Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Mar 2015, at 00:08, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2015 2:58 PM, LizR wrote: On 2 March 2015 at 11:12, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 3/1/2015 1:39 PM, LizR wrote: If Bruno uses God to mean an origin, perhaps he should call it 0 (zero) or { } - the empty set? I think he wants to

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 03 Mar 2015, at 21:03, PGC wrote: On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 at 6:32:27 PM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: As Kronecker said, Die ganze Zahl schuf der liebe Gott, alles Übrige ist Menschenwerk. Ah, thanks for the original text. The comp variant is Die ganze Zahl schuf der liebe Gott,

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 Mar 2015, at 23:47, meekerdb wrote: On 3/8/2015 2:07 PM, LizR wrote: On 9 March 2015 at 05:36, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 07 Mar 2015, at 09:36, LizR wrote: I thought P meant P was possible? In the alethic interpretation of modal logic, means possible, and [] means

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 Mar 2015, at 22:07, LizR wrote: On 9 March 2015 at 05:36, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 07 Mar 2015, at 09:36, LizR wrote: I thought P meant P was possible? In the alethic interpretation of modal logic, means possible, and [] means necessary. Before I get lost in

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-08 Thread LizR
On 9 March 2015 at 05:36, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 07 Mar 2015, at 09:36, LizR wrote: I thought P meant P was possible? In the alethic interpretation of modal logic, means possible, and [] means necessary. Before I get lost in logic, just going by the verbal

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-08 Thread meekerdb
On 3/8/2015 2:07 PM, LizR wrote: On 9 March 2015 at 05:36, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 07 Mar 2015, at 09:36, LizR wrote: I thought P meant P was possible? In the alethic interpretation of modal logic, means possible, and [] means

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-08 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 07 Mar 2015, at 09:36, LizR wrote: I thought P meant P was possible? In the alethic interpretation of modal logic, means possible, and [] means necessary. In the temporal interpretation of modal logic, means sometime, and [] means always. In the locus interpretation of modal logic,

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 07 Mar 2015, at 02:51, meekerdb wrote: On 3/6/2015 7:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: That might depend on the context. Usually, in our computationalist context it means true in the standard model of arithmetic, which is this reality if you want. In the modal context, it means true in this

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-06 Thread meekerdb
On 3/6/2015 7:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: That might depend on the context. Usually, in our computationalist context it means true in the standard model of arithmetic, which is this reality if you want. In the modal context, it means true in this world (which in our arithmetical context is

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-06 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 05 Mar 2015, at 20:34, meekerdb wrote: On 3/5/2015 10:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 04 Mar 2015, at 23:05, meekerdb wrote: On 3/4/2015 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Feb 2015, at 20:40, Samiya Illias wrote: My faith encourages me to pursue the sciences, to use my faculties

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-05 Thread meekerdb
On 3/5/2015 10:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 04 Mar 2015, at 23:05, meekerdb wrote: On 3/4/2015 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Feb 2015, at 20:40, Samiya Illias wrote: My faith encourages me to pursue the sciences, to use my faculties and intelligence for reason and logic, and the

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-05 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 04 Mar 2015, at 23:05, meekerdb wrote: On 3/4/2015 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Feb 2015, at 20:40, Samiya Illias wrote: My faith encourages me to pursue the sciences, to use my faculties and intelligence for reason and logic, and the study of the sciences is not doubt.

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 13 Feb 2015, at 20:40, Samiya Illias wrote: My faith encourages me to pursue the sciences, to use my faculties and intelligence for reason and logic, and the study of the sciences is not doubt. Doubt is the lack of faith! I am not sure I commented on this. It might be the heart of the

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-04 Thread meekerdb
On 3/4/2015 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Feb 2015, at 20:40, Samiya Illias wrote: My faith encourages me to pursue the sciences, to use my faculties and intelligence for reason and logic, and the study of the sciences is not doubt. Doubt is the lack of faith! I am not sure I

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-04 Thread John Mikes
This and the next post of yours are classic. In the next one you cast doubt on our space-based worldview - I was waiting for the next step: the TIME_BASED doubt. * Bruno quoted Samiya concluding: *Doubt is the lack of faith!* - and I could not keep my agnostic mind from reversing this into:

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Mar 2015, at 20:16, Samiya Illias wrote: On 01-Mar-2015, at 8:40 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 01 Mar 2015, at 13:01, Samiya Illias wrote: On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 3:21 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 28 Feb 2015, at 19:33, Samiya Illias wrote:

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Mar 2015, at 22:39, LizR wrote: If Bruno uses God to mean an origin, perhaps he should call it 0 (zero) or { } - the empty set? I can like 0 and 2 as the primordial Goddesse, enclosing the old fashioned male God who thought he was the source of all things, but he was just a child

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-03 Thread PGC
On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 at 6:32:27 PM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: As Kronecker said, Die ganze Zahl schuf der liebe Gott, alles Übrige ist Menschenwerk. Ah, thanks for the original text. The comp variant is Die ganze Zahl schuf der liebe Gott, alles Übrige ist Zahlwerk.

