Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-21 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
I have browsed papers on Loebian embodiment, for example Life, Mind, and Robots The Ins and Outs of Embodied Cognition Hybrid Neural Systems, 2000 - Springer

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Aug 2011, at 23:32, meekerdb wrote: On 8/19/2011 2:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: So do you have a LISP program that will make my computer Lobian? It would be easier to do it by hands: 1) develop a first order logic specification for your computer (that is a first order axiomatic for

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Aug 2011, at 08:48, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I have browsed papers on Loebian embodiment, for example Life, Mind, and Robots The Ins and Outs of Embodied Cognition Hybrid Neural Systems, 2000 - Springer

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Aug 2011, at 20:18, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 18.08.2011 16:24 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 17 Aug 2011, at 20:07, meekerdb wrote: On 8/17/2011 10:36 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 16.08.2011 20:47 meekerdb said the following: On 8/16/2011 11:03 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Yes,

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 18 Aug 2011, at 20:02, meekerdb wrote: On 8/18/2011 10:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 18 Aug 2011, at 19:05, meekerdb wrote: On 8/18/2011 7:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I agree with that sentiment. That's why I often try to think of consciousness in terms of what it would mean to

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-19 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 18.08.2011 16:24 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 17 Aug 2011, at 20:07, meekerdb wrote: On 8/17/2011 10:36 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 16.08.2011 20:47 meekerdb said the following: On 8/16/2011 11:03 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Yes, this is why in my first post, I said consider

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-19 Thread meekerdb
On 8/19/2011 2:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: So do you have a LISP program that will make my computer Lobian? It would be easier to do it by hands: 1) develop a first order logic specification for your computer (that is a first order axiomatic for its data structures, including the elementary

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Aug 2011, at 19:49, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 17.08.2011 02:01 Jason Resch said the following: On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru wrote: On 15.08.2011 23:42 Jason Resch said the following: ... But all of this is an aside from point that I was making

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Aug 2011, at 20:07, meekerdb wrote: On 8/17/2011 10:36 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 16.08.2011 20:47 meekerdb said the following: On 8/16/2011 11:03 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Yes, this is why in my first post, I said consider God's Turing machine (free from our limitations). Then it

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-18 Thread meekerdb
On 8/18/2011 7:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I agree with that sentiment. That's why I often try to think of consciousness in terms of what it would mean to provide a Mars Rover with consciousness. According to Bruno the ones we've sent to Mars were already conscious, since their computers

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 18 Aug 2011, at 19:05, meekerdb wrote: On 8/18/2011 7:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I agree with that sentiment. That's why I often try to think of consciousness in terms of what it would mean to provide a Mars Rover with consciousness. According to Bruno the ones we've sent to Mars

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-18 Thread meekerdb
On 8/18/2011 10:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 18 Aug 2011, at 19:05, meekerdb wrote: On 8/18/2011 7:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I agree with that sentiment. That's why I often try to think of consciousness in terms of what it would mean to provide a Mars Rover with consciousness.

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-17 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 16, 10:24 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 3:16 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 16, 10:08 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: Our body precisely follows the deterministic biochemical reactions that

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-17 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 17, 12:01 am, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 8/16/2011 6:57 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Consciousness is a very broad term, with different meanings especially in different contexts; medical vs philosophical vs vernacular, macrocosmic vs microcosmic, legal, ethical, etc. For

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-17 Thread benjayk
Jason Resch-2 wrote: On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 9:32 AM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote: Jason Resch-2 wrote: On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:03 AM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote: Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 15, 10:43 pm, Jason Resch

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-17 Thread meekerdb
On 8/17/2011 4:53 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 17, 12:01 am, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 8/16/2011 6:57 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Consciousness is a very broad term, with different meanings especially in different contexts; medical vs philosophical vs vernacular,

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-17 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 16.08.2011 20:47 meekerdb said the following: On 8/16/2011 11:03 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Yes, this is why in my first post, I said consider God's Turing machine (free from our limitations). Then it is obvious that with the appropriate tape, a physical system can be approximated to any

