Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-12 Thread benjayk
Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 benjayk

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-12 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/9/12 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-12 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/9/12 Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com 2012/9/12 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 benjayk

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-11 Thread benjayk
Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/10 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com No program can determine its hardware. This is a consequence of the Church Turing thesis. The particular machine at the lowest level has no bearing (from the program's perspective). If that is

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-11 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/10 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com No program can determine its hardware. This is a consequence of the Church Turing thesis. The particular machine at the lowest level has no

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-11 Thread benjayk
Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/10 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com No program can determine its hardware. This is a consequence of the Church Turing thesis. The particular machine

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-11 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/10 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com No program can determine its hardware. This is a consequence

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-11 Thread benjayk
Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/10 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com No program can determine its

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-11 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/10 benjayk

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-11 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/9/11 Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote: 2012/9/11 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com Quentin

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-10 Thread benjayk
No program can determine its hardware. This is a consequence of the Church Turing thesis. The particular machine at the lowest level has no bearing (from the program's perspective). If that is true, we can show that CT must be false, because we *can* define a meta-program that has

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-10 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/9/10 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com No program can determine its hardware. This is a consequence of the Church Turing thesis. The particular machine at the lowest level has no bearing (from the program's perspective). If that is true, we can show that CT must be

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-10 Thread Stephen P. King
On 9/10/2012 11:40 AM, benjayk wrote: No program can determine its hardware. This is a consequence of the Church Turing thesis. The particular machine at the lowest level has no bearing (from the program's perspective). If that is true, we can show that CT must be false, because we *can*

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-08 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 07 Sep 2012, at 12:24, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Aug 2012, at 21:57, benjayk wrote: It seems that the Church-Turing thesis, that states that an universal turing machine can compute everything that is intuitively computable, has near universal acceptance among

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-08 Thread benjayk
I just respond to some parts of your posts, because I'd rather discuss the main points than get sidetracked with issues that are less fundamental. Jason Resch-2 wrote: I admit that for numbers this is not so relevant because number relations can be quite clearly expressed using numerous

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-08 Thread benjayk
As far as I see, we mostly agree on content. I just can't make sense of reducing computation to emulability. For me the intuitive sene of computation is much more rich than this. But still, as I think about it, we can also create a model of computation (in the sense of being intuitively

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-08 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/9/8 benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com I just respond to some parts of your posts, because I'd rather discuss the main points than get sidetracked with issues that are less fundamental. Jason Resch-2 wrote: I admit that for numbers this is not so relevant because number

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Aug 2012, at 21:57, benjayk wrote: It seems that the Church-Turing thesis, that states that an universal turing machine can compute everything that is intuitively computable, has near universal acceptance among computer scientists. Yes indeed. I think there are two strong

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-07 Thread benjayk
Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Aug 2012, at 21:57, benjayk wrote: It seems that the Church-Turing thesis, that states that an universal turing machine can compute everything that is intuitively computable, has near universal acceptance among computer scientists. Yes indeed. I

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-07 Thread benjayk
Jason Resch-2 wrote: On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 12:47 PM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote: Jason Resch-2 wrote: On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 2:57 PM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote: It seems that the Church-Turing thesis, that states that an universal

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-07 Thread Stephen P. King
On 9/7/2012 6:24 AM, benjayk wrote: Why are two machines that can be used to emlate each other regarded to be equivalent? In my view, there is a big difference between computing the same and being able to emulate each other. Most importantly, emulation only makes sense relative to another

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-06 Thread benjayk
Jason Resch-2 wrote: On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 2:57 PM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote: It seems that the Church-Turing thesis, that states that an universal turing machine can compute everything that is intuitively computable, has near universal acceptance among computer

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-09-06 Thread Jason Resch
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 12:47 PM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote: Jason Resch-2 wrote: On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 2:57 PM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote: It seems that the Church-Turing thesis, that states that an universal turing machine can compute

Re: Why the Church-Turing thesis?

2012-08-28 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 2:57 PM, benjayk benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.comwrote: It seems that the Church-Turing thesis, that states that an universal turing machine can compute everything that is intuitively computable, has near universal acceptance among computer scientists. I really