Re: Re: a system of oppression?
Hi Stephen P. King One man's oppression is another man's guiding light. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-27, 14:51:04 Subject: Re: a system of oppression? On 1/27/2013 2:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:34:37 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: What I really what to know is: what motivates the need to find oppression? What motivates the need to deny oppression? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppression ''Oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.[1] It can also be defined as an act or instance of oppressing, the state of being oppressed, and the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, and anxiety. My argument is that the entire idea of oppresion is flawed unless there is a clear and objective means to show the metrics that is used. What defines burdensome, cruelty, unjust? All subjective eye-of-the-beholder valuations. Oppression cannot be objectively defined, as I previously pointed out how one could claim a state of oppression and there is no way to measurable show that the oppression does not exist - it is impossible to prove a negative. Oppression now become a means to oppress itself, to pit one group against another. So I ask, what is the motivation to even consider the idea of oppression if not to inject subjectivity further into relations between humans that already hard enough to figure out? When one can look at the measurable results of policies and find where and when people thrive and where and when they do not, there is no need to even mention the word oppression or injustice. When evaluating policies, does it not only matter that the results are beneficial by some agreeable measure so that we can cast aside all subjective aspects? We can see in history that collectivist policies have almost uniformly caused harm (measureable in the numbers of people in mass graves), so why do they keep being tried? -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Re: a system of oppression?
Hi Craig, Or belief in socialism/communism, such as you. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-26, 11:55:22 Subject: Re: a system of oppression? On 1/26/2013 11:45 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:36:45 AM UTC-5, JohnM wrote: Craig, I read many of your posts, none was so pessimistic so far. Ah, maybe I was being more sarcastic than the internet allows. I was intending to mock those ideas by quoting Scrooge, as I think that there is nothing further from the truth than the idea that character is completely independent from their circumstance - that people with no shoes can pull themselves up by their bootstraps or who have been born into a system of oppression can free themselves by belief in the free market or some such thing. Craig Hey! What exactly is a system of oppression? Could you describe an actual situation in Nature that is oppression-free? -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Re: a system of oppression?
Opression ? Consider socialism. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-26, 12:28:01 Subject: Re: a system of oppression? On 1/26/2013 12:13 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:55:22 AM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 1/26/2013 11:45 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:36:45 AM UTC-5, JohnM wrote: Craig, I read many of your posts, none was so pessimistic so far. Ah, maybe I was being more sarcastic than the internet allows. I was intending to mock those ideas by quoting Scrooge, as I think that there is nothing further from the truth than the idea that character is completely independent from their circumstance - that people with no shoes can pull themselves up by their bootstraps or who have been born into a system of oppression can free themselves by belief in the free market or some such thing. Craig Hey! What exactly is a system of oppression? Could you describe an actual situation in Nature that is oppression-free? Slavery, or apartheid are systems of intentional oppression, but poverty in a land of plenty is oppressive also, even if oppression of the poor is an unintentional effect. If it takes two million peasants to prop up one Imelda Marcos, then being born into the system which does that is an oppressive one, and not one which you can escape by adopting a positive attitude. Just because life isn't free of oppression doesn't mean that if an Imelda Marcos manages to tyrannize a country that it is the will of Nature. To the contrary, the will of Nature is for the oppressed to kill and eat their oppressors at the earliest opportunity. Craig Hi Craig, Setting the drama of humanity aside, can you point to some actual cases of this in Nature? Any deer oppressed to kill and eat their oppressors [wolves] at the earliest opportunity? No! I dare say that you are building a flawed argument on a flawed premise. I submit the entire idea of oppression, as you are using it, is a figment of human imagination. We humans have the unique ability to behave in ways that do not actually solve problems but instead just make us feel better about our crappy living conditions and the problem that is causing us pain does unchecked. Every case in history where the oppressed to kill and eat their oppressors at the earliest opportunity was one of chaos and malice, nothing good ever came of it alone. It is only when we face our situations factually and rationally and solve the problems that we improve our situations. Let's consider the case of Imelda. How was it that she was able to do what she did? She had the force of government to implement her 'oppresion. I submit to you that it is government that is unique in its ability to oppress, as it has the monopoly on the *legal* use of force. Any line of reasoning that leads to the implication that government (or a proxy thereof) can can alleviate or otherwise assuage oppresion is only substituting one Imelda for another. -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Re: a system of oppression?
On Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:16:59 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Craig, Or belief in socialism/communism, such as you. I don't 'believe in' socialism/communism. I observe that a healthy civilization integrates private and public values, just like a healthy psyche does the same. When there is an overgrowth of private interest into common resources, there is pathology, just as when public interest intrudes on the privacy of our bodies and morals there is pathology. The fire department is socialism. The library is socialism. Public roads are socialism. If I were to 'believe in' a political form, it would be in a central support for organized socio-political experimentation. The goal should be for everyone to be able to live in a place where the law of the land suits their comfort and opportunity more than other places. Craig - Receiving the following content - *From:* Stephen P. King javascript: *Receiver:* everything-list javascript: *Time:* 2013-01-26, 11:55:22 *Subject:* Re: a system of oppression? On 1/26/2013 11:45 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:36:45 AM UTC-5, JohnM wrote: Craig, I read many of your posts, none was so pessimistic so far. Ah, maybe I was being more sarcastic than the internet allows. I was intending to mock those ideas by quoting Scrooge, as I think that there is nothing further from the truth than the idea that character is completely independent from their circumstance - that people with no shoes can pull themselves up by their bootstraps or who have been born into a system of oppression can free themselves by belief in the free market or some such thing. Craig Hey! What exactly is a system of oppression? Could you describe an actual situation in Nature that is oppression-free? -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