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-17 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 17.08.2011 02:01 Jason Resch said the following: On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru wrote: On 15.08.2011 23:42 Jason Resch said the following: ... But all of this is an aside from point that I was making regarding the power and versatility of Turing

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-17 Thread meekerdb
On 8/17/2011 10:36 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 16.08.2011 20:47 meekerdb said the following: On 8/16/2011 11:03 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Yes, this is why in my first post, I said consider God's Turing machine (free from our limitations). Then it is obvious that with the appropriate tape, a

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-17 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 17, 1:30 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: But they are not all consciousness = awareness-of-awareness.  And the decision to act precedes the awareness of the decision - which is evidence against the idea the consciousness is in control of one's decisions, c.f. Grey Walter

RE: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Colin Geoffrey Hales
On 8/15/2011 7:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote: just like you can simulate flight if you simulate the environment you are flying in. But do we need to simulate the entire atmosphere in order to simulate flight, or just the atmosphere in the immediate area around the surfaces of the plane?

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: You can simulate it as far as being able to model the aspects of it's behavior that you can observe, but you can't necessarily predict that behavior over time, any more than you can predict what other people might

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Colin Geoffrey Hales cgha...@unimelb.edu.au wrote: 1) simulation of the chemistry or physics underlying the brain is impossible It’s quite possible, just irrelevant! ‘Chemistry’ and ‘physics’ are terms for models of the natural world used to describe how

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread benjayk
Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 15, 10:43 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: I am more worried for the biologically handicapped in the future.  Computers will get faster, brains won't.  By 2029, it is predicted $1,000 worth of computer will buy a human brain's worth of computational

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 10:03 PM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com wrote: Also, we have no reliable way of measuring the computational power of the brain, not to speak of the possibly existing subtle energies that go beyond the brain, that may be essential to our functioning. The way

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:03 AM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote: Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 15, 10:43 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: I am more worried for the biologically handicapped in the future. Computers will get faster, brains won't. By 2029, it

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 16, 3:22 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: You can simulate it as far as being able to model the aspects of it's behavior that you can observe, but you can't necessarily predict that

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: On Aug 16, 3:22 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: You can simulate it as far as being able to model the aspects of it's

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 16, 8:03 am, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com wrote: Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 15, 10:43 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: I am more worried for the biologically handicapped in the future.  Computers will get faster, brains won't.  By 2029, it is predicted

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: If the brain does something not predictable by modelling its biochemistry that means it works by magic. Then you are saying that whether you accept what I'm what I'm writing here or not is purely predictable

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 Aug 2011, at 08:08, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: On 8/15/2011 7:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote: just like you can simulate flight if you simulate the environment you are flying in. But do we need to simulate the entire atmosphere in order to simulate flight, or just the atmosphere in the

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 16, 8:10 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 10:03 PM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com wrote: Also, we have no reliable way of measuring the computational power of the brain, not to speak of the possibly existing subtle energies that go

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread benjayk
Jason Resch-2 wrote: On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:03 AM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote: Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 15, 10:43 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: I am more worried for the biologically handicapped in the future. Computers will get faster,

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread benjayk
Stathis Papaioannou-2 wrote: On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 10:03 PM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com wrote: Also, we have no reliable way of measuring the computational power of the brain, not to speak of the possibly existing subtle energies that go beyond the brain, that may be

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 16, 10:08 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: Our body precisely follows the deterministic biochemical reactions that comprise it. The mind is generated as a result of these biochemical reactions; a reaction occurs in your brain which causes you to have a thought to move

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread meekerdb
On 8/15/2011 11:08 PM, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: On 8/15/2011 7:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote: just like you can simulate flight if you simulate the environment you are flying in. But do we need to simulate the entire atmosphere in order to simulate flight, or just the atmosphere in

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread meekerdb
On 8/16/2011 7:08 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: Our body precisely follows the deterministic biochemical reactions that comprise it. The mind is generated as a result of these biochemical reactions; a reaction occurs in your brain which causes you to have a thought to move your arm and move

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread meekerdb
On 8/16/2011 7:50 AM, benjayk wrote: And the problem with the reductionist view is? It seeks to dissect reality into pieces, And also to explain how the pieces interact in reality. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread meekerdb
On 8/16/2011 10:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: It's not only possible, it absolutely is otherwise. I move my arm. I determine the biochemical reactions that move it. Me. For my personal reasons which are knowable to me in my own natural language and are utterly unknowable by biochemical analysis.

