Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread meekerdb
On 9/19/2012 10:50 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:09 AM, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone may be almost contradictory, for they may realize the identity of

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Sep 2012, at 03:09, meekerdb wrote: On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone may be almost contradictory, for they may realize the identity of all minds, and therefore they would be torturing themselves. That would

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Sep 2012, at 08:01, meekerdb wrote: On 9/19/2012 10:50 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:09 AM, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone may be almost

Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread Roger Clough
. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-20, 05:28:08 Subject: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On 20 Sep 2012, at 03:09, meekerdb wrote: On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Also, the concept of a super

Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread Roger Clough
Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/20/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-20, 05:45:13 Subject: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On 20 Sep 2012, at 08:01

Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread Roger Clough
-list Time: 2012-09-20, 05:45:13 Subject: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On 20 Sep 2012, at 08:01, meekerdb wrote: On 9/19/2012 10:50 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:09 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Also, the concept

Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread Roger Clough
--- - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-19, 18:54:18 Subject: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On 9/19/2012 3:12 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 5:20:00 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 9/19/2012 2:11 PM, Craig

Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread Roger Clough
God's grace. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/20/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-20, 02:01:14 Subject: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On 9/19/2012

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread meekerdb
On 9/20/2012 2:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 20 Sep 2012, at 03:09, meekerdb wrote: On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone may be almost contradictory, for they may realize the identity of all minds, and therefore they

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
...@verizon.net javascript: 9/20/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-19, 17:11:45 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread meekerdb
On 9/20/2012 9:35 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:29:18 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg The devil could not write the Bible for it asks us to love God and our neighbor. That's like thinking that if a person does drugs with you they can't

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Sep 2012, at 18:17, meekerdb wrote: On 9/20/2012 2:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 20 Sep 2012, at 03:09, meekerdb wrote: On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone may be almost contradictory, for they may realize

Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread John Clark
Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Everything that God does by definition is just. So much for religion giving morality a rock solid foundation, all it means is that God wants it. We should do good and avoid evil for one and only one reason, a loving God will torture us for eternity if

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-20 Thread Stephen P. King
On 9/20/2012 12:17 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 9/20/2012 2:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 20 Sep 2012, at 03:09, meekerdb wrote: On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone may be almost contradictory, for they may realize the

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread Roger Clough
- Receiving the following content - From: John Clark Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-18, 12:55:58 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:26 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven, only

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 18 Sep 2012, at 18:55, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:26 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven, only believing in Christ's sacrifice for us will do that. And you know that because you were told it over and over

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Sep 19, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: OK, genius. So, following impeccable logic, you believe you are John Clark because from infancy people kept ramming down your thoat that you are John Clark. Yes. People told me that my name was John Clark and like all young children I

Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread Roger Clough
, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-19, 09:19:54 Subject: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On 18 Sep 2012, at 18:55, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:26 AM, Roger Clough rclo

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 5:27:13 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven, only believing in Christ's sacrifice for us will do that. http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en What kind of a sacrifice is

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread meekerdb
On 9/19/2012 2:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 5:27:13 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven, only believing in Christ's sacrifice for us will do that.

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 5:20:00 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 9/19/2012 2:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 5:27:13 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven, only believing in Christ's

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread meekerdb
On 9/19/2012 3:12 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 5:20:00 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 9/19/2012 2:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 5:27:13 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist Obeying the commandments will

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 6:54:25 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 9/19/2012 3:12 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 5:20:00 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 9/19/2012 2:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 5:27:13 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread meekerdb
On 9/19/2012 4:34 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 6:54:25 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 9/19/2012 3:12 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 5:20:00 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 9/19/2012 2:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread Jason Resch
On Sep 19, 2012, at 4:19 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 9/19/2012 2:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, September 18, 2012 5:27:13 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven, only believing in Christ's sacrifice for

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread meekerdb
On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone may be almost contradictory, for they may realize the identity of all minds, and therefore they would be torturing themselves. That would be an inconsistency of values, but not a logical