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Mar 2015, at 23:58, LizR wrote: On 2 March 2015 at 11:12, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 3/1/2015 1:39 PM, LizR wrote: If Bruno uses God to mean an origin, perhaps he should call it 0 (zero) or { } - the empty set? I think he wants to mean the underlying basis of everything,

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-03 Thread LizR
On 4 March 2015 at 06:17, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 01 Mar 2015, at 22:39, LizR wrote: If Bruno uses God to mean an origin, perhaps he should call it 0 (zero) or { } - the empty set? I can like 0 and 2 as the primordial Goddesse, enclosing the old fashioned male God who

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-03 Thread LizR
On 4 March 2015 at 09:03, PGC multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote: But I think we can say god mostly forgives syntax error of this sort, without huge danger of blasphemy. PGC Unless they cause the universe to crash. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-03 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Mar 2015, at 23:12, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2015 1:39 PM, LizR wrote: If Bruno uses God to mean an origin, perhaps he should call it 0 (zero) or { } - the empty set? I think he wants to mean the underlying basis of everything, not just a beginning, but a sustaining basis - and he

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-01 Thread John Mikes
Schoppenhauer? On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 4:39 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: If Bruno uses God to mean an origin, perhaps he should call it 0 (zero) or { } - the empty set? I am not sure what evidence there is for a creator, but even if there is such evidence that doesn't answer the

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-01 Thread meekerdb
On 3/1/2015 2:58 PM, LizR wrote: On 2 March 2015 at 11:12, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 3/1/2015 1:39 PM, LizR wrote: If Bruno uses God to mean an origin, perhaps he should call it 0 (zero) or { } - the empty set? I think he

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-01 Thread LizR
If Bruno uses God to mean an origin, perhaps he should call it 0 (zero) or { } - the empty set? I am not sure what evidence there is for a creator, but even if there is such evidence that doesn't answer the question at the top of the thread - Why is there something rather than nothing? It just

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-01 Thread meekerdb
OOPs Should written 8 not 10. Changed my mind about the words without changing the number. Brent On 3/1/2015 3:08 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2015 2:58 PM, LizR wrote: On 2 March 2015 at 11:12, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 3/1/2015 1:39 PM, LizR

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-01 Thread LizR
On 2 March 2015 at 12:08, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Until you reflect that logic is just about relations between concepts we made up - so maybe logically necessary isn't so necessary after all. I find it interesting that a lot of logically necessary truths were contradicted by

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-01 Thread meekerdb
On 3/1/2015 4:00 PM, LizR wrote: On 2 March 2015 at 12:08, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Until you reflect that logic is just about relations between concepts we made up - so maybe logically necessary isn't so necessary after all. I find it

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-01 Thread Samiya Illias
John, thank you for sharing your thoughts and narrative. i'm not sure anyone can provide an 'acceptable explanation' of the Creator/Originator. I think it is simply beyond our comprehension. However, I do believe that there is an overwhelming evidence of creation/origination, thus implying a

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-01 Thread Samiya Illias
On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 3:21 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 28 Feb 2015, at 19:33, Samiya Illias wrote: On 28-Feb-2015, at 11:00 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 27 Feb 2015, at 12:56, Samiya Illias wrote: Why don't you just call it One with a capital O

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-01 Thread meekerdb
On 3/1/2015 1:39 PM, LizR wrote: If Bruno uses God to mean an origin, perhaps he should call it 0 (zero) or { } - the empty set? I think he wants to mean the underlying basis of everything, not just a beginning, but a sustaining basis - and he doesn't believe in set theory or doesn't believe

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-01 Thread LizR
On 2 March 2015 at 11:12, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 3/1/2015 1:39 PM, LizR wrote: If Bruno uses God to mean an origin, perhaps he should call it 0 (zero) or { } - the empty set? I think he wants to mean the underlying basis of everything, not just a beginning, but a

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-01 Thread Samiya Illias
On 01-Mar-2015, at 8:40 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 01 Mar 2015, at 13:01, Samiya Illias wrote: On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 3:21 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 28 Feb 2015, at 19:33, Samiya Illias wrote: On 28-Feb-2015, at 11:00 pm, Bruno