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 15.08.2011 23:42 Jason Resch said the following: On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru wrote: On 15.08.2011 07:56 Jason Resch said the following: ... Can we accurately simulate physical laws or can't we? Before you answer, take a few minutes to watch this

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 16.08.2011 16:08 Stathis Papaioannou said the following: On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Craig Weinbergwhatsons...@gmail.com wrote: If the brain does something not predictable by modelling its biochemistry that means it works by magic. Then you are saying that whether you accept what

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread benjayk
meekerdb wrote: On 8/16/2011 7:50 AM, benjayk wrote: And the problem with the reductionist view is? It seeks to dissect reality into pieces, And also to explain how the pieces interact in reality. Right, otherwise there is little use in dissecting. But the very concept of

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread meekerdb
On 8/16/2011 11:03 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Yes, this is why in my first post, I said consider God's Turing machine (free from our limitations). Then it is obvious that with the appropriate tape, a physical system can be approximated to any desired level of accuracy so long as it is

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread meekerdb
On 8/16/2011 11:31 AM, benjayk wrote: meekerdb wrote: On 8/16/2011 7:50 AM, benjayk wrote: And the problem with the reductionist view is? It seeks to dissect reality into pieces, And also to explain how the pieces interact in reality.

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 16, 1:44 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 8/16/2011 10:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: It's not only possible, it absolutely is otherwise. I move my arm. I determine the biochemical reactions that move it. Me. For my personal reasons which are knowable to me in my own

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread meekerdb
On 8/16/2011 12:37 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 16, 1:44 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 8/16/2011 10:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: It's not only possible, it absolutely is otherwise. I move my arm. I determine the biochemical reactions that move it. Me. For my

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: On 15.08.2011 23:42 Jason Resch said the following: On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru wrote: On 15.08.2011 07:56 Jason Resch said the following: ... Can we accurately simulate

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 9:32 AM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote: Jason Resch-2 wrote: On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:03 AM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote: Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 15, 10:43 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: I am more

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 16, 7:35 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 8/16/2011 12:37 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 16, 1:44 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net  wrote: On 8/16/2011 10:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: It's not only possible, it absolutely is otherwise. I move my arm. I

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 3:16 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 16, 10:08 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: Our body precisely follows the deterministic biochemical reactions that comprise it. The mind is generated as a result of these biochemical

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-16 Thread meekerdb
On 8/16/2011 6:57 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 16, 7:35 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 8/16/2011 12:37 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Aug 16, 1:44 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.netwrote: On 8/16/2011 10:16 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:

RE: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Colin Geoffrey Hales
Read all your commentscutting/snipping to the chase... [Jason ] Your belief that AGI is impossible to achieve through computers depends on at least one of the following propositions being true: 1. Accurate simulation of the chemistry or physics underlying the brain is impossible 2. Human

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
Jason Colin, I'm going to just try to address everything in one reply. I agree with Colin pretty much down the line. My position assumes that worldview as axiomatic and then adds some hypotheses on top of that. Jason, your original list of questions are all predicated on the very assumption that

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 2:06 AM, Colin Geoffrey Hales cgha...@unimelb.edu.au wrote: Read all your commentscutting/snipping to the chase... ** It is a little unfortunate you did not answer all of the questions. I hope that you will answer both questions (1) and (2) below. **

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 15.08.2011 07:56 Jason Resch said the following: ... Can we accurately simulate physical laws or can't we? Before you answer, take a few minutes to watch this amazing video, which simulates the distribution of mass throughout the universe on the largest scales:

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
see if this helps.. http://s33light.org/post/8963930299 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: On 15.08.2011 07:56 Jason Resch said the following: ... Can we accurately simulate physical laws or can't we? Before you answer, take a few minutes to watch this amazing video, which simulates the distribution of