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:48:33 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 9/19/2012 4:34 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 6:54:25 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 9/19/2012 3:12 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 5:20:00 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote:

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 8:09 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone may be almost contradictory, for they may realize the identity of all minds, and therefore they would be torturing

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-19 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:09 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone may be almost contradictory, for they may realize the identity of all minds, and therefore they would be torturing

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-18 Thread Roger Clough
- From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-17, 13:53:40 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy. Jesus said that he likes people to be hot or cold, atheists and theists that keep all the commandments, even ones he added like praying in a closet. The other

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-18 Thread Roger Clough
can think of. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/18/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. Woody Allan - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-17, 11:02:01 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy

Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-18 Thread Roger Clough
content - From: meekerdb Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-17, 15:19:38 Subject: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On 9/17/2012 10:40 AM, John Clark wrote: Most adults don't believe in Santa Claus even though they once did because they were told by their parents when they were

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-18 Thread Roger Clough
content - From: John Clark Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-17, 13:40:03 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:34 AM, Roger Clough wrote: God loved the believers and hated the nonbelievers, at least that's what the Bible tells us

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-18 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:26 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Obeying the commandments will not get you into heaven, only believing in Christ's sacrifice for us will do that. And you know that because you were told it over and over again from the very moment you learned language,

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-18 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: there is no indisputable reason to believe in God. Yes. Faith or trust is required In other words stupidity is required. and that's exactly what God wants God wants? GOD WANTS??!! The guy's omnipotent, God doesn't want, God

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-17 Thread Roger Clough
the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-15, 12:03:08 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy. Nonesense On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist He was talking about the 10 commandments. He

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-17 Thread Richard Ruquist
, 12:03:08 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy. Nonesense On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist He was talking about the 10 commandments. He fulfilled them with his death and res. Jesus did away for example with the dietary

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-17 Thread Roger Clough
. - Receiving the following content - From: John Clark Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-16, 13:41:07 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 , Roger Clough wrote: God loved the Israelites and hated their enemies. Well that hardly seems fair, and God

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-17 Thread Roger Clough
-list Time: 2012-09-15, 12:03:08 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy. Nonesense On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Richard Ruquist He was talking about the 10 commandments. He fulfilled them with his death and res. Jesus did away for example

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-17 Thread Richard Ruquist
. You only need to accept that fact for it to be saved. o invent him so that everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-17, 07:01:49 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy. I

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-17 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:34 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: God loved the believers and hated the nonbelievers, at least that's what the Bible tells us. Yes that's what the Bible says, it says that a omnipotent omniscient being is pretending that He does not exist and He hates

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-17 Thread Richard Ruquist
Jesus said that he likes people to be hot or cold, atheists and theists that keep all the commandments, even ones he added like praying in a closet. The other people are the least in heaven, which BTW implies that we all make to heaven. He especially dislikes those who change or reinterprete his

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-17 Thread meekerdb
On 9/17/2012 10:40 AM, John Clark wrote: Most adults don't believe in Santa Claus even though they once did because they were told by their parents when they were still quite young that he didn't exist, if they waited until they were 17 to be informed it would be too late and they wouldn't have

Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-16 Thread Roger Clough
: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 7:22 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Intelligence ? I don't think the word was available back then (Bible days). Well, they certainly behaved as the didn't know what it meant to be intelligent, but then why is the bible worth reading today

Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-16 Thread Roger Clough
Hi John Clark On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 7:22 AM, Roger Clough wrote: ROGER: Intelligence ? I don't think the word was available back then (Bible days). JOHN: Welll, they certainly behaved as the didn't know what it meant to be intelligent, but then why is the bible worth reading

Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-16 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 , Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: God loved the Israelites and hated their enemies. Well that hardly seems fair, and God hated a hell of a lot more of His creations than he loved. God did heap down fire and brimstone on the enemies of his people. I understand

Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-15 Thread Roger Clough
, 15:32:46 Subject: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Roger Clough wrote: You're a slow learner. Maybe, but I'm smarter than the people in the Bible. As Bertrand Russell said So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise

Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-15 Thread Richard Ruquist
the following content - From: John Clark Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-14, 15:32:46 Subject: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Roger Clough wrote: You're a slow learner. Maybe, but I'm smarter than the people in the Bible. As Bertrand Russell

Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-15 Thread Roger Clough
...@verizon.net 9/15/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-15, 08:08:22 Subject: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy. Jesus did

Re: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-15 Thread Richard Ruquist
-list Time: 2012-09-15, 08:08:22 Subject: Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy. Jesus did not do away with any OT laws. He said so explicitly in the Sermon on the Mount. Matthew 5: [17] Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them

Re: Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-15 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 7:22 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Intelligence ? I don't think the word was available back then (Bible days). Well, they certainly behaved as the didn't know what it meant to be intelligent, but then why is the bible worth reading today? Why not read

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-14 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Every belief system has a core and a set of pseudo logic, which is a mix of pseudo arguments ad authoritas that justify their beliefs. Positivsts have Phisics as its core, defence shield. From this, almost everything else is derived. Because the law of angular momentum is true and is science,

Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-14 Thread Roger Clough
: 2012-09-13, 13:03:16 Subject: Re: the nothing but fallacy. On Wed, Sep 12, 2012? Roger Clough wrote: If religion is true I would be surprised if it DIDN'T appear in myths. And if religion is false I would be more than surprised I would be absolutely astonished if it DIDN'T appear in myths

Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-14 Thread Roger Clough
the following content - From: Alberto G. Corona Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-14, 03:18:47 Subject: Re: the nothing but fallacy. Every belief system has a core and a set of pseudo logic, which is a mix of pseudo arguments ad authoritas that justify their beliefs. Positivsts have

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-14 Thread meekerdb
On 9/14/2012 12:18 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: Every belief system has a core and a set of pseudo logic, which is a mix of pseudo arguments ad authoritas that justify their beliefs. Positivsts have Phisics as its core, defence shield. From this, almost everything else is derived. Because the

Re: Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-14 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: You're a slow learner. Maybe, but I'm smarter than the people in the Bible. As Bertrand Russell said So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence. Bible stories are generally

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-13 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com wrote: I just gave a positivistic argument to convince people that adhere to the positivistic faith. That does not mean that I´m materialist nor positivist. Positivism, whatever else it is, is not faith. Faith is when you

Re: The nothing but fallacy in explaining away God (or anything)

2012-09-13 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: I call this the nothing but fallacy There is indeed a nothing but fallacy, such as: a computer can't be conscious because when you look at it at a close enough level you find nothing but a bunch of zeros and ones. It is the

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-13 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Even to believe that what we see exist in a objective, external reality is an act of faith. To believe, and to believe only in the authority of what is called science at a certain time in history is another act of faith in the authority of someone that administer some truth ( concrete scientist

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 13 Sep 2012, at 15:36, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com wrote: I just gave a positivistic argument to convince people that adhere to the positivistic faith. That does not mean that I´m materialist nor positivist.

Re: The nothing but fallacy in explaining away God (or anything)

2012-09-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, September 13, 2012 11:36:37 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 Roger Clough rcl...@verizon.net javascript:wrote: I call this the nothing but fallacy There is indeed a nothing but fallacy, such as: a computer can't be conscious because when you look at it

Re: The nothing but fallacy in explaining away God (or anything)

2012-09-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 12 Sep 2012, at 11:57, Roger Clough wrote: Freud thought that he had explained away God with his book Moses and Monotheism. What he says in there is probably true, but just because you can give a reason for something doesn't mean that that's all there is to it. If something is true,

Re: Re: The nothing but fallacy in explaining away God (or anything)

2012-09-12 Thread Roger Clough
, rclo...@verizon.net 9/12/2012 Leibniz would say, If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function. - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-12, 06:26:07 Subject: Re: The nothing but fallacy

Re: the nothing but fallacy.

2012-09-12 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Roger, Not at all. In the previous response to your comment I said that there are miths, that myths and beliefs are very important, but not that religion is nothing but that. I just gave a positivistic argument to convince people that adhere to the positivistic faith. That does not mean that I´m