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-03-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Mar 2015, at 13:01, Samiya Illias wrote: On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 3:21 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 28 Feb 2015, at 19:33, Samiya Illias wrote: On 28-Feb-2015, at 11:00 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 27 Feb 2015, at 12:56, Samiya Illias wrote:

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-28 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 PGC multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote: as diehard atheist in every way, That's me. finding any possible transcendental concept of others laughable, I don't find all transcendental concepts laughable, some are based on logic and are reasonable or at least

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-28 Thread John Mikes
Samiya, I am always cautious not to hurt a fellow lister's feelings. Bruno is a bit mixed up with religion (uses 'theology', capital G in God, etc. etc.) so I do not question his 'faith' beyond what he disclosed already (I hope). I was always polite with your preconditions as well. Now that you

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-28 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Feb 2015, at 19:33, Samiya Illias wrote: On 28-Feb-2015, at 11:00 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 27 Feb 2015, at 12:56, Samiya Illias wrote: Why don't you just call it One with a capital O Because I use One for Plotinus first Hypostase. I use God, for the

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-28 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 27 Feb 2015, at 12:56, Samiya Illias wrote: Why don't you just call it One with a capital O Because I use One for Plotinus first Hypostase. I use God, for the general notion, used by most philosophers and comparative theologians. Bruno Samiya On 27-Feb-2015, at 4:23 pm, Bruno

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-28 Thread Samiya Illias
On 28-Feb-2015, at 11:00 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 27 Feb 2015, at 12:56, Samiya Illias wrote: Why don't you just call it One with a capital O Because I use One for Plotinus first Hypostase. I use God, for the general notion, used by most philosophers and

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-27 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 6:56 AM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: Why don't you just call it One with a capital O How about Bullshit with a capital B? And that's what passes for philosophy on this list, inventing new ASCII sequences to represent concepts that already have words

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-27 Thread PGC
On Friday, February 27, 2015 at 7:40:36 PM UTC+1, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 6:56 AM, Samiya Illias samiya...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Why don't you just call it One with a capital O How about Bullshit with a capital B? And that's what passes for philosophy on

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Feb 2015, at 21:52, meekerdb wrote: On 2/26/2015 3:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Fro the greek, the existence of God is a quasi-triviality, because God, by definition, is the reality that we search. Then the real question is what is the nature of God? A person? A physical thing? A

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-27 Thread Samiya Illias
Why don't you just call it One with a capital O Samiya On 27-Feb-2015, at 4:23 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 26 Feb 2015, at 21:52, meekerdb wrote: On 2/26/2015 3:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Fro the greek, the existence of God is a quasi-triviality, because God, by

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-26 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 12:33:59PM +1300, LizR wrote: On 27 February 2015 at 09:52, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: So I reiterate my objection that using God is not only obfuscating your avowed meaning it is also wrong to say it's what the Greeks meant by the basis of reality.

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-26 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
: John Mikes jami...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 25, 2015 4:02 pm Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? Spudy, a condition of what??? and WHAT (great!) program??? what would you call

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-26 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: There is another quote from Asimov that I quite like: Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived. Which confirms again how much the atheist needs the bible. As much as a tampon factory needs a

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-26 Thread meekerdb
On 2/26/2015 3:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Fro the greek, the existence of God is a quasi-triviality, because God, by definition, is the reality that we search. Then the real question is what is the nature of God? A person? A physical thing? A mathematical thing? A first principle, etc. The

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Feb 2015, at 22:08, LizR wrote: On 25 February 2015 at 15:00, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 , LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: skeptical atheism appears to be based on faith. I see, so belief in God is based on faith and so is doubts about the existence

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Feb 2015, at 23:55, meekerdb wrote: On 2/25/2015 1:08 PM, LizR wrote: On 25 February 2015 at 15:00, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 , LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: skeptical atheism appears to be based on faith. I see, so belief in God is based on faith

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Feb 2015, at 02:24, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: A genuine sceptic (and a genuine scientist) is agnostic about what the final science may turn out to be, if we ever get there. Who are these strawmen scientists who think our current theories

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-26 Thread meekerdb
On 2/26/2015 3:33 PM, LizR wrote: On 27 February 2015 at 09:52, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: So I reiterate my objection that using God is not only obfuscating your avowed meaning it is also wrong to say it's what the Greeks meant by the basis of

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-26 Thread LizR
On 27 February 2015 at 09:52, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: So I reiterate my objection that using God is not only obfuscating your avowed meaning it is also wrong to say it's what the Greeks meant by the basis of reality. I quite like Tao - but some (perhaps not on this list) would