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 15, 5:42 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: We're already simulating peices of brain tissue on the order of fruit fly brains (10,000 neurons).  Computers double in power/price every year, so 6 years later we could simulate mouse brains, another 6 we can simulate cat brains,

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 15, 5:42 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: We're already simulating peices of brain tissue on the order of fruit fly brains (10,000 neurons). Computers double in power/price every year, so 6 years later we could simulate mouse brains, another 6 we can simulate cat brains,

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: On Aug 15, 5:42 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: We're already simulating peices of brain tissue on the order of fruit fly brains (10,000 neurons). Computers double in power/price every year, so 6

RE: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Colin Geoffrey Hales
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 2:06 AM, Colin Geoffrey Hales cgha...@unimelb.edu.au wrote: Read all your commentscutting/snipping to the chase... It is a little unfortunate you did not answer all of the questions. I hope that you will answer both questions (1) and (2) below. Yeah sorry about

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Colin Geoffrey Hales cgha...@unimelb.edu.au wrote: On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 2:06 AM, Colin Geoffrey Hales cgha...@unimelb.edu.au wrote: Read all your commentscutting/snipping to the chase... It is a little unfortunate you did not answer all of

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread meekerdb
On 8/15/2011 4:18 PM, Jason Resch wrote: You seem to accept that computing power is doubling every year. The fruit fly has 10^5 neurons, a mouse 10^7, a cat 10^9, and a human 10^11. It's only a matter of time (and not that much) before a $10 thumb drive will have enough memory to store a

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Jason Resch
I am more worried for the biologically handicapped in the future. Computers will get faster, brains won't. By 2029, it is predicted $1,000 worth of computer will buy a human brain's worth of computational power. 15 years later, you can get 1,000 X the human brain's power for $1,000. Imagine:

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread meekerdb
On 8/15/2011 7:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote: just like you can simulate flight if you simulate the environment you are flying in. But do we need to simulate the entire atmosphere in order to simulate flight, or just the atmosphere in the immediate area around the surfaces of the plane?

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 15, 7:18 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: Try this one, it is among the best I have found:http://www.ivona.com/online/editor.php It's nicer, but still not significantly more convincing than the

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 15, 8:21 pm, Colin Geoffrey Hales cgha...@unimelb.edu.au wrote: On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 2:06 AM, Colin Geoffrey Hales The solution is: there is/can be no simulation in an artificial cognition. It has to use the same processes a brain uses: literally. This is the replication approach.

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 15, 10:08 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: It would be a very surprising theoretical result. Only if you have a very sentimental attachment to the theory. It wouldn't surprise me at all. Who cares? The main thing is *we can do it using replication*. What is the difference

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 15, 10:43 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: I am more worried for the biologically handicapped in the future.  Computers will get faster, brains won't.  By 2029, it is predicted $1,000 worth of computer will buy a human brain's worth of computational power.  15 years later,

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-14 Thread Jason Resch
Craig, Thanks for the video, it is truly impressive. Jason On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3keLeMwfHY Does the idea of this machine solve the Hard Problem of Consciousness, or are qualia something more than ideas?

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 14 Aug 2011, at 16:38, Craig Weinberg wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3keLeMwfHY Does the idea of this machine solve the Hard Problem of Consciousness, or are qualia something more than ideas? Quite cute little physical implementation of a Turing machine. Read Sane04, it explains

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-14 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 14, 11:50 am, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: Craig, Thanks for the video, it is truly impressive. Jason Oh glad you liked it. I agree, what a beautifully engineered project. Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-14 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 14, 1:39 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 14 Aug 2011, at 16:38, Craig Weinberg wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3keLeMwfHY Does the idea of this machine solve the Hard Problem of Consciousness, or are qualia something more than ideas? Quite cute little physical

