Re: [Evolution-hackers] Return back folder remember for Open/Save dialog

2012-07-26 Thread Milan Crha
On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 07:34 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-07-23 at 11:04 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote:
  On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 09:19 -0400, Matthew Barnes wrote:
   On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 14:47 +0200, Milan Crha wrot
   Consistency with other GTK+ applications is more important.
   If GtkFileChooser has chosen a bad policy, try and open a discussion
   with Federico about it.  Don't just circumvent the policy.  I would
   consider that a regression
  I strongly disagree that consistency with other Gtk+ applications is
  more important than basic usability. The GtkFileChooser is just
  stunningly broken — and by accepting its stupidity wholesale, that means
  that Evolution has regressed in usability.
 
 +1 +1 +1
 
 On my boxes FileChooser typically defaults to the Recently Used
 selection even for a Save-As operation you can't save a file to
 Recently Used.  The behavior of recent FileChooser is just nuts; at
 least default to Home, or Documents, or some reasonable XDG-ish path.

Hi all,
I asked for a string freeze break on gnome-3-4 branch in Evolution [1].
I'll revert the removal, when/if they'll approve.
Bye,
Milan

[1] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2012-July/msg00056.html

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Re: [Evolution-hackers] Return back folder remember for Open/Save dialog

2012-07-26 Thread Matthew Barnes
On Thu, 2012-07-26 at 14:08 +0200, Milan Crha wrote:
 I asked for a string freeze break on gnome-3-4 branch in Evolution [1].
 I'll revert the removal, when/if they'll approve.

I meant it when I said I would consider that a regression.

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Re: [Evolution-hackers] Return back folder remember for Open/Save dialog

2012-07-24 Thread Adam Tauno Williams
On Mon, 2012-07-23 at 11:04 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 09:19 -0400, Matthew Barnes wrote:
  On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 14:47 +0200, Milan Crha wrot
  Consistency with other GTK+ applications is more important.
  If GtkFileChooser has chosen a bad policy, try and open a discussion
  with Federico about it.  Don't just circumvent the policy.  I would
  consider that a regression
 I strongly disagree that consistency with other Gtk+ applications is
 more important than basic usability. The GtkFileChooser is just
 stunningly broken — and by accepting its stupidity wholesale, that means
 that Evolution has regressed in usability.

+1 +1 +1

On my boxes FileChooser typically defaults to the Recently Used
selection even for a Save-As operation you can't save a file to
Recently Used.  The behavior of recent FileChooser is just nuts; at
least default to Home, or Documents, or some reasonable XDG-ish path.

 I agree with Milan that we should switch back to how we were doing
 things before.



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Re: [Evolution-hackers] Return back folder remember for Open/Save dialog

2012-07-24 Thread David Woodhouse
On Mon, 2012-07-23 at 19:22 +0100, Philip Withnall wrote:
 That effort would better be put into improving GTK+ itself for
 everyone, rather than just fixing up Evolution. 

In the general case of course that's true, but where GTK+ is hell-bent
on making its widgets harder to use and actively *resists* all attempts
to improve it back to how it used to be, we end up having to do things
for ourselves.

Or are you suggesting that we could provide a new GTK+
GtkCrackFreeFileChooser widget available for everyone? I think that
would meet with the same resistance from the GTK+ folks.

-- 
dwmw2


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Re: [Evolution-hackers] Return back folder remember for Open/Save dialog

2012-07-23 Thread David Woodhouse
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 09:19 -0400, Matthew Barnes wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 14:47 +0200, Milan Crha wrote:
  Well, they do not do it right, and this kind of outsourcing proved to
  be problematic in the past, thus why to rely on something nonworking
  with not our fault, ask them to fix it explanation? I always thought
  we do software for people, not people for software.
 
 Consistency with other GTK+ applications is more important.
 
 If GtkFileChooser has chosen a bad policy, try and open a discussion
 with Federico about it.  Don't just circumvent the policy.  I would
 consider that a regression.

