Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 12 May 2019, at 20:38, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, May 12, 2019 at 12:31:12 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Concerning mathematical logic and theology, an incredible book is: > > Cohen J. Daniel, 2007. Equations from God, Pure Mathematics and Victorian > Faith, John

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Sunday, May 12, 2019 at 12:31:12 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > Concerning mathematical logic and theology, an incredible book is: > > Cohen J. Daniel, 2007. Equations from God, Pure Mathematics and Victorian > Faith, John Hopkins Press, Baltimore. > > That book shows that the whole

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 10 May 2019, at 15:38, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 7:53 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 8 May 2019, at 17:44, Jason Resch > > wrote: >> >> SNIP >> >> OK. >> >> It is just that this is verified by

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 7:53 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 8 May 2019, at 17:44, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:57 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:50, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:57 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 8 May 2019, at 17:44, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:57 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:50, Jason Resch > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:57 AM Bruno Marchal >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:57 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:50, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:57 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 23 Apr 2019, at 03:32, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:51 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:38, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:45 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 23 Apr 2019, at 01:24, Jason Resch > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:50, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:57 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 23 Apr 2019, at 03:32, Jason Resch > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:51 PM 'Brent Meeker' via

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Friday, April 26, 2019 at 9:04:46 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > > On Friday, April 26, 2019, > wrote: > >> >> >> On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 7:29:08 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 2:48 AM Philip Thrift >>> wrote: >>> On Monday, April 22, 2019

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Friday, April 26, 2019, wrote: > > > On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 7:29:08 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 2:48 AM Philip Thrift wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 6:24:37 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > The above reminded me of this quote

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 7:29:08 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 2:48 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > >> >> >> On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 6:24:37 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>> >>> The above reminded me of this quote from Alan Turing: >>> >>> Personally I think that

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:57 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 23 Apr 2019, at 03:32, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:51 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On 4/22/2019 4:24 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:45 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 23 Apr 2019, at 01:24, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 5 Nov 2018, at 02:56, Martin Abramson >> wrote: >> >> Consciousness is a program. >> >> >> Consciousness might be

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 2:48 AM Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 6:24:37 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >> >> >>> The above reminded me of this quote from Alan Turing: >> >> Personally I think that spirit is really eternally connected with matter >> but certainly not always by the

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 23 Apr 2019, at 07:13, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 4/22/2019 6:32 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:51 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >> mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> >> wrote: >> >> >> On 4/22/2019 4:24 PM,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 23 Apr 2019, at 03:32, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:51 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: > > > On 4/22/2019 4:24 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 23 Apr 2019, at 01:24, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 5 Nov 2018, at 02:56, Martin Abramson > > wrote: >> >> Consciousness is a program. > > Consciousness might be

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 6:24:37 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > >> The above reminded me of this quote from Alan Turing: > > Personally I think that spirit is really eternally connected with matter > but certainly not always by the same kind of body. I did believe it > possible for a spirit at

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 12:13 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 4/22/2019 6:32 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:51 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 4/22/2019 6:32 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:51 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 4/22/2019 4:24 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:51 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 4/22/2019 4:24 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 5 Nov 2018, at 02:56, Martin Abramson >> wrote: >> >> Consciousness

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 4/22/2019 4:24 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: On 5 Nov 2018, at 02:56, Martin Abramson mailto:martinabrams...@gmail.com>> wrote: Consciousness is a program. Consciousness might be related to a

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 5 Nov 2018, at 02:56, Martin Abramson > wrote: > > Consciousness is a program. > > > Consciousness might be related to a program, but is not a program, that > would identify a first person notion with a third person notion, like a >

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 4 Jan 2019, at 17:25, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, January 4, 2019 at 10:02:51 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 3 Jan 2019, at 15:41, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 7:46:58 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 2 Jan 2019,

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Friday, January 4, 2019 at 10:02:51 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 3 Jan 2019, at 15:41, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 7:46:58 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 2 Jan 2019, at 21:09, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, January

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 3 Jan 2019, at 15:41, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 7:46:58 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 2 Jan 2019, at 21:09, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:07:37 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> On