RE: Turing Machines

2011-08-14 Thread Colin Geoffrey Hales
Of Jason Resch Sent: Monday, 15 August 2011 1:50 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Turing Machines Craig, Thanks for the video, it is truly impressive. Jason On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-14 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Aug 14, 7:29 pm, Colin Geoffrey Hales cgha...@unimelb.edu.au wrote: Great video ... a picture of simplicity Q. 'What is it like to be a Turing Machine? = Hard Problem. A. It's like being the pile of gear in the video, NO MATTER WHAT IS ON THE TAPE. Why doesn't it matter what's on the

RE: Turing Machines

2011-08-14 Thread Colin Geoffrey Hales
-Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Weinberg Sent: Monday, 15 August 2011 10:07 AM To: Everything List Subject: Re: Turing Machines On Aug 14, 7:29 pm, Colin Geoffrey Hales cgha...@unimelb.edu.au wrote

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-14 Thread Jason Resch
: Re: Turing Machines On Aug 14, 7:29 pm, Colin Geoffrey Hales cgha...@unimelb.edu.au wrote: Great video ... a picture of simplicity Q. 'What is it like to be a Turing Machine? = Hard Problem. A. It's like being the pile of gear in the video, NO MATTER WHAT IS ON THE TAPE. Why

RE: Turing Machines

2011-08-14 Thread Colin Geoffrey Hales
Colin and Craig, Imagine that God has such a machine on his desk, which he uses to compute the updated positions of each particle in some universe over each unit of Planck time. Would you agree it is possible for the following to occur in the simulation: 1. Stars to coalesce due to gravity and

Re: Turing Machines

2011-08-14 Thread Jason Resch
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 12:13 AM, Colin Geoffrey Hales cgha...@unimelb.edu.au wrote: Colin and Craig, Imagine that God has such a machine on his desk, which he uses to compute the updated positions of each particle in some universe over each unit of Planck time. Would you agree it is

Re: turing machines = boolean algebras ?

2002-11-26 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear Ben and Bruno, Your discussions are fascinating! I have one related and pehaps even trivial question: What is the relationship between the class of Turing Machines and the class of Boolean Algebras? Is one a subset of the other? Kindest regards, Stephen

RE: turing machines = boolean algebras ?

2002-11-26 Thread Ben Goertzel
primitives. -- Ben G -Original Message- From: Stephen Paul King [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: turing machines = boolean algebras ? Dear Ben and Bruno, Your discussions are fascinating! I have one related

Re: Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Life)

2000-05-22 Thread Jacques Mallah
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Turing Machines have no real time clock ... If we assume the comp hypothesis (purely based on Turing machines) and the anthropic principle, then the flow of consciousness can only be constrained by the logical nature of the links

Re: Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Life)

2000-05-21 Thread GSLevy
In a message dated 05/21/2000 3:21:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Turing Machines have no real time clock and no interrupt. If we assume the comp hypothesis (purely based on Turing machines) and the anthropic principle, then

Re: Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Life)

2000-01-25 Thread David Lloyd-Jones
Hal Finney writes: Russell Standish, [EMAIL PROTECTED], writes: Why do you think the only possibilities are that the universe is either discrete or continuous? For example, the space Q^4 (4-D space built from rational numbers) is neither. Rational numbers are continuous, by the typical

Re: Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Li

2000-01-17 Thread Marchal
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the world was not quantized the comp hypothesis would not hold. Only if my generalised brain is the entire universe. Look at my discussion with Niklas Thisel. Comp entails that, from the first person perspective some universal feature of our observable neighborhood

Re: Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Life)

2000-01-15 Thread GSLevy
In a message dated 01/14/2000 1:48:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your first sentence is complete codswallop, and your second sentence is bizarre. Prove it! In a message dated 01/13/2000 5:58:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Re: Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Life)

2000-01-14 Thread Russell Standish
Your first sentence is complete codswallop, and your second sentence is bizarre. Prove it! In a message dated 01/13/2000 5:58:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Who say's the world is quantized? If the world was not quantized the comp hypothesis would not hold. In

Re: Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Life)

2000-01-13 Thread GSLevy
In a message dated 01/13/2000 5:58:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Who say's the world is quantized? If the world was not quantized the comp hypothesis would not hold. In fact, It would be impossible for physical constants to have any definite value, since there would