On 10 Jan 2013, at 13:46, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
Could it be -- borrowing from Leibniz's Theodicy-- that in Heaven,
all of the forms are perfect,
Like perfect crime. You can say that with perfect means definitely
true or false.
as, say, prisms in a display cabinet,
but when you spill the cabinet and try to fit the perfect prisms
back together down here on the floor (in this contingent world),
there are gaps and misfits ?
OK. But I would say that with comp we are in heaven, but we forget it
and and then "matter" will give the room for gaps and misfits, but
also suffering and frustration, insatisfaction, etc.
In other words, from energy (Heaven) to entropy (Earth).
Hmm... Energy is basically Matter, or Information. For the
neoplatonist that's more like hell than heaven. By chance, it is also
a temporary illusion (for them).
But OK, the emanation of the intelligible, and the soul and matter
from the one, and the dual conversion can be related to what you say,
perhaps.
Bruno
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/10/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-09, 10:41:37
Subject: Re: Sensing the presence of God
On 09 Jan 2013, at 14:29, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Telmo Menezes
In the Christian tradition, Satan.
In the Platonic tradition (which Bruno knows
much better than I do), I think the Demiurge.
Platonists are not so good on the bad, and the bad is really a complex
problem. I suggest an answer in my post to Telmo.
To give you a "bad" example, Plotinus explains that the bad occurs
only to bad people. It warns that if you rape a woman, you will be
punished. How: by becoming a woman in your next life, and by being
raped.
This is unfortunate, as it might gives the idea that if a woman
attracts you up to the point you will rape her, it is OK, as it can
only mean that you are raping some "guy" who raped a woman in his/her
preceding life! But this will only justify and perpetuate the bad.
It is not entirely nonsensical, and may be Plotinus was to quick. It
can be related to the buddhist notion of karma, but here too, a danger
remains to make sick and miserable people, if that was not enough,
also feeling guilty. It leads to the idea that whatever bad happens to
you comes from bad thing you did in a preceding life, and this means
that it is always your fault. Basically, the idea of sin comes from
this too. But this can be used by people who want to manipulate you,
as history illustrates.
With the explanation suggested to Telmo, I would say the bad exists
due to its logical closeness to the good. Also good can be a
protagorean virtue, meaning that if you try to define the good in some
normative way, then the bad will be guarantied to happen.
Bruno
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/9/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Telmo Menezes
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-09, 07:26:45
Subject: Re: Sensing the presence of God
Where does hate, falsehood and ugliness come from?
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Roger Clough wrote:
According to Plato, all love, all truth, and all beauty comes from
the One
(ie God). That being the case, when I experience love, truth or
beauty, I
sense God's presence.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/9/2013
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
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