Re: Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence
Hi Stephen P. King IMHO morals imply that you have somebody looking over your shoulder. So they are collective. - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-30, 13:44:45 Subject: Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence On 1/30/2013 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:09:49 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: What is the least powerful means of controlling gun violence ? By legal means, as if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Just like if you outlaw biological weapons, then only outlaws will have biological weapons. That's pretty much the idea of making things illegal. What is the most powerful means ? By restablishing moral values in our homes, in our schools and in the media. Moral values cannot be re-established by decree, only imitated voluntarily by example. Morals flow from the individual mind. The collective has no morals. -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence
On Thursday, January 31, 2013 8:05:00 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King IMHO morals imply that you have somebody looking over your shoulder. So they are collective. Interesting. In a sense I agree, but I also agree with Stephen that morals flow from the individual mind. The morals of the collective are internalized by the individual, but it is up to them, to some degree (depending on the context) whether they choose to champion or reject any particular moral impulse or 'ought'. You might, for instance, be born into a family with parents who are traditional in some ways, eccentric in others, with one radical sibling and one more conservative sibling...maybe you were in a progressive program within a restrictive school, within a suburban culture, within a progressive state... etc. As you navigate through it, your morality is shaped by your experiences, and those of your family and friends. In my case, the only person looking over my shoulder is me - morality is what is demanded of me by the absence of anyone looking over my shoulder. Craig - Receiving the following content - *From:* Stephen P. King javascript: *Receiver:* everything-list javascript: *Time:* 2013-01-30, 13:44:45 *Subject:* Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence On 1/30/2013 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:09:49 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: What is the least powerful means of controlling gun violence ? By legal means, as if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Just like if you outlaw biological weapons, then only outlaws will have biological weapons. That's pretty much the idea of making things illegal. What is the most powerful means ? By restablishing moral values in our homes, in our schools and in the media. Moral values cannot be re-established by decree, only imitated voluntarily by example. Morals flow from the individual mind. The collective has no morals. -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence
Hi Roger, We can add together our claims to get a better claim as I see a way to bring our ideas together. How about: morals are the rules of the individual generated by interactions with others. I still refuse to accept any coherence to the idea that there is a collective with a mind at the same level as the individual. Look at the often quoted example of a BEC. In such, the aggregate becomes one entity, a new individual and the previous individual (from the point of view of behaviors) vanishes. On 1/31/2013 8:05 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King IMHO morals imply that you have somebody looking over your shoulder. So they are collective. - Receiving the following content - *From:* Stephen P. King mailto:stephe...@charter.net *Receiver:* everything-list mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com *Time:* 2013-01-30, 13:44:45 *Subject:* Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence On 1/30/2013 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:09:49 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: What is the least powerful means of controlling gun violence ? By legal means, as if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Just like if you outlaw biological weapons, then only outlaws will have biological weapons. That's pretty much the idea of making things illegal. What is the most powerful means ? By restablishing moral values in our homes, in our schools and in the media. Moral values cannot be re-established by decree, only imitated voluntarily by example. Morals flow from the individual mind. The collective has no morals. -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence
On 1/31/2013 12:53 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, January 31, 2013 8:05:00 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King IMHO morals imply that you have somebody looking over your shoulder. So they are collective. Interesting. In a sense I agree, but I also agree with Stephen that morals flow from the individual mind. The morals of the collective are internalized by the individual, but it is up to them, to some degree (depending on the context) whether they choose to champion or reject any particular moral impulse or 'ought'. You might, for instance, be born into a family with parents who are traditional in some ways, eccentric in others, with one radical sibling and one more conservative sibling...maybe you were in a progressive program within a restrictive school, within a suburban culture, within a progressive state... etc. As you navigate through it, your morality is shaped by your experiences, and those of your family and friends. In my case, the only person looking over my shoulder is me - morality is what is demanded of me by the absence of anyone looking over my shoulder. Craig Hear Hear! The environment that molds one individual cannot be assumed to be identical to the environment that molds another. Beware of assumptions of uniformity and homogeneity... Sometimes Nature is not as symmetric as we would like... -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
The least and best means of controlling gun violence
What is the least powerful means of controlling gun violence ? By legal means, as if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. What is the most powerful means ? By restablishing moral values in our homes, in our schools and in the media. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence
On Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:09:49 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: What is the least powerful means of controlling gun violence ? By legal means, as if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Just like if you outlaw biological weapons, then only outlaws will have biological weapons. That's pretty much the idea of making things illegal. What is the most powerful means ? By restablishing moral values in our homes, in our schools and in the media. Moral values cannot be re-established by decree, only imitated voluntarily by example. Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence
On 1/30/2013 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:09:49 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: What is the least powerful means of controlling gun violence ? By legal means, as if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Just like if you outlaw biological weapons, then only outlaws will have biological weapons. That's pretty much the idea of making things illegal. What is the most powerful means ? By restablishing moral values in our homes, in our schools and in the media. Moral values cannot be re-established by decree, only imitated voluntarily by example. Morals flow from the individual mind. The collective has no morals. -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence
On Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:44:45 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 1/30/2013 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:09:49 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: What is the least powerful means of controlling gun violence ? By legal means, as if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Just like if you outlaw biological weapons, then only outlaws will have biological weapons. That's pretty much the idea of making things illegal. What is the most powerful means ? By restablishing moral values in our homes, in our schools and in the media. Moral values cannot be re-established by decree, only imitated voluntarily by example. Morals flow from the individual mind. The collective has no morals. Agreed, but I would add that the although the collective has no morals itself, it is only through social interaction which morals are meaningfully defined. Without a social context, morals are only solipsistic oscillations of temperament. Craig -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: The least and best means of controlling gun violence
On 1/30/2013 2:15 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:44:45 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 1/30/2013 12:41 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:09:49 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: What is the least powerful means of controlling gun violence ? By legal means, as if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Just like if you outlaw biological weapons, then only outlaws will have biological weapons. That's pretty much the idea of making things illegal. What is the most powerful means ? By restablishing moral values in our homes, in our schools and in the media. Moral values cannot be re-established by decree, only imitated voluntarily by example. Morals flow from the individual mind. The collective has no morals. Agreed, but I would add that the although the collective has no morals itself, it is only through social interaction which morals are meaningfully defined. Without a social context, morals are only solipsistic oscillations of temperament. I agree, thus solipsism must be attenuated. Craig -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