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-25 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
Message- From: John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Feb 24, 2015 9:00 pm Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 , LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-25 Thread John Mikes
a pipeline(s). -Original Message- From: John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Feb 24, 2015 9:00 pm Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 , LizR lizj

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-25 Thread LizR
On 25 February 2015 at 15:00, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 , LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: skeptical atheism appears to be based on faith. I see, so belief in God is based on faith and so is doubts about the existence of God, but for a word to be

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-25 Thread meekerdb
On 2/25/2015 1:08 PM, LizR wrote: On 25 February 2015 at 15:00, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 , LizR lizj...@gmail.com mailto:lizj...@gmail.com wrote: skeptical atheism appears to be based on faith. I see, so belief

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-25 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: A genuine sceptic (and a genuine scientist) is agnostic about what the final science may turn out to be, if we ever get there. Who are these strawmen scientists who think our current theories are the final word on the nature of reality?

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-24 Thread meekerdb
Cue JKC. Brent On 2/24/2015 4:48 PM, LizR wrote: Or, to put it more epistemically, skeptical atheism appears to be based on faith. It is based on the faith that our present ideologies will be preserved by final science. Current physicalism may turn out to be as delusory as Abrahamic theology.

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-24 Thread LizR
Or, to put it more epistemically, skeptical atheism appears to be based on faith. It is based on the faith that our present ideologies will be preserved by final science. Current physicalism may turn out to be as delusory as Abrahamic theology. -- Eric Steinhart, Skeptical and Spiritual Atheisms

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-24 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 , LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: skeptical atheism appears to be based on faith. I see, so belief in God is based on faith and so is doubts about the existence of God, but for a word to be meaningful there must be contrast, so your need to point out something, anything,

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Feb 17, 2015 12:43 pm Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On 17 Feb 2015, at 13:55, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Very good. I do go computationalism myself

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
of knowledge) and can be compared with the observation (up to now it fits). Bruno -Original Message- From: Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 18, 2015 3:40 am Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-18 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
- From: Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 18, 2015 3:40 am Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On 17 Feb 2015, at 18:55, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: If one goes

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
, 2015 1:22 am Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: Your argument is based upon the collective thinking of some human thinkers and philosophers, while my

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
Mitch Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Feb 15, 2015 12:16 PM Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On Sun, Feb 15

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-17 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
computer. -Original Message- From: Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, Feb 17, 2015 12:43 pm Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On 17 Feb 2015, at 13:55, spudboy100 via

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 Feb 2015, at 19:29, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2015 1:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: OUR faith? stories for the believers to sooth their mind. Possible, but this does not entail that the faith has no object. Again, with computationalism, faith is meta-justified by the fact that all

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 Feb 2015, at 20:14, David Nyman wrote: On 16 February 2015 at 18:29, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: The faith step is assuming arithmetic. It's always been clear that Bruno's work is effectively an enquiry into whether something as apparently simple as first-order

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-17 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, Feb 16, 2015 6:18 am Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On 16 Feb 2015, at 02:55, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Interesting John

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-16 Thread David Nyman
On 16 February 2015 at 18:29, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: The faith step is assuming arithmetic. It's always been clear that Bruno's work is effectively an enquiry into whether something as apparently simple as first-order arithmetical relations are nonetheless a sufficient ontological

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-16 Thread meekerdb
On 2/16/2015 1:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: OUR faith? stories for the believers to sooth their mind. Possible, but this does not entail that the faith has no object. Again, with computationalism, faith is meta-justified by the fact that all (Löbian) machines cannot avoid the discovery that

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
Message- From: John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Feb 15, 2015 12:16 PM Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 12:52 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-15 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 12:52 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: John, see if you can read this paper. Its a slideshow from Ars Disputandi of an eric steinhart paper, on the theological implications of the simulation argument. This is the only copy I

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-15 Thread meekerdb
On 2/15/2015 3:01 PM, John Mikes wrote: Any 'practical' advice why I should change my position? Anything I should *KNOW* about? Agnostically yours John M The practical advice would be to ask yourself how you know where your computer keyboard is and how it works. Then you may try applying

Subset of N (was Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-15 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 15 Feb 2015, at 17:08, Samiya Illias wrote: You can invoke God to tell to the others what is right and wrong. You apply such belief to yourself if you feel it, but it can only concern a relation that you have with God, and God can have other relations with other people. Yes, of

