. So there's no good in it at all. The slaves enhance the lives of their masters. Their masters have their lives enhanced. So there's as much good in it as not. CRAIG: What about promiscuity or dessert or yeast? ROGER: Promiscuity diminishes the value of love and commitment, hence of life. I have no opinions on dessert or yeast. Promiscuity without contraception enhances the number of pregnancies. If you have no opinion on the others, does that mean that they don't fit into the good/evil dichotomy? CRAIG: Is cell division good or evil? I would say that growth of healthy cells is goog because they enhance life. And growth of cancer cells is evil or bad because they can cause death. Cancer cells enhance their own life. [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 1/1/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-01, 15:03:10 Subject: Re: The two basic theologies On Tuesday, January 1, 2013 10:08:36 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: A Theology for Atheists There are two opposing forces in the universe, those which enhance life, which we call Good, and those which diminish life, which we call Evil. Enhance whose life though? Would slavery Good or Evil? What about promiscuity or dessert or yeast? Is cell division good or evil? Who determines what 'enhanced' or 'diminished' means? As evidenced, these can be present in both happenings and in people. We have the freedom to support either cause or not support one. Don't we support both at all times, just by being alive? -- A Theology for Theists The same holds as above, with the addi
Re: Re: Re: Re: The two basic theologies
On Thursday, January 3, 2013 5:22:24 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: > > Hi Craig Weinberg > > Enhancing Life is not a very arbitrary value, > I don't know about arbitrary, but it is a very nebulous value. What does the enhancement of life consist of? The growth of bacteria? The improvement of the standard of living of one species or group over another? Population growth or maximization of ecological niche coverage on Earth? Anything can be seen as enhancing life. We stockpile nerve gas and nuclear weapons because we feel that it enhances our lives. People keep loaded guns under their pillow because it enhances their lives. It is apparent that people have very different ideas of what enhances life - in many cases opposite ideas. To me, linking good and evil to such a subjective definition is asking for trouble. Equating good with socially benevolent qualities seems more accurate and useful. Craig > but of course interpreting what that means > can differ from person to person. That's why we have > laws, either religious or legal ones. > > [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] > 1/3/2013 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen > > - Receiving the following content - > *From:* Craig Weinberg > *Receiver:* everything-list > *Time:* 2013-01-02, 12:07:03 > *Subject:* Re: Re: Re: The two basic theologies > > > > On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 6:29:55 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: >> >> Hi Craig Weinberg >> >> So what's good for one may be evil for another. >> No surprise there. That's why an overriding >> referee or judge (God) is necessary. >> > > Why would the relativity of value necessitate some kind of referee? Any > physical change robs one system of energy by increasing the energy of > another. Why should there be an independent judge watching over these > transactions? With sense instead of God, the weight of consequence is > within the experience itself, subjectively implicit rather than an > objectively explicit independent entity. > > >> >> [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] >> 1/2/2013 >> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen >> - Receiving the following content - >> From: Craig Weinberg >> Receiver: everything-list >> Time: 2013-01-01, 17:42:20 >> Subject: Re: Re: The two basic theologies >> >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, January 1, 2013 4:14:18 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote: >> Hi Craig Weinberg >> >> CRAIG: Enhance whose life though? >> >> ROGER: Anybody's life. >> >> Disinfectants destroy microbiotic life. >> >> >> >> CRAIG: Would slavery Good or Evil? >> >> ROGER: The masters diminish the life of the slaves. >> The slaves have their lives diminished. So there's >> no good in it at all. >> >> The slaves enhance the lives of their masters. Their masters have their >> lives enhanced. So there's as much good in it as not. >> >> >> >> CRAIG: What about promiscuity or dessert or yeast? >> >> ROGER: Promiscuity diminishes the value of love and commitment, >> hence of life. I have no opinions on dessert or yeast. >> >> Promiscuity without contraception enhances the number of pregnancies. If >> you have no opinion on the others, does that mean that they don't fit into >> the good/evil dichotomy? >> >> >> >> CRAIG: Is cell division good or evil? >> I would say that growth of healthy cells is goog because they enhance >> life. >> And growth of cancer cells is evil or bad because they can cause death. >> >> >> Cancer cells enhance their own life. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] >> 1/1/2013 >> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen >> - Receiving the following content - >> From: Craig Weinberg >> Receiver: everything-list >> Time: 2013-01-01, 15:03:10 >> Subject: Re: The two basic theologies >> >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, January 1, 2013 10:08:36 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: >> A Theology for Atheists >> >> There are two opposing forces in the universe, those which enhance >> life, which we call Good, and those which diminish life, which we call >> Evil. >> >> >> Enhance whose life though? Would slavery Good or Evil? What about >> promiscuity or dessert or yeast? Is cell division good or evil? >> >> Who determines what 'enhanced' or 'diminished' means? >> >> >> >> >> As evidenced, these can be present in both happenings and in people. >> >> We have the freedom to support either cause or not support one. >> >> >> Don't we support both at all times, just by being alive? >> >> >> -- >> >> >> A Theology for Theists >> >> The same holds as above, with the addition that there is some >> overriding intelligence which causes the happenings, good or >> evil, either preferably or acceptably. It can also read and/or inform >> our hearts. >> >> >> ---
Re: Re: Re: Re: The two basic theologies
Hi Craig Weinberg Enhancing Life is not a very arbitrary value, but of course interpreting what that means can differ from person to person. That's why we have laws, either religious or legal ones. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-02, 12:07:03 Subject: Re: Re: Re: The two basic theologies On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 6:29:55 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg So what's good for one may be evil for another. No surprise there. That's why an overriding referee or judge (God) is necessary. Why would the relativity of value necessitate some kind of referee? Any physical change robs one system of energy by increasing the energy of another. Why should there be an independent judge watching over these transactions? With sense instead of God, the weight of consequence is within the experience itself, subjectively implicit rather than an objectively explicit independent entity. [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 1/2/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-01, 17:42:20 Subject: Re: Re: The two basic theologies On Tuesday, January 1, 2013 4:14:18 PM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg CRAIG: Enhance whose life though? ROGER: Anybody's life. Disinfectants destroy microbiotic life. CRAIG: Would slavery Good or Evil? ROGER: The masters diminish the life of the slaves. The slaves have their lives diminished. So there's no good in it at all. The slaves enhance the lives of their masters. Their masters have their lives enhanced. So there's as much good in it as not. CRAIG: What about promiscuity or dessert or yeast? ROGER: Promiscuity diminishes the value of love and commitment, hence of life. I have no opinions on dessert or yeast. Promiscuity without contraception enhances the number of pregnancies. If you have no opinion on the others, does that mean that they don't fit into the good/evil dichotomy? CRAIG: Is cell division good or evil? I would say that growth of healthy cells is goog because they enhance life. And growth of cancer cells is evil or bad because they can cause death. Cancer cells enhance their own life. [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 1/1/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-01, 15:03:10 Subject: Re: The two basic theologies On Tuesday, January 1, 2013 10:08:36 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: A Theology for Atheists There are two opposing forces in the universe, those which enhance life, which we call Good, and those which diminish life, which we call Evil. Enhance whose life though? Would slavery Good or Evil? What about promiscuity or dessert or yeast? Is cell division good or evil? Who determines what 'enhanced' or 'diminished' means? As evidenced, these can be present in both happenings and in people. We have the freedom to support either cause or not support one. Don't we support both at all times, just by being alive? -- A Theology for Theists The same holds as above, with the addition that there is some overriding intelligence which causes the happenings, good or evil, either preferably or acceptably. It can also read and/or inform our hearts. -- [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 1/1/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/vlrEDOoV6-oJ. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/fnlB3WkwxW8J. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.g