I strongly disagree that consistency with other Gtk+ applications is
more important than basic usability. The GtkFileChooser is just
stunningly broken — and by accepting its stupidity wholesale, that means
that Evolution has regressed in usability.

I agree with Milan that we should switch back to how we were doing
things before.

-- 
dwmw2


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Re: [Evolution-hackers] Return back folder remember for Open/Save dialog

2012-07-23 Thread Philip Withnall
On Mon, 2012-07-23 at 11:04 +0100, David Woodhouse wrote:
 I strongly disagree that consistency with other Gtk+ applications is
 more important than basic usability. The GtkFileChooser is just
 stunningly broken — and by accepting its stupidity wholesale, that means
 that Evolution has regressed in usability.
 
 I agree with Milan that we should switch back to how we were doing
 things before.

That effort would better be put into improving GTK+ itself for everyone,
rather than just fixing up Evolution.

Philip

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Re: [Evolution-hackers] Return back folder remember for Open/Save dialog

2012-07-03 Thread Milan Crha
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 09:19 -0400, Matthew Barnes wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 14:47 +0200, Milan Crha wrote:
  Well, they do not do it right, and this kind of outsourcing proved to
  be problematic in the past, thus why to rely on something nonworking
  with not our fault, ask them to fix it explanation? I always thought
  we do software for people, not people for software.
 
 Consistency with other GTK+ applications is more important.
 
 If GtkFileChooser has chosen a bad policy, try and open a discussion
 with Federico about it.  Don't just circumvent the policy.  I would
 consider that a regression.

I'm sorry, I do not follow. The opened bug in gtk+ has basically no
attention from developers of gtk, only more and more users are claiming
in basically no usefulness. Consistency of being broken for users is
not the best thing, is it? Do not take me wrong, I'm not entirely
against this, but until it'll do what we (and users) expect from it,
there is no single point to adapt it.

I'm really scared of time when FireFox will even try to be consistent in
this way. I save files from FireFox rather often, same as I upload
files, and have preselected the last used folder is crucial for me.
Evolution, in this certain case, is the same thing as FireFox for me.

Maybe I should start this thread on evolution-list, to see response from
users, than from developers.
Milan

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[Evolution-hackers] Return back folder remember for Open/Save dialog

2012-07-02 Thread Milan Crha
Hi,
I propose to return back the feature of remembering last used folder for
Open/Save dialogs, which was removed recently [1]. I follow the
duplicate bug and people are very unhappy with the gtk+ feature of
Recently used, not talking that this thing doesn't make sense in
evolution. It's not that many code for evolution, and costs absolutely
no maintenance, but gives a very nice feature for Evolution users (I
dislike current behaviour too, because I rarely want to import the same
file multiple times (not taking that the file is usually missing in the
list of recently used anyway, or is hard to find there)), thus, I
believe, it'll be much better if the feature of remembering the last
used folder will be returned back.

Is there any objection? If not, then I'll revert the mentioned commit in
sources next week or so.
Bye,
Milan

[1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=674600#c1


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Re: [Evolution-hackers] Return back folder remember for Open/Save dialog

2012-07-02 Thread Matthew Barnes
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 09:12 +0200, Milan Crha wrote:
 Is there any objection? If not, then I'll revert the mentioned commit in
 sources next week or so.

Please don't.  GTK+ claims to handle this now, we should defer to them
so our Open/Save dialogs behave consistently with other GTK+ apps.  If
the policy they've chosen is unpopular, that's their problem to deal
with.  Please do not override it.

Matt

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Re: [Evolution-hackers] Return back folder remember for Open/Save dialog

2012-07-02 Thread Matthew Barnes
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 14:47 +0200, Milan Crha wrote:
 Well, they do not do it right, and this kind of outsourcing proved to
 be problematic in the past, thus why to rely on something nonworking
 with not our fault, ask them to fix it explanation? I always thought
 we do software for people, not people for software.

Consistency with other GTK+ applications is more important.

If GtkFileChooser has chosen a bad policy, try and open a discussion
with Federico about it.  Don't just circumvent the policy.  I would
consider that a regression.

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