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 7:46:58 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 2 Jan 2019, at 21:09, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:07:37 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 12:30:22 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >>>

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 2 Jan 2019, at 21:09, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:07:37 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 12:30:22 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 8:44:36 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 6:12:11 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/2/2019 12:09 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > When one thinks of "1+1=2", "|+|=||", etc. one thinks of, say, > > "There's a stick and another stick side by side. What do you call that?" > > Unary arithmetic. > > Brent

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 5:57:59 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/2/2019 10:30 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > I have no reason to believe that all of mathematics (numbers, ..., > > (mathematical) Turing machines, ...) is nothing more than language - > > which is something generated

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 1/2/2019 12:09 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: When one thinks of "1+1=2", "|+|=||", etc. one thinks of, say, "There's a stick and another stick side by side. What do you call that?" Unary arithmetic. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 1/2/2019 10:30 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: I have no reason to believe that all of mathematics (numbers, ..., (mathematical) Turing machines, ...) is nothing more than language - which is something generated by material beings. But do you have some reason to believe that it is more than a

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:07:37 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 12:30:22 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 8:44:36 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 30 Dec 2018, at 19:02, Philip Thrift wrote:

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 12:30:22 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 8:44:36 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 30 Dec 2018, at 19:02, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 7:35:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 8:44:36 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 30 Dec 2018, at 19:02, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 7:35:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 30 Dec 2018, at 08:33, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> There is no "even" or

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 31 Dec 2018, at 02:37, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 09:02:26AM -0800, Brent Meeker wrote: >> >> >> On 12/29/2018 1:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> I use number because people are more familiar with them. Most people can >>> easily conceived that “17 is odd” is

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 30 Dec 2018, at 19:02, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 7:35:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 30 Dec 2018, at 08:33, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> There is no "even" or "odd" prior to the existence of matter. > > With some act of faith in some

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 09:02:26AM -0800, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/29/2018 1:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > I use number because people are more familiar with them. Most people can > > easily conceived that “17 is odd” is true independently of them, but > > would have an harder time to

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 7:35:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 30 Dec 2018, at 08:33, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > There is no "even" or "odd" prior to the existence of* matter.* > > > With some act of faith in some notion of matter. No problem with this, > unless this is used

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 30 Dec 2018, at 08:33, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 5:32:52 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > On 12/29/2018 2:44 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 3:39:25 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 12/29/2018 12:50 PM, Philip

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 29 Dec 2018, at 18:02, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/29/2018 1:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> I use number because people are more familiar with them. Most people can >> easily conceived that “17 is odd” is true independently of them, but would >> have an harder time to conceive

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 29 Dec 2018, at 11:55, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 3:58:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 27 Dec 2018, at 21:57, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> What if conventional mathematics itself is in error by assuming its primary >> elements are

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 5:32:52 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/29/2018 2:44 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 3:39:25 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 12/29/2018 12:50 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 12/29/2018 2:44 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 3:39:25 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 12/29/2018 12:50 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 11:02:30 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 12/29/2018 1:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 3:39:25 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/29/2018 12:50 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 11:02:30 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 12/29/2018 1:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> > I use number because people are more

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 12/29/2018 12:50 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 11:02:30 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 12/29/2018 1:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > I use number because people are more familiar with them. Most people > can easily conceived that “17 is odd” is true

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 11:02:30 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/29/2018 1:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > I use number because people are more familiar with them. Most people > > can easily conceived that “17 is odd” is true independently of them, > > but would have an harder

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 12/29/2018 1:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I use number because people are more familiar with them. Most people can easily conceived that “17 is odd” is true independently of them, but would have an harder time to conceive that KKK=K independent of them, even if this does not mean much

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 3:58:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 27 Dec 2018, at 21:57, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > What if conventional mathematics itself is in error by assuming its > primary elements are numbers? > > > Conventional mathematics is informal. It does not

Re: [SUSPICIOUS MESSAGE] Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 27 Dec 2018, at 21:57, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 6:55:34 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 24 Dec 2018, at 14:55, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 6:55:46 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 23 Dec