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-15 Thread LizR
On 16 February 2015 at 12:01, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: Any 'practical' advice why I should change my position? Anything I should *KNOW* about? Being in the same position as you, all I can say is ... I don't know. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-15 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
: John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, Feb 15, 2015 12:16 PM Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? div id=AOLMsgPart_2_3e19ce3c-5d69-462e-ae18-078186a4f441 div dir=ltr div class

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-14 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, Feb 14, 2015 04:46 PM Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? div id=AOLMsgPart_2_6358d9ed-4934-4055-8f54-a38c31f4effc div dir=ltr div class=aolmail_gmail_extra On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 spudboy100 via

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-14 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On 15 Feb 2015, at 1:49 am, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: I hope you would you also agree with this statement: Science is simply Critical Inquiry, neither doubt not faith. A scientist would say that he would drop his favoured theory, or at least think it less likely to be

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-14 Thread Samiya Illias
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 11:22 AM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: Your argument is based upon the collective thinking of some human thinkers and philosophers, while my arguments are based upon a Book which,

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-14 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
Sent: Sat, Feb 14, 2015 1:22 am Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: Your argument is based upon the collective thinking of some human thinkers

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 13 Feb 2015, at 20:40, Samiya Illias wrote: On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 12 Feb 2015, at 12:47, Samiya Illias wrote: On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:08 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 10 Feb 2015, at 08:21, Samiya Illias

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-14 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: In Islam, I have read, is a being called The Doubter, which the faithful associate with the devil, they term, iblis. And in both the Old Testament and the Quran the devil is far more moral than God,

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-13 Thread Samiya Illias
On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 12 Feb 2015, at 12:47, Samiya Illias wrote: On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:08 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 10 Feb 2015, at 08:21, Samiya Illias wrote: Can you show that 1 + 8 = 9. Better, tell me

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-13 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On 14 Feb 2015, at 6:40 am, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: My faith encourages me to pursue the sciences, to use my faculties and intelligence for reason and logic, and the study of the sciences is not doubt. Doubt is the lack of faith! Science considers faith bad and

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-13 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: Your argument is based upon the collective thinking of some human thinkers and philosophers, while my arguments are based upon a Book which, if numbers matter, a large number of humans believe to be of a divine

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Feb 2015, at 12:47, Samiya Illias wrote: On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:08 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 10 Feb 2015, at 08:21, Samiya Illias wrote: Can you show that 1 + 8 = 9. Better, tell me how many times you will need to use the second axioms? Nine times.

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-12 Thread Samiya Illias
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:08 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 10 Feb 2015, at 08:21, Samiya Illias wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:50 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 08 Feb 2015, at 05:07, Samiya Illias wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Bruno

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-10 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Feb 2015, at 08:21, Samiya Illias wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:50 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 08 Feb 2015, at 05:07, Samiya Illias wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2015, at 17:14, Samiya Illias

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-10 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
-Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, Feb 7, 2015 11:07 pm Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Bruno

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, Feb 7, 2015 11:07 pm Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2015, at 17:14

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-09 Thread Samiya Illias
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:50 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 08 Feb 2015, at 05:07, Samiya Illias wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2015, at 17:14, Samiya Illias wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Bruno Marchal

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-09 Thread LizR
is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2015, at 17:14, Samiya Illias wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2015, at 06

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-09 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 9:16 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 08 Feb 2015, at 13:30, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Bruno, are you familiar with the atheistic (so-called) theologies of Dr. Eric Steinhart? He's a bright philosopher from William Patterson University, is the

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 Feb 2015, at 05:07, Samiya Illias wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2015, at 17:14, Samiya Illias wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2015, at 06:02, Samiya Illias

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-08 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
it. Ever heard of him? It sort of informs this topic I think. -Original Message- From: Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, Feb 7, 2015 11:07 pm Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-07 Thread Samiya Illias
On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2015, at 17:14, Samiya Illias wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2015, at 06:02, Samiya Illias wrote: On 04-Feb-2015, at 12:01 am, Bruno Marchal

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-05 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 04 Feb 2015, at 17:14, Samiya Illias wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2015, at 06:02, Samiya Illias wrote: On 04-Feb-2015, at 12:01 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Then reason shows that arithmetic is already

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-04 Thread Samiya Illias
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2015, at 06:02, Samiya Illias wrote: On 04-Feb-2015, at 12:01 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Then reason shows that arithmetic is already full of life, indeed full of an infinity of universal

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

2015-02-04 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 04 Feb 2015, at 06:02, Samiya Illias wrote: On 04-Feb-2015, at 12:01 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Then reason shows that arithmetic is already full of life, indeed full of an infinity of universal machines competing to provide your infinitely many relatively

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