Re: Re: Re: Two "Leibnizian" proofs that God has the power ofself-reference
Roger, Your insults are unnecessary. I do not depend on you. I just think you are mostly wrong and unable to back up what you claim to be true, even about Leibniz. So you think Acquinas is the truth and therefore god. Sobeit. Richard On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:02 AM, Roger Clough wrote: > Hi Richard Ruquist > > Aquinas, being the truth, cannot be superceded. > I don't know anything about catholic fundamentalist churches, > but am suspicious that that's just a fantasy. > > The supreme monad is a critical feature without > which we would remain blind and paralyzed. > > You need to think through Leibniz's philosophy, not > depend on me like a child. > > > Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net > 9/6/2012 > Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him > so that everything could function." > > - Receiving the following content - > From: Richard Ruquist > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2012-09-06, 08:33:20 > Subject: Re: Re: Two "Leibnizian" proofs that God has the power > ofself-reference > > Roger, > > The Church has gone beyond Acquinas. It has a mechanism for evolving. > Fundamentalist churches and temples and mosques have no such mechanism. > Do not call me dishonest. I am still waiting for a link to where > Leibniz himself says there is a supreme monad. That concept does not > appear in his Monadology. > Richard > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:56 AM, Roger Clough wrote: >> Richard you are dishonest, especially if you are a catholic. I have posted >> this statement from Aquinas' Summa >> (like a bible to the catholic faith) to you previously. God is >> intelligence >> itself: >> >> http://dhspriory.org/thomas/Compendium.htm#31 >> >> >> "CHAPTER 31 >> >> IDENTITY BETWEEN GOD AND HIS INTELLIGENCE >> >> God must be His own intelligence. Since 搕o understand� is second act, for >> example, to consider, whereas the corresponding first act is the intellect >> or knowledge, >> >> any intellect that is not its own understanding is related to its >> understanding as potency to act. For in the order of potencies and acts, >> what is first >> >> is always potential with respect to what follows, and what is last is >> perfective. This is true only with reference to one and the same being, >> for >> among >> >> different beings the converse obtains; thus a mover and an agent are >> related >> to the thing moved and actuated as act to potency. In God, however, who is >> pure act, there is nothing that is related to anything else as potency to >> act. Accordingly God must be His own intelligence. >> >> Furthermore, the intellect is related to its act of understanding as >> essence >> is related to existence. But God understands through His essence, >> >> and His essence is His existence. Therefore His intellect is His act of >> understanding. And thus no composition is attributed to Him by the fact >> that >> >> He understands, since in Him intellect and understanding and intelligible >> species are not distinct; and these in turn are nothing else than His >> essence." >> >> >> >> This also applies to the supreme monad. >> >> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net >> 9/6/2012 >> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him >> so that everything could function." >> >> - Receiving the following content - >> From: Stephen P. King >> Receiver: everything-list >> Time: 2012-09-06, 07:35:30 >> Subject: Re: Two "Leibnizian" proofs that God has the power of >> self-reference >> >> Dear Richard, >> >> Would it be a heresy to consider that God could have partial but >> not complete self-reference? >> >> On 9/6/2012 7:24 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: >>> The Roman Catholic Church believes that god has intention but not >>> intelligence in agreement with Arithemetical Truth and neo-Platonism >>> concept that self-reference is not possible for god. >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Since Leibniz's metaphysics is perfectly logical, any logical proposition is true of his metaphysics. Two "Leibnizian" proofs that God has the power of self-reference 1. All monads with intellect can presumably have self-reference. 2. God is also a monad with intellect, being the supreme monad. 3. Therefore God has the power of self-reference 1. God is all-powerful (can do anything). 2. Self-reference is a power. 3. Therefore God has the power of self-reference. >> >> -- >> Onward! >> >> Stephen >> >> http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gr
Re: Re: Re: Two "Leibnizian" proofs that God has the power ofself-reference
Hi Richard Ruquist Aquinas, being the truth, cannot be superceded. I don't know anything about catholic fundamentalist churches, but am suspicious that that's just a fantasy. The supreme monad is a critical feature without which we would remain blind and paralyzed. You need to think through Leibniz's philosophy, not depend on me like a child. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/6/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-06, 08:33:20 Subject: Re: Re: Two "Leibnizian" proofs that God has the power ofself-reference Roger, The Church has gone beyond Acquinas. It has a mechanism for evolving. Fundamentalist churches and temples and mosques have no such mechanism. Do not call me dishonest. I am still waiting for a link to where Leibniz himself says there is a supreme monad. That concept does not appear in his Monadology. Richard On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:56 AM, Roger Clough wrote: > Richard you are dishonest, especially if you are a catholic. I have posted > this statement from Aquinas' Summa > (like a bible to the catholic faith) to you previously. God is intelligence > itself: > > http://dhspriory.org/thomas/Compendium.htm#31 > > > "CHAPTER 31 > > IDENTITY BETWEEN GOD AND HIS INTELLIGENCE > > God must be His own intelligence. Since ?o understand? is second act, for > example, to consider, whereas the corresponding first act is the intellect > or knowledge, > > any intellect that is not its own understanding is related to its > understanding as potency to act. For in the order of potencies and acts, > what is first > > is always potential with respect to what follows, and what is last is > perfective. This is true only with reference to one and the same being, for > among > > different beings the converse obtains; thus a mover and an agent are related > to the thing moved and actuated as act to potency. In God, however, who is > pure act, there is nothing that is related to anything else as potency to > act. Accordingly God must be His own intelligence. > > Furthermore, the intellect is related to its act of understanding as essence > is related to existence. But God understands through His essence, > > and His essence is His existence. Therefore His intellect is His act of > understanding. And thus no composition is attributed to Him by the fact that > > He understands, since in Him intellect and understanding and intelligible > species are not distinct; and these in turn are nothing else than His > essence." > > > > This also applies to the supreme monad. > > Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net > 9/6/2012 > Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him > so that everything could function." > > - Receiving the following content - > From: Stephen P. King > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2012-09-06, 07:35:30 > Subject: Re: Two "Leibnizian" proofs that God has the power of > self-reference > > Dear Richard, > > Would it be a heresy to consider that God could have partial but > not complete self-reference? > > On 9/6/2012 7:24 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: >> The Roman Catholic Church believes that god has intention but not >> intelligence in agreement with Arithemetical Truth and neo-Platonism >> concept that self-reference is not possible for god. >> >> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Roger Clough wrote: >>> Since Leibniz's metaphysics is perfectly logical, any logical >>> proposition is true of his metaphysics. >>> >>> >>> Two "Leibnizian" proofs that God has the power of self-reference >>> >>> 1. All monads with intellect can presumably have self-reference. >>> 2. God is also a monad with intellect, being the supreme monad. >>> 3. Therefore God has the power of self-reference >>> >>> 1. God is all-powerful (can do anything). >>> 2. Self-reference is a power. >>> 3. Therefore God has the power of self-reference. >>> >>> > > -- > Onward! > > Stephen > > http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googl
