Re: Tackling Information

2012-06-18 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, June 16, 2012 12:56:39 PM UTC-4, John K Clark wrote: It's true that as I've described it using nothing but English it does sound a little subjective and vague about where exactly the transition between micro and macro states occurs, however if you use mathematics you can

Re: Tackling Information

2012-06-18 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, June 16, 2012 3:55:03 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: Thanks, that make my point exactly: This entropy, H(S|O), depends on the information that a given observer, O, has about S, and the work necessary to erase a system may therefore vary for different observers. Craig Or have a look

Re: Tackling Information

2012-06-16 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: It's true that as I've described it using nothing but English it does sound a little subjective and vague about where exactly the transition between micro and macro states occurs, however if you use mathematics you can become

Re: Tackling Information

2012-06-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, June 14, 2012 7:01:45 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: If you turn that understanding around though, you will solve the hard problem: The micro-state description has lots of information missing, but the absence is in a form that you need a macroscopic human observer (with or without a

Re: Tackling Information

2012-06-14 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: There seems to be a lot of confusion resulting from Shannon’shttp://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/ms/what/shannonday/shannon1948.pdfuse of the term entropy, and conflating it with thermodynamic entropy. I maintain that Shannon

Re: Tackling Information

2012-06-14 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:21:07 PM UTC-4, John K Clark wrote: Physical entropy is a measure of the number of micro-states something can be in without changing its macro-state. A bucket of water can be in many many micro-states and yet the end result of them all would still look and act

Re: Tackling Information

2012-06-14 Thread meekerdb
On 6/14/2012 2:34 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: additions for clarity: I have a glass of ice (low physical entropy). I make a movie of the ice melting so that it takes one hour to melt completely. Then I keep the camera rolling for another hour at the glass of water. I compress them as mpegs and