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 6:55:34 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 24 Dec 2018, at 14:55, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 6:55:46 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 23 Dec 2018, at 13:39, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 24 Dec 2018, at 14:55, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 6:55:46 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 23 Dec 2018, at 13:39, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 5:20:57 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 21 Dec

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 6:55:46 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 23 Dec 2018, at 13:39, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 5:20:57 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 21 Dec 2018, at 11:06, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 23 Dec 2018, at 13:39, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 5:20:57 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 21 Dec 2018, at 11:06, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 3:18:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 20 Dec

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 5:20:57 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 21 Dec 2018, at 11:06, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 3:18:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 20 Dec 2018, at 14:49, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> The psychical

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 21 Dec 2018, at 11:06, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 3:18:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 20 Dec 2018, at 14:49, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> The psychical (experiential) states of matter (brain) > > Why a brain? If matter can be conscious,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 3:18:26 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 20 Dec 2018, at 14:49, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > The psychical (experiential) states of matter (brain) > > > Why a brain? If matter can be conscious, what is the role of the > (non-digital) brain? > > > > > >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 20 Dec 2018, at 14:49, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 5:41:07 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 19 Dec 2018, at 19:36, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 9:19:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 18

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 5:41:07 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 19 Dec 2018, at 19:36, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 9:19:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 18 Dec 2018, at 16:40, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> snip >> >> > >>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 19 Dec 2018, at 19:36, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 9:19:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 18 Dec 2018, at 16:40, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> snip >> >> >> I should add: Why is fictionalism compelling? >> >> When you get down to

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 9:19:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 Dec 2018, at 16:40, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 9:24:12 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 5:04:32 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 18 Dec 2018, at 16:40, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 9:24:12 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 5:04:32 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 17 Dec 2018, at 14:32, Philip Thrift > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 9:24:12 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 5:04:32 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 17 Dec 2018, at 14:32, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 6:51:19 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 5:04:32 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 17 Dec 2018, at 14:32, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 6:51:19 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 16 Dec 2018, at 19:24, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 17 Dec 2018, at 14:32, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 6:51:19 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 16 Dec 2018, at 19:24, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 11:27:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> > On 15 Dec

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 6:51:19 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 16 Dec 2018, at 19:24, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 11:27:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> > On 15 Dec 2018, at 00:00, Brent Meeker wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > On

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 16 Dec 2018, at 19:24, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 11:27:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 15 Dec 2018, at 00:00, Brent Meeker > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 12/14/2018 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >>> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 15 Dec 2018, at 00:12, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 5:00:33 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > On 12/14/2018 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent Meeker > > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> On 12/13/2018 3:25 AM, Bruno Marchal

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Sunday, December 16, 2018 at 11:27:50 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > On 15 Dec 2018, at 00:00, Brent Meeker > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 12/14/2018 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >>> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 12/13/2018 3:25

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 15 Dec 2018, at 00:00, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/14/2018 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent Meeker wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/13/2018 3:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > But that is the same as saying proof=>truth. I don’t think so. It

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 14 Dec 2018, at 12:01, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 4:49:33 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:05, Brent Meeker > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 12/13/2018 3:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Automating Gödel'’s Ontological Proof of

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 5:00:33 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/14/2018 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> On 12/13/2018 3:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > But that is the same as saying proof=>truth. >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 12/14/2018 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent Meeker wrote: On 12/13/2018 3:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But that is the same as saying proof=>truth. I don’t think so. It says that []p -> p is not provable, unless p is proved. So []([]p -> p) -> p or in

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 4:49:33 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:05, Brent Meeker > > wrote: > > > > On 12/13/2018 3:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > *Automating Gödel'’s Ontological Proof of God’s Existence ¨ with > Higher-order Automated Theorem Provers* >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:24, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/13/2018 3:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> But that is the same as saying proof=>truth. >> >> I don’t think so. It says that []p -> p is not provable, unless p is proved. > > So []([]p -> p) -> p or in other words Proof([]p ->

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:05, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/13/2018 3:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> Automating Gödel'’s Ontological Proof of God’s Existence ¨ with >>> Higher-order Automated Theorem Provers >>> http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/cbenzmueller/papers/C40.pdf >>>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 12/13/2018 3:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But that is the same as saying proof=>truth. I don’t think so. It says that []p -> p is not provable, unless p is proved. So  []([]p -> p) -> p  or in other words Proof([]p -> p) => (p is true)  So in this case proof entails truth?? For

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 12/13/2018 3:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: *Automating Gödel'’s Ontological Proof of God’s Existence ¨ with Higher-order Automated Theorem Provers* http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/cbenzmueller/papers/C40.pdf Gödel took the modal logic S5 for its proof, which is the only logic NOT available

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 9:30:10 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > the mathematical idea of "true" is very different from the common one. > > Brent > > > This reminds me of the "truth" the guys on *The Big Bang Theory* refer to a lot: They have arguments of what would be the case (be

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 13 Dec 2018, at 04:30, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/12/2018 9:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 12 Dec 2018, at 12:54, Philip Thrift >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 12 Dec 2018, at 19:37, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 11:18:48 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 12 Dec 2018, at 12:54, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 11

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 12/12/2018 9:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 12 Dec 2018, at 12:54, Philip Thrift > wrote: On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:58, Philip Thrift > wrote: On Tuesday, December 11,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 11:18:48 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 12 Dec 2018, at 12:54, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:58, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 12 Dec 2018, at 12:54, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:58, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 5:41:49 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 11

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:58, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 5:41:49 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:11, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> Nothing is

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:58, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 5:41:49 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:11, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> Nothing is "confirmed" and "made precise". >> >> (Derrida, Rorty, …) > > That would make

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 12/11/2018 3:58 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 5:41:49 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:11, Philip Thrift > wrote: Nothing is "confirmed" and "made precise". (Derrida, Rorty, …) That would make Derrida and Rorty into

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 5:41:49 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:11, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > Nothing is "confirmed" and "made precise". > > (Derrida, Rorty, …) > > > That would make Derrida and Rorty into obscurantism. Confirmation does not > make an

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 11 Dec 2018, at 12:11, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 4:21:07 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 9 Dec 2018, at 21:45, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 6:03:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 7 Dec

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 4:21:07 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 9 Dec 2018, at 21:45, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 6:03:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 7 Dec 2018, at 21:17, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 9 Dec 2018, at 21:45, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 6:03:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 7 Dec 2018, at 21:17, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 9:39:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 7 Dec 2018,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 6:03:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 7 Dec 2018, at 21:17, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 9:39:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 7 Dec 2018, at 12:38, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December 7,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 7 Dec 2018, at 21:17, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 9:39:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 7 Dec 2018, at 12:38, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 4:14:20 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 6 Dec 2018,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 9:39:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 7 Dec 2018, at 12:38, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 4:14:20 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 6 Dec 2018, at 12:33, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, December

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 7 Dec 2018, at 12:38, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 4:14:20 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 6 Dec 2018, at 12:33, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 5:05:55 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 5 Dec 2018,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Friday, December 7, 2018 at 4:14:20 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 6 Dec 2018, at 12:33, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 5:05:55 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 5 Dec 2018, at 19:20, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 6 Dec 2018, at 12:33, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 5:05:55 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 5 Dec 2018, at 19:20, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 5:29:44 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 4 Dec

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 5:05:55 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 5 Dec 2018, at 19:20, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 5:29:44 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 4 Dec 2018, at 17:48, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On the truth of

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 5 Dec 2018, at 19:20, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 5:29:44 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 4 Dec 2018, at 17:48, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On the truth of computationalism, I mean to express emphatically that >>> computationalism

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Wednesday, December 5, 2018 at 5:29:44 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 4 Dec 2018, at 17:48, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > >> >> >> On the truth of computationalism, I mean to express emphatically that >> *computationalism >> is indeed false*, and it should be replaced by what I call

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